PAX vs. AB: Thoughts?

Alex Leavitt

Just wanted to see some opinions from those who went to both Anime Boston and PAX East. Did you guys like one over the other? My opinion is that PAX totally rocked AB because of the atmosphere, but I had so many more friends to see at AB that hanging with them beat out major downtimes (due to lines and fill-up panels) at PAX.

Any other thoughts?

George Patches

AB had half the crowds and twice the noise.

Rym

PAX basically blows every other convention we attend out of the water. The panels are better, the events are better, the concerts are better, the vibe is better, the demographics are better (for us: people our age). If I were attending cons as just an attendee (no panels/guest status/whatever), PAX is one of the few I would continue to attend.

Rym

AB had half the crowds and twice the noise.

Several of our panels were interrupted by screaming children (either teakettling at one of the four "OMG Hetalia is gay!" panels or playing Marco Polo outside the door). It was also much more difficult to navigate the hallways at AB compared to PAX.

I like Scott's new policy of ignoring anyone trying to take a cosplay picture mid-hallway. It greatly sped our journeys around the con.

Rochelle

I had so many more friends to see at AB that hanging with them beat out major downtimes (due to lines and fill-up panels) at PAX.

From what I understand of anime cons vs PAX in regards to lines, is that PAX has the Queue Room for the major events. Most anime cons just have people just line up along wall and just keep to themselves.

As PAX, waiting in line isn't as bad. You have entertainment in the Queue room. Most people around you are very easy to just say hi and start a conversation. Other people with DS's would start multiplayer games of Tetris or Mario Kart.

That's what I love about PAX. I can just go up to people, start having a conversation with them, and game. I've met so many new cool people that I've made as contacts on either FB or Twitter that I will pretty much only see at PAX, but be like "Hey, what's up! Let's game!".

Was waiting in line that bad for you? I know it's cool to have friends in line to hang out with, but if I'm by myself, I'll try making new friends to just hang out with and converse with.

The only thing with PAX Panels is they probably need bigger rooms, imo. No matter what, they always seem to fill up.

Rym

The only thing with PAX Panels is they probably need bigger rooms, imo. No matter what, they always seem to fill up.

Our personal goal for the next PAX East is the same number of larger panel rooms. I expect many will still fill. I also want to try and convince them to film every panel. If you miss an awesome one, you could buy the "Panel Pack" DVD alongside the PAX DVD the following year. ^_~

Wyatt

The PAX Staff make the difference. They set the tone for convention.

A PAX by any other name would be just as nerdtastic.

Rochelle

The only thing with PAX Panels is they probably need bigger rooms, imo. No matter what, they always seem to fill up.

Our personal goal for the next PAX East is the same number of larger panel rooms. I expect many will still fill. I also want to try and convince them to film every panel. If you miss an awesome one, you could buy the "Panel Pack" DVD alongside the PAX DVD the following year. ^_~

That's a great idea.

I remember at Sakura Con a few years ago that when cosplay would fill up, they would have a separate room for the overflow to watch the cosplay on a live feed. They also replayed the cosplay on Sunday for those who missed it.

Rym

The PAX Staff make the difference. They set the tone for convention.

Funny story. Talking to the (unnamed) staff of several large geeky conventions at AB, there was universal consensus on the point that Otakon staff are some of the rudest that exist (in terms of their individual interaction with attendees).

Rym

I remember at Sakura Con a few years ago that when cosplay would fill up, they would have a separate room for the overflow to watch the cosplay on a live feed.

Anime Boston did that wonderfully this year. They had a fiber link installed and everything.

Cremlian

you could buy the "Panel Pack" DVD alongside the PAX DVD the following year

Yea, I haven't figured out why conventions have never thought to do this. Completely kills the "You have too many good things scheduled at the same time.

Honestly other then the staff organization, I think the demographics are pretty much the reason why PAX was pretty nice. Gee, all of us late 20's/30's like to hang out with people our own age! GASP!

PAX in my opinion was like Connecticon with a budget and video games swapped with Anime/web-comics.

George Patches

Honestly other then the staff organization, I think the demographics are pretty much the reason why PAX was pretty nice. Gee, all of us late 20's/30's like to hang out with people our own age! GASP!

PAX in my opinion was like Connecticon with a budget and video games swapped out for Anime/web-comics.

*nods

Rym

I think the demographics are pretty much the reason why PAX was pretty nice. Gee, all of us late 20's/30's like to hang out with people our own age! GASP!

I'd wager, though, that if you treated the younger kids at anime cons more like adults, they'd act more like adults. The teenagers at PAX (there were many) were totally chill. The con culture matters more, in my opinion, than the ages themselves. If we could foster a more adult culture at anime cons, then things would change dramatically.

TheWhaleShark

I'd wager, though, that if you treated the younger kids at anime cons more like adults, they'd act more like adults.

Precisely. Otakon, for example, is run by amateurs who act like amateurs, and that creates an amateurish atmosphere. Punk kids will be punk kids. PAX was a professional con that conducted itself professionally, and as a result the congoers upped their game to match the atmosphere.

The way in which a con conducts itself creates a certain unspoken expectation of conduct. You don't need to consult the rules of PAX to know what you should or should not do, because the atmosphere of the con causes you to not be a douchenozzle. At Otakon, everyone's a douche, and so you're more likely to be a douche as well.

I like Scott's new policy of ignoring anyone trying to take a cosplay picture mid-hallway. It greatly sped our journeys around the con.

I find myself doing this more and more. If you're so inconsiderate that you're willing to block up everyone else's progress just to take a goddamn photo, then I have absolutely no qualms about walking right through your space. Get the fuck out of my way, you punk kids.

/bitteroldman

Rym

Otakon, for example, is run by amateurs whoactlike amateurs, and that creates an amateurish atmosphere.

We actually discovered what appears to be an almost anti-professional attitude at Anime Boston (from an attendee, not the staff ;^)). This warrants further investigation.

Basically, Anime Hell (which is awesome) is run super unprofessionally. We know this, and so do they. They fuck up the tech, start late, and basically have no idea what they're doing. The panel is carried entirely by the fact that they are funny guys with good content. It's very popular at anime cons, though that sort of thing wouldn't fly at PAX for obvious reasons. I love their panel, but professionalism they do not have.

Anyway, we were commenting on this while they were setting up, and some anime fan in front of us angrily turned around to chastise us for wanted them to act professionally. To paraphrase: "We want fans, not professionals. It's impossible to expect professionalism at an anime con, and the lack of it is what we really want."

The biggest thing anime cons could do to up the level of their programming would simply be to expect professionalism from their panelists and, if possible, not accept panels (however good they might be) where the presenters cannot exhibit at least the bare basics of professional conduct.

Most of the time, when I see anti-professionalism, it comes from people who don't take what they do seriously and feel threatened by more competent people who do.

Rochelle

I find myself doing this more and more. If you're so inconsiderate that you're willing to block up everyone else's progress just to take a goddamn photo, then I have absolutely no qualms about walking right through your space. Get the fuck out of my way, you punk kids.

/bitteroldman

Not bitter, you just lack patience for having to wait for stupid things. :P

Another thing to point out. I remember having a conversation with someone about how you can't compare PAX to anime cons because PAX is a for-profit con. It's actually not. I'm pretty sure I heard this from another PAX Section Head where PAX is a non-profit con. All the money goes to supporting the next PAX/PAX East. The rest goes to Child's Play. That blew me away when I heard that. Just keeps reinforcing how awesome PAX is.

Rym

I remember having a conversation with someone about how you can't compare PAX to anime cons because PAX is a for-profit con. It's actually not. I'm pretty sure I heard this from another PAX Section Head where PAX is a non-profit con. All the money goes to supporting the next PAX/PAX East. The rest goes to Child's Play.

The Otakon staff didn't believe me when I told them this at the general meeting.

Cremlian

I'd wager, though, that if you treated the younger kids at anime cons more like adults, they'd act more like adults. The teenagers at PAX (there were many) were totally chill. The con culture matters more, in my opinion, than the ages themselves. If we could foster a more adult culture at anime cons, then things would change dramatically.

I'm not sure how we could control for the average age of the attendee being 5 years older. *Trying to think of some sort of convention that has a significantly younger demographic and isn't nuts*

Something else to take in account of was that FAMILIES came to PAX, I noticed normally parents ditch their children at Anime conventions (especially local ones). I think mainly due to the older audience that you noticed a lot more families walking around with their children instead of ditching them, I assume this is again due to the demographics of video games and board games/RPGs compared to Anime fans who overwhelmingly trend early teenage/to early college age. I'm sure the spread of topics helps a lot (I.E. PAX is not just a video game convention, where Otakon is at it's heart just a Anime convention).

On a less serious note, I figure the fact that there was less Cos-players at PAX was the real reason it was more mature :-p

Cremlian

Another thing to point out. I remember having a conversation with someone about how you can't compare PAX to anime cons because PAX is a for-profit con. It's actually not. I'm pretty sure I heard this from another PAX Section Head where PAX is a non-profit con. All the money goes to supporting the next PAX/PAX East. The rest goes to Child's Play. That blew me away when I heard that. Just keeps reinforcing how awesome PAX is.

What PAX does have is industry backing from a industry that isn't in the toilet.

lackofcheese

On a less serious note, I figure the fact that there was less Cos-players at PAX was the real reason it was more mature :-p

Or perhaps the other way around?

Apreche

I think we can find the most interesting item of note would be the PAX East Witch.

At PAX East, this person was notable enough to be mentioned, remembered, recognized, and even linked by Penny Arcade itself. To me this is a big yawn, because at an anime convention twenty equivalent occurrences happen about every five minutes in any given hallway. But at PAX, one witch is enough to make a scene.

How to view this situation? Is the PAX Witch actually lame, just like all the anime con crap? Is all the equivalent stuff at anime cons actually awesome? Is it a simple case of too much of a good thing becomes a bad thing? Is there something about this witch that makes it better than equivalent anime con things?

Cremlian

How to view this situation? Is the PAX Witch actually lame, just like all the anime con crap? Is all the equivalent stuff at anime cons actually awesome? Is it a simple case of too much of a good thing becomes a bad thing? Is there something about this witch that makes it better than equivalent anime con things?

I thought that was pretty fun but if I would have been that enforcer I would have put a stop to that running with pointy objects!!!

I think going back to my point that there was less cos-playing over all meant that there was less attention whoring, instead of being that attention seeking individual doing someone clever most people tried to be more group oriented inclusively being in as many people as possible instead of showing how awesome one particular person is....

George Patches

Hmmm, this creates an interesting issue for me as one my favorite panels I do is extremely unprofessional. There's no set script at all, we wing it every time for the most part. We crack jokes and take audience questions and our powerpoint has animations.

That said, before and after we try to be as professional as possible. We show up ahead of time and we have our tech sorted. At AB we started late cause Viga ran her panel until our start time. This was fine, but then the staff decided that now would be the ideal time to fiddle with the projector connections. So we started about 7 minutes late and we speed things up so the panel room would be back on schedule. We wrapped things at 2:45 pm and said we'd take questions (Q&A is awesome if the audience is having as much fun as we are) and that the next panelist should come up and setup while we did so. We continued taking questions and kept asking if the next panelists were there every 5 minutes. At 3:05, thinking that the next panelist might not be coming, I decided to say "well if the next panelists aren't coming we can just discuss some anime." That's when the next panelists finally showed up.

Rym

How to view this situation?

Maybe anime conventions have a culture of attention-seeking among attendees, while PAX does not. Notice how easy it is to start a meme, gather attention, or control a crowd at PAX. Notice how impossible it is to do so in a controlled fashion at an anime con. Is that the key? Maybe the attention is split between the con and the meta of the con at anime cons, while it's focused almost entirely on the con itself at PAX.

People at a boxing match watch the boxing, not the audience. But, if a fight breaks out in the audience, they'll turn their attention to it, at least momentarily. The boxing match itself, however, is the focus, and it's what everyone paid for.

An anime con, however, is like a boxing match where the fight in the ring is no more compelling in most cases than the dozens of fights in the audience. Many anime con panels are in no way differentiated from the general chaos in the hallways. In the hall, you have fangirls giggling about Hetalia. On stage in a panel room, you have the same fangirls doing the same thing, but on stage.

Cremlian

Maybe anime conventions have a culture of attention-seeking among attendees, while PAX does not. Notice how easy it is to start a meme, gather attention, or control a crowd at PAX. Notice how impossible it is to do so in a controlled fashion at an anime con. Is that the key? Maybe the attention is split between the con and the meta of the con at anime cons, while it's focused almost entirely on the con itself at PAX.

People at a boxing match watch the boxing, not the audience. But, if a fight breaks out in the audience, they'll turn their attention to it, at least momentarily. The boxing match itself, however, is the focus, and it's what everyone paid for.

An anime con, however, is like a boxing match where the fight in the ring is no more compelling in most cases than the dozens of fights in the audience. Many anime con panels are in no way differentiated from the general chaos in the hallways. In the hall, you have fangirls giggling about Hetalia. On stage in a panel room, you have the same fangirls doing the same thing, but on stage.

Teenagers..... wait this is talking about my point.... DEMOGRAPHICS!!!!! I WIN

Alex Leavitt

I think the demographics are pretty much the reason why PAX was pretty nice. Gee, all of us late 20's/30's like to hang out with people our own age! GASP!

I'd wager, though, that if you treated the younger kids at anime cons more like adults, they'd act more like adults. The teenagers at PAX (there were many) were totally chill. The con culture matters more, in my opinion, than the ages themselves. If we could foster a more adult culture at anime cons, then things would change dramatically.

I feel like no matter what, anime cons have an "assumed culture" by the people that attend: ie., the cons are places to yell and scream and be crazy because these kids can't do that any other time. I don't have much hope for changing that behavior.

Rym

this creates an interesting issue for me as one my favorite panels I do is extremely unprofessional. There's no set script at all, we wing it every time for the most part. We crack jokes and take audience questions and our powerpoint has animations.

Professionalism simply means acting in a manner becoming of a professional. You plan how your event will go, and follow that plan correctly. A good entertainer can very easily do scripted "unprofessional" things if it suits the mood of the event.

There's a difference between starting late because you don't know how to use a projector, and starting late on purpose to set a certain desired mood for your event.

Rym

Teenagers..... wait this is talking about my point.... DEMOGRAPHICS!!!!! I WIN

Then why don't the teenagers at PAX act this way? ;^)

Koholint

Because the anime geek and the gaming geek crowds are different?

WindUpBird

Then why don't the teenagers at PAX act this way? ;^)

Because the teenage demographic of geeks likely breaks down into "PAX-going teens" and "Other teen geeks/shitcockers" subtypes.

Wyatt

Teenagers..... wait this is talking about my point.... DEMOGRAPHICS!!!!! I WIN

Then why don't the teenagers at PAX act this way? ;^)

They're outnumbered.

Acting like a loud immature obnoxious brat will get you attention at an anime con. Acting that same way at PAX will get you shunned by the masses and possibly booted.