Okay, so, someone I know through the internet who is very important to me is having trouble understanding how to pay for college. He's convinced that tuition is too high for him to go to anywhere outside of his homestate, Texas. He has a 3.9 GPA, no SATs yet (he's only a junior), and is already taking college courses at his local community college. I've told him about my friends with their 3.2-7 GPAs getting full rides to NYU and Hofstra, but he refuses to listen to me, because I don't know anything about the opportunities for him, because my expertise is in small easy to get into Liberal Arts colleges, and he wants to go to a big, high quality, science heavy school. Do you all have any advice for him?
Clearly the person is not as smart as their GPA suggests. If someone refuses to believe true statements you tell them, they can't be reasoned with. Even if it is the truth, they don't want to believe it, and you can't make them.
He's not stupid, he's uninformed. He lives in a small town where not a lot of people go to college. He isn't in a place where he can easily learn these things.
He's not stupid, he's uninformed. He lives in a small town where not a lot of people go to college. He isn't in a place where he can easily learn these things.
But you told him. He didn't believe you. You think telling him again will change something?
It's harder to get into an in-state school than an out-of-state school. In-state-schools want as many out-of-state students as they can legally get: those kids pay a lot more (either directly or through third party scholarships).
Also, he needs to know what specific degree he wants to get before he looks at any schools.
For undergrad, astronomy and physics programs are largely interchangeable. It's usually like "physics B.S. plus these other 3 classes".
UT-Austin does have a good program.
Either this or he does an Undergrad in Physics which many schools should be adept at and then decide whether he wants to finish it up with astrophysics or astronomy. The entrance requirements for this type of degree are rather low (relative to most of the BSc majors in Australia), I wouldn't think the US is too different on the scaling based on the other majors I've looked into in the past.
Also this will help him understand or get some knowledge on what percentage of graduates continue to do research vs those that apply their study and what he wants to do. e.g. If there are limited application jobs and many research jobs but he hates research, he may be better of not doing Astronomy and do something related.
I am currently thinking about colleges. I am almost certainly going to a liberal arts college (probably Earlham or Grinnell). However, I am not sure what I want to do (career wise). I'm really studious and intelligent in the humanities and I'm considering either academia or law.
Law because I'm good at writing, debating, studying, and interested in politics. In particular I am interested in regulatory law as unfettered capitalism really disturbs me and I want big companies to be held responsible for their crimes. I mention all this because law doesn't interest me just because of the high pay, but also because I am passionate about it.
Academia because I love being surrounded by ideas. Reading books and writing about literature and culture are immensely enjoyable for me. The big trade off is that it is even more difficult to find a job in it, and even a good tenure track position is only like 80k a year. Law on the other hand is more pay, but slavish hours.
These aren't the only options I'm thinking of, but they seem the most realistic at this time.
I am also good at writing, debating, studying and I have an interest in politics - these things should not determine what you study they are just good utilities to have.
If you don't have a clear idea, don't commit to university. If you eventually find that you want to be something specific that requires the degree, then go to university.
Also with law be prepared to be a personal assistant and/or do menial work for a number of years before being on a lawyer's income. There are more slavish hours then law that get paid less.
Law is also basically full, you have to be incredibly good at your job to get the salary that you want.
This is all 2nd hand from a friend who is a lawyer.
If you're interested in law then I'd recommend an internship or paid grunt work with a firm or public legal office (DA, PD, DoJ, etc.) to get a feel for what actually working in the field is like. It wont be 100% analogous, but it will help.
If you don't know yet I strongly suggest going to the nearest community college. Saves you money and you can try a whole bunch of things to see if something sticks.
If you don't have a clear idea, don't commit to university. If you eventually find that you want to be something specific that requires the degree, then go to university.
I don't mean to sound presumptuous, but higher education has been a fundamental part of my family for generations now. Getting a liberal arts education is not so much an option as an expectation of me. And I don't mind, I'm just not sure whether I should pick up what seems to be the family trade (Academia) or go into something more trade like. Law would allow me to utilize the skills that college would help refine, whereas academia would allow me to pursue further knowledge through research. Honestly, while I underplayed the importance of money in my initial post, the potential income of lawyers is definitely attractive. My father is an academic and I grew up relatively poor compared to the other middle class kids. Whereas my uncle is a lawyer (partner in fact) and my cousins are pretty wealthy.
If you're interested in law then I'd recommend an internship or paid grunt work with a firm or public legal office (DA, PD, DoJ, etc.) to get a feel for what actually working in the field is like. It wont be 100% analogous, but it will help.
That's a good idea, but I'm currently still in high school. I'll be graduating this year, do internships exist for fresh high school grads?
A large majority of people don't know what they want to do when they go to college. Another portion of those people who do know what they want to do will realize they don't like what they are doing and do something else. Even I, a person who got a computer science degree, actually went in for computer engineering originally. Yeah they're both computers but I was definitely planning on doing more hardware than software. I hated programming when I did it in college but that was mostly because my teacher in high school was shit. I realized I like programming a lot.
Even before that I was going to go in for art/graphic design/etc. I wanted to do concept art for games as my original plan. My dad kinda thought that was a bad idea and took me to a college fair to explore other options. Probably a good idea because if I had gone in for art I probably would have changed pretty quickly. I just didn't realize that I don't like drawing what other people want me to draw.
My girlfriend went in for psychology because she thought that would be interesting and then realized that it was not interesting for more than one class. So she switched to architecture and now I think she wishes she did a business degree for human resources/relations which is what she does now and really likes it. You kinda just need to explore. Yeah the money part kinda sucks but I wouldn't think too much about it now unless you're hemorrhaging money. You'll be paying back a lot either way.
Also I was thinking about doing law based partially on going through LSAT books and playing Phoenix Wright (that's what being a lawyer is like, right?). I had talked to my Government teacher in high school who used to be a lawyer and the stories he told me made it sound like one of the most boring jobs ever. That's super anecdotal but just saying you might want to really research it or get some info from someone who is a lawyer. It is A LOT of paperwork and just filling shit out most of the time.
A large majority of people don't know what they want to do when they go to college. Another portion of those people who do know what they want to do will realize they don't like what they are doing and do something else. Even I, a person who got a computer science degree, actually went in for computer engineering originally. Yeah they're both computers but I was definitely planning on doing more hardware than software. I hated programming when I did it in college but that was mostly because my teacher in high school was shit. I realized I like programming a lot.
I started off with Mechatronics Engineering, and that's the degree I got, but during the course of that I was much more interested in the CompSci aspects of it. It still took me a while to really get things figured out, but now I'm doing a Master's by research in Artificial Intelligence. Granted, the two areas are still pretty closely related, but I'm much more interested in the mathematical/algorithmic side of things than I am in even the software or hardware.
If you don't have a clear idea, don't commit to university. If you eventually find that you want to be something specific that requires the degree, then go to university.
I don't mean to sound presumptuous, but higher education has been a fundamental part of my family for generations now. Getting a liberal arts education is not so much an option as an expectation of me. And I don't mind, I'm just not sure whether I should pick up what seems to be the family trade (Academia) or go into something more trade like. Law would allow me to utilize the skills that college would help refine, whereas academia would allow me to pursue further knowledge through research. Honestly, while I underplayed the importance of money in my initial post, the potential income of lawyers is definitely attractive. My father is an academic and I grew up relatively poor compared to the other middle class kids. Whereas my uncle is a lawyer (partner in fact) and my cousins are pretty wealthy.
Wow so you're basically expected to have a worthless degree? What is liberal arts in current society? A liberal arts degree means you're qualified to work at McDonalds. It's a pretty low expectation to have of your child. Academia is not a trade.
You can attain further knowledge without research.
No one is underplaying the role of money, make sure you earn as much as you can but also have enough free time to enjoy yourself. Just really educate yourself on what you are doing I wasted a number of years in a terribly overpopulated and negative profession because trusted family friends strongly recommended it to me while I was scrambling to decide on what to do at University.
You seem to have already made up your mind and want law, as long as you have educated yourself on the negative aspects of this profession then go for it.
Even before that I was going to go in for art/graphic design/etc. I wanted to do concept art for games as my original plan. My dad kinda thought that was a bad idea and took me to a college fair to explore other options. Probably a good idea because if I had gone in for art I probably would have changed pretty quickly. I just didn't realize that I don't like drawing what other people want me to draw.
I never found those 'college fairs' to be useful personally.
My girlfriend went in for psychology because she thought that would be interesting and then realized that it was not interesting for more than one class. So she switched to architecture and now I think she wishes she did a business degree for human resources/relations which is what she does now and really likes it.
Sounds like pissing away a lot of her parent's money. Do you think she decided on human resources because of her experience with psychology and architecture units? (Hint I heavily doubt it, she just had to give herself sometime to think about it while not pressured.)
Dude it is quite a bit different in America. College degrees are very influential in getting anywhere. Unless you are really smart and dedicated not getting a college degree will limit the jobs you have available severely. This is definitely not the case in Australia.
Also there's no reason in discrediting a college fair. They're completely free and they allow you to talk with people doing those majors. If you already know what you are doing then yeah they may be not useful.
By your logic it is a waste of time getting a CS degree because you can get a job programming if you can show that you know how to.
Wow so you're basically expected to have a worthless degree? What is liberal arts in current society? A liberal arts degree means you're qualified to work at McDonalds. It's a pretty low expectation to have of your child. Academia is not a trade.
You can attain further knowledge without research.
No one is underplaying the role of money, make sure you earn as much as you can but also have enough free time to enjoy yourself. Just really educate yourself on what you are doing I wasted a number of years in a terribly overpopulated and negative profession because trusted family friends strongly recommended it to me while I was scrambling to decide on what to do at University.
You seem to have already made up your mind and want law, as long as you have educated yourself on the negative aspects of this profession then go for it.
Not a liberal arts degree, a Liberal arts college. You don't have to major in English or History by going to a Liberal Arts school. Its just a place to receive an education in a smaller environment. Honestly I was initially quite offended by your misunderstanding and insult of the way I was brought up. My family values education for the sake of being educated; I come from a long line of academics. While not wealthy, none of my family ever had to resort to a low class career option.
After reading the rest of your post I better understand where you are coming from. I don't want to be the first generation in my family to have to struggle for money. Your perspective is quite a realistic one, and therefore appreciated; just please be a bit more accepting of other worldviews.
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Also, he needs to know what specific degree he wants to get before he looks at any schools.
UT-Austin does have a good program.
Also this will help him understand or get some knowledge on what percentage of graduates continue to do research vs those that apply their study and what he wants to do. e.g. If there are limited application jobs and many research jobs but he hates research, he may be better of not doing Astronomy and do something related.
Also, if he doesn't want to go to grad school, a physics degree with comp sci backing it up is gold.
Law because I'm good at writing, debating, studying, and interested in politics. In particular I am interested in regulatory law as unfettered capitalism really disturbs me and I want big companies to be held responsible for their crimes. I mention all this because law doesn't interest me just because of the high pay, but also because I am passionate about it.
Academia because I love being surrounded by ideas. Reading books and writing about literature and culture are immensely enjoyable for me. The big trade off is that it is even more difficult to find a job in it, and even a good tenure track position is only like 80k a year. Law on the other hand is more pay, but slavish hours.
These aren't the only options I'm thinking of, but they seem the most realistic at this time.
If you don't have a clear idea, don't commit to university.
If you eventually find that you want to be something specific that requires the degree, then go to university.
Also with law be prepared to be a personal assistant and/or do menial work for a number of years before being on a lawyer's income.
There are more slavish hours then law that get paid less.
Law is also basically full, you have to be incredibly good at your job to get the salary that you want.
This is all 2nd hand from a friend who is a lawyer.
If you don't know yet I strongly suggest going to the nearest community college. Saves you money and you can try a whole bunch of things to see if something sticks.
Even before that I was going to go in for art/graphic design/etc. I wanted to do concept art for games as my original plan. My dad kinda thought that was a bad idea and took me to a college fair to explore other options. Probably a good idea because if I had gone in for art I probably would have changed pretty quickly. I just didn't realize that I don't like drawing what other people want me to draw.
My girlfriend went in for psychology because she thought that would be interesting and then realized that it was not interesting for more than one class. So she switched to architecture and now I think she wishes she did a business degree for human resources/relations which is what she does now and really likes it. You kinda just need to explore. Yeah the money part kinda sucks but I wouldn't think too much about it now unless you're hemorrhaging money. You'll be paying back a lot either way.
I believe there's quite a lot of that in academia as well.
What is liberal arts in current society? A liberal arts degree means you're qualified to work at McDonalds.
It's a pretty low expectation to have of your child.
Academia is not a trade.
You can attain further knowledge without research.
No one is underplaying the role of money, make sure you earn as much as you can but also have enough free time to enjoy yourself. Just really educate yourself on what you are doing I wasted a number of years in a terribly overpopulated and negative profession because trusted family friends strongly recommended it to me while I was scrambling to decide on what to do at University.
You seem to have already made up your mind and want law, as long as you have educated yourself on the negative aspects of this profession then go for it. Hey if you're fine with throwing away your money that's fine by me. I never found those 'college fairs' to be useful personally. Sounds like pissing away a lot of her parent's money. Do you think she decided on human resources because of her experience with psychology and architecture units? (Hint I heavily doubt it, she just had to give herself sometime to think about it while not pressured.)
Also there's no reason in discrediting a college fair. They're completely free and they allow you to talk with people doing those majors. If you already know what you are doing then yeah they may be not useful.
By your logic it is a waste of time getting a CS degree because you can get a job programming if you can show that you know how to.
And quit being a fucking dick.
After reading the rest of your post I better understand where you are coming from. I don't want to be the first generation in my family to have to struggle for money. Your perspective is quite a realistic one, and therefore appreciated; just please be a bit more accepting of other worldviews.