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New HTPC
Because Rym took the Mac mini, I've been in the market for a new living room computer.
I know we've recommended the Mac mini in the past, but it has some limitations. It's small and quiet, yes. But it has problems as well. If I want to say, play emulated NES games with wireless XBox 360 controllers, Mac mini isn't going to cut it. I could use boot camp to put Windows on there, but how well will the mini display port? Speaking of which, Mac mini also requires getting special A/V cables to connect to the TV. I also just don't want to give Apple any more money
Then I considered getting the ASUS eee box 1501. It's basically a netbook without a screen. The key is that this has the NVidia ION chips in it, so despite being underpowered, it can actually play some high definition video with GPU accelleration. It's really awesome at running Boxee, and such. But still, it won't be able to do certain things. For example, if I buy a game on Steam, like Trine, I can't really play that on here with three people at 1080p resolutions.
Then I dicovered the Dell Inspiron Zino HD. It's basically Dell's Mac mini. It's nice and small, and has HDMI and everything. The only problem is that it has AMD/ATi parts. I know you're going to get all fanboy on me about not wanting that, but hear me out. The thing here is that NVidia and Adobe are in bed. When it comes to watching Flash videos, NVidia has the GPU acceleration going on, and ATi doesn't. Also, Boxee
NVidia. The world is moving away from Flash slowly, but it's still here right now, and I don't know if the Zino has the horsepower to get the job done.
Now I'm considering just making a computer, as usual. The benefit of this is that the compute will be able to do ANYTHING. Crazy HD, crazy surround sound, Steam games on the TV with XBox controllers, everything I need. The downsides are that it will be big compared to the alternatives. MicroATX size probably. It might also be a few hundred dollars more, but I'll be getting a lot more horsepower in exchange. It might also be less quiet, but I can buy quiet parts on purpose.
What do you people think of <a href="http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=10449254">this computer?
It's somewhat small. Should be quiet. Only marginally more expensive than the Mac mini, but has much more horsepower. Also, I've got my SoundBlaster X-Fi sound card in my desktop that I will move over to this one. That will allow me to route the optical audio through it before sending it out to the sound system for awesome surround-ness and such.
So what say you? Mac mini with boot camp? Net-top? Dell Zino? Build my own? Something else?
I know we've recommended the Mac mini in the past, but it has some limitations. It's small and quiet, yes. But it has problems as well. If I want to say, play emulated NES games with wireless XBox 360 controllers, Mac mini isn't going to cut it. I could use boot camp to put Windows on there, but how well will the mini display port? Speaking of which, Mac mini also requires getting special A/V cables to connect to the TV. I also just don't want to give Apple any more money
Then I considered getting the ASUS eee box 1501. It's basically a netbook without a screen. The key is that this has the NVidia ION chips in it, so despite being underpowered, it can actually play some high definition video with GPU accelleration. It's really awesome at running Boxee, and such. But still, it won't be able to do certain things. For example, if I buy a game on Steam, like Trine, I can't really play that on here with three people at 1080p resolutions.
Then I dicovered the Dell Inspiron Zino HD. It's basically Dell's Mac mini. It's nice and small, and has HDMI and everything. The only problem is that it has AMD/ATi parts. I know you're going to get all fanboy on me about not wanting that, but hear me out. The thing here is that NVidia and Adobe are in bed. When it comes to watching Flash videos, NVidia has the GPU acceleration going on, and ATi doesn't. Also, Boxee
NVidia. The world is moving away from Flash slowly, but it's still here right now, and I don't know if the Zino has the horsepower to get the job done.Now I'm considering just making a computer, as usual. The benefit of this is that the compute will be able to do ANYTHING. Crazy HD, crazy surround sound, Steam games on the TV with XBox controllers, everything I need. The downsides are that it will be big compared to the alternatives. MicroATX size probably. It might also be a few hundred dollars more, but I'll be getting a lot more horsepower in exchange. It might also be less quiet, but I can buy quiet parts on purpose.
What do you people think of <a href="http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=10449254">this computer?
It's somewhat small. Should be quiet. Only marginally more expensive than the Mac mini, but has much more horsepower. Also, I've got my SoundBlaster X-Fi sound card in my desktop that I will move over to this one. That will allow me to route the optical audio through it before sending it out to the sound system for awesome surround-ness and such.
So what say you? Mac mini with boot camp? Net-top? Dell Zino? Build my own? Something else?
Comments
I prefer the build it yourself option, just easier to handle when things break. I'd recommend this video card as it's short like the card you selected and pretty much the best bang for your buck, but you're just gonna hate because it's ATI. So instead I'll recommend this card, which is 2-3 times as powerful as the one you selected.
As for power, 1080P is a lot of pixels.
Also, the Acer AspireRevo seems a good and silent choice if you make a few tweaks (add some more RAM, maybe a larger HD if you're not streaming) and are willing to drop $200-$330.
Right then, feel free to push some moneys into Uncle Steve's pocket.
Lifehacker did a little How-to regarding this.
What makes it tough is that for my needs, I have a balancing act to make. Maybe I'll just give up on trying to play Steam games on the TV, and just stick to the video watching. As long as I go with Windows instead of OSX, even if it's a Mac mini, I'll be able to play plenty of non graphics intensive games and such.
Scott, if you believe size is the most important aspect of the card, you should first note that the GT 220 you chose is actually not very small. AMD's newest offerings, the HD 5450 and 5570, are low-profile cards and much smaller. Here's a quote from AnandTech's HD 5570 review: Personally, I wouldn't bother with low-profile, but the HD 5570 will probably give you sufficient performance for 1080p gaming if you keep the settings as low as possible and don't play Crysis. Unfortunately, though they covered the HTPC aspects well, AnandTech's review didn't have tests without AA and maximum quality settings, so check out the Tom's Hardware review for those. It seems that the HD 5570 is powerful enough for 1080p on a game like Left 4 Dead, which isn't demanding.
If low-profile isn't essential (which seems to be the case given that you already chose the GT 220), then I wouldn't recommend these two; there are a couple of options to consider. The previously mentioned AnandTech review has power and noise charts, and based on those the GT 220, GT 240 and the HD 5670 should be considered. The GT 220 you picked is a pretty good cheaper option, and the GT 240 offers a lot more performance for another ~$25, but that card is heavily outclassed by the HD 5670 for ~$15 more. The HD 5670 is still a single-slot card, rather quiet, and gets its power solely from the PCIe slot. In fact, it's similar in size to your chosen GT 220. In my opinion, it's the best card on the market for a small gaming-capable HTPC.Yes, this card is comparable to the 9800 GT, which is a card Scott is definitely familiar with. As mentioned above, there's a "green" version of that card which also is powered only by the PCIe slot, and is also worth a look.
If you step up to dual-slot cards, the HD 5750 is probably the weakest card that will do well at 1080p once you start to turn up the quality settings, while still being relatively quiet and low in power consumption.
On the other hand, if you mostly drop the gaming requirement, the HD 5450 is well worth considering. According to AnandTech's review:The most notable aspect here is that it's passively cooled.
Overall, I'd say that AMD's new HD 5xxx series of cards, even the higher-end ones, all offer almost unprecedented low levels of power consumption and noise at various levels of performance, as well as a whole new range of features. At the same time, however, the performance overall isn't much of a step up from the previous generation within similar price ranges - for example, the aging HD 4850 is probably still the best card on the market in terms of performance per dollar.
So, one might ask, what is it that makes these new cards more efficient? The answer is, in fact, rather obvious. All of AMD's new HD 5xxx series are 40nm cards, as are Nvidia's GeForce 210, GT 220 and GT 240. Overall, since efficiency seems to be the most critical factor to Scott, I would definitely say that these are the cards he ought to look at.
Here's all the relevant 40nm cards in, roughly speaking, order of performance, with current approximate market prices:
Nvidia GeForce 210 ~$40
AMD Radeon HD 5450 ~$50
Nvidia GeForce GT 220 ~$60
AMD Radeon HD 5570 ~$85
Nvidia GeForce GT 240 ~$85
AMD Radeon HD 5670 ~$100
AMD Radeon HD 5750 ~$140
So, Scott, what are your thoughts on the HD 5450, 5570 and 5670?
As for the requirements, you also have to keep in mind that they're probably for a lower resolution like 1024x768, which, as I stated before, is 2.64 times less pixels than 1080p.
Consequently, you should consider slightly more powerful cards such as the HD 5570 and GT 220 from the newer generation, and the HD 4650 and HD 4670 from the previous generation of Radeons (older GeForce cards aren't really up to scratch as HTPC cards). The HD 4650 is ~$50 and so it's your cheapest option. The GT 220 DDR2 will offer a similar level of performance for ~$60, but with less power usage. A DDR3 version will cost you closer to ~$70, offering a little more power, but for that price you can get an HD 4670, which is a more powerful card but still relatively low in power usage. The HD 5570 is overpriced at ~$85, unless you really want a low-profile card, or want the features AMD offers.
Considering that all of the cards I've discussed are quite efficient, then based on this Newegg search, these are great deals, if you can count on the rebates:
$43 after $20 rebate:- MSI GeForce GT 220 512MB DDR2
$70 after $20 rebate: ECS Geforce GT 240 512MB GDDR5
$85 after $10 rebate: Powercolor Radeon HD 5670 512MB GDDR5
It would seem that the best deals with rebates up until the 5670 are Nvidia cards.
However, here's some cards that I think Scott should strongly consider, based on his already demonstrated inclinations towards the quietest cards possible. All of these are passively cooled and ought to be good enough to run Trine. On the other hand, if you're willing to sacrifice on the ability to play Trine, then quite honestly you don't need a discrete graphics card in the first place. Just get get sufficiently powerful integrated graphics and you ought to save some money; Nvidia's ION would be essentially optimal, unless there's a specific feature you're looking for that ION doesn't provide.
Apple markups are ridiculous.