A conspiracy only requires more than one person to agree to commit some act. The Lincoln assassination, for example, was an actual conspiracy. Watergate was an actual conspiracy. The Mafia was/is an actual conspiracy (BTW, many people didn't believe in the Mafia's existence until RICO-type prosecutions began in the 70s. What is RICO? A federal statute designed for the prosecution of CONSPIRACIES).
That's true for example the American revolution started as a conspiracy. Generally the crazy conspiracies are ones with super natural underpinnings or a level of government subterfuge that is so high and at the same time so overt that it would take 1,000s of people involved to keep quiet for the conspiracy to continue.
Have you ever heard of Operation Northwoods? If initiated, it would have put in motion a number of false-flag terrorist-type activities in the U.S. to be carried out by the CIA and to be blamed on Cuba. Sounds crazy, doesn't it? However, it's actually, demonstrably true.
Ummm... Yea, proposals, we have freaking proposals to invade Canada.
Yes. Sounds crazy, doesn't it?
See, that's what I'm concerned about. I don't want to see a generation of kids grow up constantly hearing about crazy conspiracy theories and decide that, since there are crazy conspiracy theories, anything that sounds like it requires a conspiracy or anything that sounds the least bit crazy is fictitious. Such a person who chose to be a zealot in deriding crazy conspiracies would, for instance, call you a crazy conspiracy theorist just because you say that there are plans for an invasion of Canada and dismiss anything you said thereafter as crazy.
BTW, there are a couple of differences between these proposals. The military tries to keep plans upon plans concerning just about every conceivable situation so that it can be ready for anything. No one seriously proposed that we should invade Canada at any specific time. No one expects that it will ever happen. There are plans in existence, however, just in case something weird comes about and we have to do it. The Northwoods people, on the other hand tried to get JFK to approve their operation and put it in action right then, in real time. They wanted it to actually happen, and they wanted it to happen soon. That's a little different, don't you think? Also, plans to invade a foreign country are a little different than plans to cause mayhem, panic, and death in your own country so that you can blame it on another country for the sole purpose of fomenting war.
See, that's what I'm concerned about. I don't want to see a generation of kids grow up constantly hearing about crazy conspiracy theories and decide that, since there are crazy conspiracy theories, anything that sounds like it requires a conspiracy or anything that sounds the least bit crazy is fictitious. Such a person who chose to be a zealot in deriding crazy conspiracies would, for instance, call you a crazy conspiracy theorist just because you say that there are plans for an invasion of Canada and dismiss anything you said thereafter as crazy.
I see your point (because that's the point I'm kinda getting at with the fact you still need to engage with people so that other people don't get infected with the crazy) though your example is poor because there is no secrecy involved in the fact we do have tons of weird and off beat contingency plans because everyone and their mother will admit to it (though they won't necessarily tell you how they play out). The overall secrecy angle is not there.
The Northwoods people, on the other hand tried to get JFK to approve their operation and put it in action right then, in real time. They wanted it to actually happen, and they wanted it to happen soon. That's a little different, don't you think?
That is true and partly responsible for why JFK probably started to extremely distrust the CIA.. If the movie "Thirteen days" has any truth in it everyone was freaking retarded back then except for JFK...
your example is poor because there is no secrecy involved in the fact we do have tons of weird and off beat contingency plans because everyone and their mother will admit to it (though they won't necessarily tell you how they play out). The overall secrecy angle is not there.
The secrecy angle isn't there? Northwoods was secret for more than thirty years. Did you read even a little of that article? Northwoods wasn't a contingency plan. It was a plan that people asked JFK to approve for imminent implementation. A contingency plan is a plan that is put into operation if a primary plan fails, or a plan that is to be implemented in case something happens in the future. Northwoods was a primary plan that would have been enacted but for JFK's disapproval.
If someone went on The Dick Cavett Show in 1971 and said that there was a CIA plan to use CIA agents to commit terrorist acts on U.S. soil so that Castro could be blamed so that we could go to war in Cuba and the only thing that stopped the plan's implementation was JFK's disapproval, what do you think Dick would say? Do you think he would say, "Oh, that's not surprising because everyone knows there are all kinds of those plans", or do you think he'd say, "You sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist"?
I'd like to have my earlier question answered. Rym said this:
The core beliefs of all chiropractic are directly supernatural. Anyone who studies it either ignores this, rationalizes it, or is crazy. That's why they're less crazy than other woo-woo practitioners (though just as dangerous otherwise).
Chiropractors are either willfully ignorant, dishonest, or crazy. There's no way around that.
Pete said this:
Chiropractic has been demonstrated to be effective in managing lower back pain.
I'd say most of the time, when normal people engage in conspiracy theories it's because they are mad at something and are looking for a reason to justify their anger or hate that is more socially expectable. For example, birthers. It's not the case with all these people who are birthers but I'm sure a good many of them are closet racists that are just looking for reasons to try to undermine the President because he is black. By saying he's a Muslim and not born in the US they can express their outrage at his Presidency without feeling like a bigot even if it's plain to see that they actually are bigots.
Less Crazy than some of the other hypothetical plans. Half of them are purely training exercises - I don't know the truth of it, but it's long been spoken of that the US has had plans of the Girl scouts becoming a heavily armed military force and trying to take over the US - which are not about the scenario itself, but about what can be learned from such situations and how people act in response. Others are "genuine" training exercises, no less unlikely, but more geared towards realistic scenarios, like "NK finally steps over the line an invades South Korea" or "The Russians are coming", or "the US goes to war with England and her Sons"(Which is where the Canadian attack plan springs from, IIRC). It's more about learning, than having a serious plan.
Yes, but those are hypothetical. Can you agree with me that there is a difference between those plans, the plans that Cremlian called "contigency plans", and Northwood, which the CIA wanted JFK to approve for imminent implementation NAOW?
Yes, but those are hypothetical. Can you agree with me that there is a difference between those plans, the plans that Cremlian called "contigency plans", and Northwood, which the CIA wanted JFK to approve for imminent implementation NAOW?
Oh, absolutely - There is a big difference between a training exercise, no matter how realistic or insane, and an actual battleplan(or whatever you might call it), no matter if it's implemented or not, for a number of reasons. One good one being that people, no matter how hard they try, act differently when their lives, their mates lives, their subordinate's lives, or what have you, are on the line. Or, in the case of Officers, when good equipment is on the line, that shit is expensive.
There is a big difference between a training exercise, no matter how realistic or insane, and an actual battleplan(or whatever you might call it)
All the training exercises I participated in were done as if they were real. They usually involved actual battleplans for some operation that we would execute... like an attack on Libya or Iran. Maybe they would change up some details so it wasn't exactly the same just in case the plan got exposed, but we always trained they way we would fight.
See, that's what I'm concerned about. I don't want to see a generation of kids grow up constantly hearing about crazy conspiracy theories and decide that, since there are crazy conspiracy theories, anything that sounds like it requires a conspiracy or anything that sounds the least bit crazy is fictitious. Such a person who chose to be a zealot in deriding crazy conspiracies would, for instance, call you a crazy conspiracy theorist just because you say that there are plans for an invasion of Canada and dismiss anything you said thereafter as crazy.
You see, all the crazy conspiracy theories out there are actually the result of a real conspiracy covering its tracks in a brilliant way.
What better way for a real conspiracy to cover its tracks than by spreading conspiracy theories?
All the training exercises I participated in were done as if they were real. They usually involved actual battleplans for some operation that we would execute... like an attack on Libya or Iran. Maybe they would change up some details so it wasn't exactly the same just in case the plan got exposed, but we always trained they way we would fight.
No shit, Thus the saying, Training is bloodless combat, combat is bloody training. I know the drill as well as you do. However, that doesn't change the fact that people behave differently when lives are on the line, theirs or their mates. Having the MILES gear play a tone at you(Just as an example) and seeing your mate slotted by catching a 7.62 with his throat are two very different things.
There's actually a very interesting book on the subject cited under the "third eye" section by a Dr. Rick Strassman called The Spirit Molecule. He designed and performed one of the first experiments with a psychedelic drug on humans since the Timothy Leary LSD episodes in the 60's. He chronicles his difficulties in designing the experiment due to the illegality of DMT and the red tape he had to wade through, the results of his experiments, "eye-witness" accounts of the subject's experiences, and his theories derived thereof. Its written to be accessible to the layman (imho), and you have to assume a certain amount of bias from a Dr. of Psychology interested in experimenting with psychedelic drugs, but his devotion to the experiment's purity and his efforts to back up his assertions mostly make up for it. I recommend it.
In it he also explores the theory of the endogenous entheogen, or Pineal DMT. While not part of his experiment, and thus not based on strong scientific authority, it is an interesting diversion from the norm on the topic of spiritual inspiration. Could the pineal glad be the cause of the alien abduction, the afterlife experience, the divine inspiration? He makes a reasonable case for it. Correlating the experiences of his test subjects with the firsthand accounts of all these other phenomena reveals many recurring themes. Another interesting speculation is the release of pineal DMT by both the mother and her child at the time of childbirth, by all individuals at the time of actual physical death, and ultimately as the cause of all strong religious inclinations. The speculation at the end of the book was a little annoying, considering I was hoping for a more evidence-based conclusion, but it also had to be considered as laying groundwork for future experiments. ultimately Dr. Strassman felt that the restrictions placed on him by the illegality of the substance limited his ability to put patients at ease, and this negatively affected the results of his experiment.
So to address your link more directly, I don't think its all that crazy to put a lot of religious significance on the pineal gland. To say that you become psychic because of it, or that an actual deity exists and you met him is a stretch, but its still interesting that the human body may be capable of directly producing a chemical known to bring on those effects.
This lady I helped at the store didn't want to take her receipt because they have radiation. Um...what.
They don't have radiation. However, almost all store receipts are printed with ink that contains BPA and sometimes other chemicals that might potentially be maybe unsafe we don't know. Even so, just one receipt won't hurt you. If you work as a cashier at a grocery store and are constantly touching them all day, get some gloves.
This lady I helped at the store didn't want to take her receipt because they have radiation. Um...what.
They don't have radiation. However, almost all store receipts are printed with ink that contains BPA and sometimes other chemicals that might potentially be maybe unsafe we don't know. Even so, just one receipt won't hurt you. If you work as a cashier at a grocery store and are constantly touching them all day, get some gloves.
I know, but I had that 'what' expression when she told me that. That made the day weirder.
If you want to hear batshit crazy, listen to the Tom Green Show podcast. Now if you want to hear REAL crazy, listen to the episode where he has Joe Rogan on.
If you want to hear batshit crazy, listen to the Tom Green Show podcast. Now if you want to hear REAL crazy, listen to the episode where he has Joe Rogan on.
To be fair, Joe rogan is A batshit crazy conspiracy theorist meathead. He's a funny guy, but crazier than a shithouse rat.
To be fair, Joe rogan is A batshit crazy conspiracy theorist meathead. He's a funny guy, but crazier than a shithouse rat.
This. Listen to the Penn Jillette podcast where Joe Rogan argues with Phil Plait about the moon landing "hoax."
Oh this is such a touch decision. On one hand I really would like to listen to some Penn Jillette, but on the other I really don't want the stress of hearing Joe Rogan speak. Does he mercilessly embarrass himself?
To be fair, Joe rogan is A batshit crazy conspiracy theorist meathead. He's a funny guy, but crazier than a shithouse rat.
This. Listen to the Penn Jillette podcast where Joe Rogan argues with Phil Plait about the moon landing "hoax."
Oh this is such a touch decision. On one hand I really would like to listen to some Penn Jillette, but on the other I really don't want the stress of hearing Joe Rogan speak. Does he mercilessly embarrass himself?
Penn is very forgiving of Rogan's idiocy. Let's put it that way. You know how diplomatic he can be. If you are a fan of logic, you'll grind your teeth every time Rogan moves those goalposts....
Comments
See, that's what I'm concerned about. I don't want to see a generation of kids grow up constantly hearing about crazy conspiracy theories and decide that, since there are crazy conspiracy theories, anything that sounds like it requires a conspiracy or anything that sounds the least bit crazy is fictitious. Such a person who chose to be a zealot in deriding crazy conspiracies would, for instance, call you a crazy conspiracy theorist just because you say that there are plans for an invasion of Canada and dismiss anything you said thereafter as crazy.
BTW, there are a couple of differences between these proposals. The military tries to keep plans upon plans concerning just about every conceivable situation so that it can be ready for anything. No one seriously proposed that we should invade Canada at any specific time. No one expects that it will ever happen. There are plans in existence, however, just in case something weird comes about and we have to do it. The Northwoods people, on the other hand tried to get JFK to approve their operation and put it in action right then, in real time. They wanted it to actually happen, and they wanted it to happen soon. That's a little different, don't you think? Also, plans to invade a foreign country are a little different than plans to cause mayhem, panic, and death in your own country so that you can blame it on another country for the sole purpose of fomenting war.
If someone went on The Dick Cavett Show in 1971 and said that there was a CIA plan to use CIA agents to commit terrorist acts on U.S. soil so that Castro could be blamed so that we could go to war in Cuba and the only thing that stopped the plan's implementation was JFK's disapproval, what do you think Dick would say? Do you think he would say, "Oh, that's not surprising because everyone knows there are all kinds of those plans", or do you think he'd say, "You sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist"?
I'd like to have my earlier question answered. Rym said this: Pete said this: Is Pete crazy?
What better way for a real conspiracy to cover its tracks than by spreading conspiracy theories?
In it he also explores the theory of the endogenous entheogen, or Pineal DMT. While not part of his experiment, and thus not based on strong scientific authority, it is an interesting diversion from the norm on the topic of spiritual inspiration. Could the pineal glad be the cause of the alien abduction, the afterlife experience, the divine inspiration? He makes a reasonable case for it. Correlating the experiences of his test subjects with the firsthand accounts of all these other phenomena reveals many recurring themes. Another interesting speculation is the release of pineal DMT by both the mother and her child at the time of childbirth, by all individuals at the time of actual physical death, and ultimately as the cause of all strong religious inclinations. The speculation at the end of the book was a little annoying, considering I was hoping for a more evidence-based conclusion, but it also had to be considered as laying groundwork for future experiments. ultimately Dr. Strassman felt that the restrictions placed on him by the illegality of the substance limited his ability to put patients at ease, and this negatively affected the results of his experiment.
So to address your link more directly, I don't think its all that crazy to put a lot of religious significance on the pineal gland. To say that you become psychic because of it, or that an actual deity exists and you met him is a stretch, but its still interesting that the human body may be capable of directly producing a chemical known to bring on those effects.
I am changing this threads title to "Tales of the crazy side of the Internet"