I'm about to graduate from James Madison University with a BS in Writing, Rhetoric, and Technical Communication myself. I don't think Virginia is very well school-wise because we're so NOVA heavy, but I'm thankful to have graduated from a school that has lately been on the rise.
I'm about to graduate from James Madison University with a BS in Writing, Rhetoric, and Technical Communication myself. I don't think Virginia is very well school-wise because we're so NOVA heavy, but I'm thankful to have graduated from a school that has lately been on the rise.
You mean apart for VT, UVA, George Mason, Hampden-Sydney, and William and Mary? I don't know how you can say Virginia isn't well school-wise.
So, I've decided I'm not going to college yet. I want to go into pop music, and there are only a handful of schools with programs in that field in the world, and all of them are too prestigious for Mr 1.7 GPA. I'm going to give myself 5 years or so to make it on my own, by which point I should have built up enough of a career to be wanted by those few schools -- that is, if I'm not living my dream rock n roll life by then.
Knowing this forum, I know you guys will try to talk me out of this plan, so bring on the arguments.
So, I've decided I'm not going to college yet. I want to go into pop music, and there are only a handful of schools with programs in that field in the world, and all of them are too prestigious for Mr 1.7 GPA. I'm going to give myself 5 years or so to make it on my own, by which point I should have built up enough of a career to be wanted by those few schools -- that is, if I'm not living my dream rock n roll life by then.
Knowing this forum, I know you guys will try to talk me out of this plan, so bring on the arguments.
If you build enough of a career without going to college, the schools won't suddenly want you to come there. School is for people who do not have careers, or want to change careers, not people who have them already.
Also, unless you fully realize and accept the reality that your chances of success are in lottery ticket territory. You also need to accept that you will be dirt poor, and/or fully dependent on others, for a very long time. If you understand both those things, go for it. You just have to accept it now so that when you are suffering a few years from now you can not complain or make excuses, because you chose that path of your own free will. As we always say to anyone who suggests some crazy plan "that's all you."
With the field I'm going into, my chances are in lottery ticket territory regardless of whether I have a degree or not. Taylor Swift and Gary Clark Jr made it big without going to college (hell, Taylor got a contract when she was even younger than me), whereas Laura Stevenson and Andrew Jackson Jihad did go, and still haven't made it big. Higher education doesn't count for much in the world of pop music.
This is also why I'm okay with being dirt poor -- I'll be dirt poor for some number of years in order to do what I love, so I don't see why putting student loans on top of that poverty would be useful.
I've always been of the mentality that having a college degree is basically a must unless you already have some momentum in music creation. You also need to be extremely aggressive in seeking opportunities and building your sound. Its almost all about being unique in some way or having a good understanding of crafting songs. Oftentimes a lot of bands or groups happen to get lucky with a single. Build a local following and make it strong. There are a LOT of factors in being successful from having raw talent to being great at networking.
Looking at the fact that people became successful without going to college is somewhat foolish. There are a lot of musicians that are somewhat successful without going to college, but there are a thousand times more that are not successful. As I said previously I believe getting a degree is a better option as it will allow you to network with people who have similar aspirations. That can happen out of college but people are conveniently all in the same location AT college. Also realize that there are salaried positions where you can make music for media. Perhaps consider those?
On top of all this keep in mind this scenario. A coworker of mine has a passion for doing theatre but he realized early on that the chances of him making a career out of it were very slim. So he's a software developer by trade and has a production group that has put on at least two productions and mentored a couple others in the area. He can do two things he likes and software developers make a hell of a lot more than many musicians.
That being said its really up to you, but I would warn you to consider this as thoroughly as you possibly can.
Looking at the fact that people became successful without going to college is somewhat foolish. There are a lot of musicians that are somewhat successful without going to college, but there are a thousand times more that are not successful.
My point wasn't that I will be successful if I don't go to college, my point was that it doesn't help my odds significantly in the crap shoot called music business.
On top of all this keep in mind this scenario. A coworker of mine has a passion for doing theatre but he realized early on that the chances of him making a career out of it were very slim. So he's a software developer by trade and has a production group that has put on at least two productions and mentored a couple others in the area. He can do two things he likes and software developers make a hell of a lot more than many musicians.
I don't care much for money if it gets in the way of doing what I love. If I have to live out of my tour bus, but I can spend all day all year on my music, I'll be content.
That being said its really up to you, but I would warn you to consider this as thoroughly as you possibly can.
This isn't just another of my midnight ramblings. I've been thinking about this for months -- basically since I got rejected from every school I applied to.
You would be astounded how far networking can get you. It could possibly boost your career off the ground fast especially with parties which you could play at. You may also realize you really enjoy something when you explore stuff at college. It's an opportunity that will be different the longer you leave it. I'm not talking you out of it, I had considered leaving college at a point to pursue rapping after some mild internet success with a few songs and my brother has been trying to do the music thing for a couple years now. I'm just trying to give you the bigger picture so you can figure it out. There's a lot of things people assume about college, some of which I don't think my brother realized until after dropping out on two occasions. It may not have been for him but it's difficult to tell if you're not in that position.
I don't care much for money if it gets in the way of doing what I love. If I have to live out of my tour bus, but I can spend all day all year on my music, I'll be content.
This is the part you seem to be misguided on. Without money you can't spend all day all year on music. I sure would love to spend all day all year on geekery, but I can't. Why? Money is mandatory to live. I don't ever want to be rich, but I want to be able to eat food. I want to be able to get medical care if I need it.
How do you expect to get a tour bus, fuel it, fuel your body with food, buy instruments, have a phone, etc. if you do not have any money whatsoever? At minimum you're going to have to work some menial job like Starbucks or something. Oh, but then you won't be doing music all day every day.
Statistically speaking, people who have bachelor's degrees, regardless of other factors, have better lives. This is despite student debt.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, people who graduate with bachelor’s degrees will earn nearly twice as much over the course of their careers as those who complete only high school. College grads earn $2.1 million in lifetime income compared with $1.2 million for high school grads. The cost of four years’ tuition for a public school amounts to approximately $28,000 and for private school is about $100,000. Even if they go with the more expensive educational option, college grads net on average an extra $800,000 in lifetime earnings.
College also prepares you for a well-rounded and healthful life (e.g., college grads smoke less, exercise more, and are twice as likely to engage in volunteer work). The social networks developed in college have lifelong personal and professional benefits. A college education dramatically increases the probability of finding a job that you enjoy.
The catch is that you have to actually graduate. If you go to college, but fail to graduate, you don't see any of these benefits. All you get is the debt.
And don't think you have to go to a fancy school either. A bachelor's degree from community college is not only much cheaper, it works just as well.
You also have to consider that most people who do music all day every day are not stars. The music industry, even in its state of disrepair, supports a lot of jobs. People who own music shops, instrument repair specialists, audio technicians, songwriters, lyricists, DJs, promoters, talent scouts, etc. Most of the jobs in music are not to be a star. Such jobs are actually not very improbable to get at all, as long as you have a degree. As a college graduate, it will not be hard to walk into one of those kinds of jobs.
Having a job like that will allow you to do music all day every day, and have money. It will also put you in a much more likely position to achieve stardom as you will have contacts in the industry. You will be heard by at least the people near you. You can find out if you're going to make it while also being able to eat food at the same time.
You also say you are not paying that much to make friends. That's incredibly foolish and also sounds hypocritical. You say you don't care about money, so what do you care about spending so much of it? Also, you are vastly undervaluing friends. Almost everything I have now only exists because of college. This podcast, this forum, is all here only because college is a place where like-minded individuals come together. I went to RIT because there would be other nerds there, and there were. And now a decade later, we are still together.
When you're in high school, the other people are there because they happen to live near you. You have nothing in common but geography. If you go to college, you will be with people just like you. Entire classrooms full of like-minded people. Your band mates are waiting for you there. If you don't show up, they'll form that band without you. They'll get gigs at all the clubs and bars near the school. They'll be on the college radio station. They'll have tons and tons of time to comfortably practice and record together since college classes take up a lot less than 40 hours a week you would spend working a menial job. They'll be recording for free with the high end equipment in the college's studio for free. You'll be trying to scrape up enough to get a few hours of studio time.
Colleges are very bad at selling themselves. They talk all about the education they are offering. That's not the reason to go there. You can get that education from books, the Internet, etc. You're paying to be in an environment where things can happen which can not happen elsewhere. You're also paying for a piece of paper that magically makes the rest of your life dramatically easier.
If you listen to he Alton Browncast archives they had a series of interviews with people who helped him go on tour and how not only they get there but what they actually did when it comesto concerts. I'd suggest listening to those.
Don't disregard community college to get your academics to a point where you could go somewhere more "prestigious". Many successiful people safe a lot of money going two years at Community college and still get the same degree I got at the same school ultimately but saved 40k.
If you're not that big on going to college (or at least can't get into a college that has the degree you want based on your GPA, etc.), it's still probably a good idea to go to college of some sort as a backup plan. Failing that, at least go to a trade school or something. So okay, you want to be a pop star and don't want to be middle management or a cubicle drone or anything like that. Well, as Rym and Scott have said in the past, "being a plumber doesn't suck."
I get that music is your dream. However, you're going to need some way to bankroll your dream unless you're damned lucky. A college degree or at least certification in a useful trade is probably the best way to have a good backup plan. Pick an academic area you're interested in and attend one of the less expensive state schools available to you such as Bridgewater State or UMass Dartmouth, for example. Or if you really, really don't like the idea of a traditional college degree/education, find a good trade school and get certified/licensed in two or so years as a plumber/carpenter/electrician/mechanic/etc. Practice your music in the evenings/weekends when you're not studying. Maybe you'll meet some folks at school who would want to join you in a band or whatever. Lots of colleges also give an opportunity for you to perform at student unions and whatnot to try to get some exposure.
You would be astounded how far networking can get you. It could possibly boost your career off the ground fast especially with parties which you could play at.
I've actually already got a few connections I plan on using, actually. Old friends of my paternal grandfather. I'm not delusional enough to think that that will make my career entirely, but it'll certainly give me a good head start.
This is the part you seem to be misguided on. Without money you can't spend all day all year on music. I sure would love to spend all day all year on geekery, but I can't. Why? Money is mandatory to live. I don't ever want to be rich, but I want to be able to eat food. I want to be able to get medical care if I need it.
How do you expect to get a tour bus, fuel it, fuel your body with food, buy instruments, have a phone, etc. if you do not have any money whatsoever? At minimum you're going to have to work some menial job like Starbucks or something. Oh, but then you won't be doing music all day every day.
I get that I'll need a day job for a little while. The people who didn't need day jobs (Bruce Springsteen, Taylor Swift, Keith Richards, just to name a few) started playing way younger than me, so they were able to make enough connections to support themselves while they were still in high school.
Pick an academic area you're interested in and attend one of the less expensive state schools available to you such as Bridgewater State or UMass Dartmouth, for example.
I have considered having my backup plan be a History Professor, but that's a lot of time in academia before I can actually get said back up plan.
You also have to consider that most people who do music all day every day are not stars. The music industry, even in its state of disrepair, supports a lot of jobs. People who own music shops, instrument repair specialists, audio technicians, songwriters, lyricists, DJs, promoters, talent scouts, etc. Most of the jobs in music are not to be a star. Such jobs are actually not very improbable to get at all, as long as you have a degree. As a college graduate, it will not be hard to walk into one of those kinds of jobs.
This is the most compelling argument you guys are putting forth. I understand that until I become an act of my own, I'm going to need to do a lot of work for other acts in the industry.
The difficult thing to convey to you, and I've dealt with this before trying to talk to my brother, is that you sorta don't know what you're talking about. While you think you have it figured out you'll figure it out a lot more in practice. In reality, since you seem very dedicated to it, you might as well just go through what you're planning. It will either succeed or it'll fail. None of us will be able to persuade you otherwise since we've had the experience of going to college. It's easy to talk about the benefits of going to college after you've gone to college. You have not. Also none of us have a strong presence in the music scene so we can't offer that perspective. I have a feeling it would take a lot of convincing to persuade you otherwise, way beyond the scope of typing out a post. So I say go for it.
Being a History Professor is not a backup plan. It's highly unlikely you'll be able to find a job in that field unless you dedicate yourself 100% to it.
Duly noted. I'll come up with some other back up plan.
Being a high school history teacher is fairly close to the history professor backup plan (assuming you care more about the educating part and less about the research part) and is a much easier field to get into.
Duly noted. I'll come up with some other back up plan.
Being a high school history teacher is fairly close to the history professor backup plan (assuming you care more about the educating part and less about the research part) and is a much easier field to get into.
I don't like that as an option now, but once I've got a few years between me and all my bad High School memories, I might feel differently.
Duly noted. I'll come up with some other back up plan.
Being a high school history teacher is fairly close to the history professor backup plan (assuming you care more about the educating part and less about the research part) and is a much easier field to get into.
I don't like that as an option now, but once I've got a few years between me and all my bad High School memories, I might feel differently.
It's funny... as someone who subbed in high school only a couple of years after graduating from high school, I noticed the point of view is very different as a teacher than as a student. Granted, I don't know your particular situation and what the root causes of your bad high school memories were, so I'm not sure if that change in perspective would matter in your case or not. Plus, all the kids try to push your buttons (at least that was my experience) as a sub -- even more so if you're a sub who's only a couple of years older than they were.
Locksmithing is great. I'm getting a degree, but if I end up a locksmith instead of a scientist I think I'll be okay with that. It's really complex, interesting work that never feels pointless or impractical like academia so often does.
Locksmithing is great. I'm getting a degree, but if I end up a locksmith instead of a scientist I think I'll be okay with that. It's really complex, interesting work that never feels pointless or impractical like academia so often does.
Locksmiths make mad moneys. Someone locks themselves out of their house, and you get hundreds of dollars!
The more esoteric the trade the more money you can make if you plan correctly.
Hanging drywall can get you some decent money but to apply plaster over lathe for people who want to properly restore an old house? You can make huge money if you are willing to move close to areas that experiencing historic renovation revivals.
Same with plumbers and appliance repair. You can make a very good living as a tradesman.
Comments
Knowing this forum, I know you guys will try to talk me out of this plan, so bring on the arguments.
Also, unless you fully realize and accept the reality that your chances of success are in lottery ticket territory. You also need to accept that you will be dirt poor, and/or fully dependent on others, for a very long time. If you understand both those things, go for it. You just have to accept it now so that when you are suffering a few years from now you can not complain or make excuses, because you chose that path of your own free will. As we always say to anyone who suggests some crazy plan "that's all you."
This is also why I'm okay with being dirt poor -- I'll be dirt poor for some number of years in order to do what I love, so I don't see why putting student loans on top of that poverty would be useful.
A degree is also a safety net of sorts.
There will be music people at college.
I'm not saying college is for everyone, but it beats proceeding directly into music.
Looking at the fact that people became successful without going to college is somewhat foolish. There are a lot of musicians that are somewhat successful without going to college, but there are a thousand times more that are not successful. As I said previously I believe getting a degree is a better option as it will allow you to network with people who have similar aspirations. That can happen out of college but people are conveniently all in the same location AT college. Also realize that there are salaried positions where you can make music for media. Perhaps consider those?
On top of all this keep in mind this scenario. A coworker of mine has a passion for doing theatre but he realized early on that the chances of him making a career out of it were very slim. So he's a software developer by trade and has a production group that has put on at least two productions and mentored a couple others in the area. He can do two things he likes and software developers make a hell of a lot more than many musicians.
That being said its really up to you, but I would warn you to consider this as thoroughly as you possibly can.
How do you expect to get a tour bus, fuel it, fuel your body with food, buy instruments, have a phone, etc. if you do not have any money whatsoever? At minimum you're going to have to work some menial job like Starbucks or something. Oh, but then you won't be doing music all day every day.
Statistically speaking, people who have bachelor's degrees, regardless of other factors, have better lives. This is despite student debt. The catch is that you have to actually graduate. If you go to college, but fail to graduate, you don't see any of these benefits. All you get is the debt.
And don't think you have to go to a fancy school either. A bachelor's degree from community college is not only much cheaper, it works just as well.
You also have to consider that most people who do music all day every day are not stars. The music industry, even in its state of disrepair, supports a lot of jobs. People who own music shops, instrument repair specialists, audio technicians, songwriters, lyricists, DJs, promoters, talent scouts, etc. Most of the jobs in music are not to be a star. Such jobs are actually not very improbable to get at all, as long as you have a degree. As a college graduate, it will not be hard to walk into one of those kinds of jobs.
Having a job like that will allow you to do music all day every day, and have money. It will also put you in a much more likely position to achieve stardom as you will have contacts in the industry. You will be heard by at least the people near you. You can find out if you're going to make it while also being able to eat food at the same time.
You also say you are not paying that much to make friends. That's incredibly foolish and also sounds hypocritical. You say you don't care about money, so what do you care about spending so much of it? Also, you are vastly undervaluing friends. Almost everything I have now only exists because of college. This podcast, this forum, is all here only because college is a place where like-minded individuals come together. I went to RIT because there would be other nerds there, and there were. And now a decade later, we are still together.
When you're in high school, the other people are there because they happen to live near you. You have nothing in common but geography. If you go to college, you will be with people just like you. Entire classrooms full of like-minded people. Your band mates are waiting for you there. If you don't show up, they'll form that band without you. They'll get gigs at all the clubs and bars near the school. They'll be on the college radio station. They'll have tons and tons of time to comfortably practice and record together since college classes take up a lot less than 40 hours a week you would spend working a menial job. They'll be recording for free with the high end equipment in the college's studio for free. You'll be trying to scrape up enough to get a few hours of studio time.
Colleges are very bad at selling themselves. They talk all about the education they are offering. That's not the reason to go there. You can get that education from books, the Internet, etc. You're paying to be in an environment where things can happen which can not happen elsewhere. You're also paying for a piece of paper that magically makes the rest of your life dramatically easier.
Don't disregard community college to get your academics to a point where you could go somewhere more "prestigious". Many successiful people safe a lot of money going two years at Community college and still get the same degree I got at the same school ultimately but saved 40k.
I get that music is your dream. However, you're going to need some way to bankroll your dream unless you're damned lucky. A college degree or at least certification in a useful trade is probably the best way to have a good backup plan. Pick an academic area you're interested in and attend one of the less expensive state schools available to you such as Bridgewater State or UMass Dartmouth, for example. Or if you really, really don't like the idea of a traditional college degree/education, find a good trade school and get certified/licensed in two or so years as a plumber/carpenter/electrician/mechanic/etc. Practice your music in the evenings/weekends when you're not studying. Maybe you'll meet some folks at school who would want to join you in a band or whatever. Lots of colleges also give an opportunity for you to perform at student unions and whatnot to try to get some exposure.
Hanging drywall can get you some decent money but to apply plaster over lathe for people who want to properly restore an old house? You can make huge money if you are willing to move close to areas that experiencing historic renovation revivals.
Same with plumbers and appliance repair. You can make a very good living as a tradesman.