Do you really think that a router would have access to two bands and not use them both for the N network? A dual-band router does not equal a dual access point router. Now kiss my ring, plebeian.
Do you really think that a router would have access to two bands and not use them both for the N network? A dual-band router does not equal a dual access point router. Now kiss my ring, plebeian.
What is it exactly you think these routers do? I can assure it you it isn't running two independent access points.
If you run an N/G network on one of these, it will run at full speed N and then slow to G when a G client connects. If you want a separate G and N network, you need two separate access points, either with an Airport Extreme or using two separate routers.
What is it exactly you think these routers do? I can assure it you it isn't running two independent access points.
If you run an N/G network on one of these, it will run at full speed N and then slow to G when a G client connects. If you want a separate G and N network, you need two separate access points, either with an Airport Extreme or using two separate routers.
You clearly have not been reading this thread at all.
You are correct in that normally a router that is set to support multiple different "letters" will be reduced to the least common denominator. So if you have a b/g/n router, and everyone is using n, it will go at n speed. But as soon as one b device connects, everyone will be reduced to b.
What you are missing is that this rule only applies when all people are connecting on the same band. These routers we are discussing are simultaneous dual-band. That means you can configure them such that the 5GHz band is N-only, and the 2.4Ghz band is all the others. This allows you to have n devices running at full speed on the 5GHz band, while all the legacy devices are stuck on the 2.4Ghz. The slow devices on the other band will not drag the N devices down to their level.
I'm not sure if this is implemented by having two actual SSIDs, but it might be. If it isn't, that doesn't really matter. I know that the WRT160N also seems to have the simultaneous dual-band, and it can run DD-WRT, which means you can get as many SSIDs as you want. The Netgear also has multiple SSID support with the built-in firmware.
These routers we are discussing are simultaneous dual-band. That means you can configure them such that the 5GHz band is N-only, and the 2.4Ghz band is all the others.
Then, if you can see this you see the obvious problem. How have you been stupid enough to go all this while without seeing it?
Simultaneous N/G/B where N doesn't slow down when G in use
What? Do you want to use an N network and a G network, both at full speed, or not? If you do, you need two access points, otherwise you're only going to get partial N performance, as your router is using one of the radios for running the G network instead of using both for the N network.
Concurrent Dual-Band Performance for High Speeds, Less Congestion The WNDR3700 operates simultaneously on both the 2.4-GHz frequency and the less congested 5.0-GHz frequency, giving you the fastest throughput performance available. The result is a combined 600 Mbps speed, with real throughput of over 350 Mbps over your wireless network.
Omnutia, you're not getting it. B/G devices CANNOT use the 5 gHz band. The only thing on that band will be n-capable devices, which will run at full n specs. This isn't a difficult concept.
The only thing on that band will be n-capable devices, which will run at full n specs. This isn't a difficult concept.
But wouldn't dual-band N need both bands?
As far as I see it: Scott thinks that N will operate in just the 5Ghz range and G in the 2.4Ghz range. As I see it: Dual-band N uses both the 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz ranges and swapping it over to a G+N network will mean it only has the 5GHz range to work with.
The only thing on that band will be n-capable devices, which will run at full n specs. This isn't a difficult concept.
But wouldn't dual-band N need both bands?
What do you mean? If you run n devices on both 2.4 and 5? The point of n is that it can run on the 5 ghz band and get away from slower b/g devices. These routers give you a separate band specifically for n devices. If you ran n devices on both bands, the devices on the 2.4 band could be slowed by b/g devices. That's why you run n devices at 5 ghz.
EIDT: No, you've got it wrong. There's no "swapping" with simultaneous dual-band. The two bands operate independently and simultaneously. You have n devices broadcasting at 5 and b/g devices at 2.4.
Why wouldn't you just run the N network over both frequencies? Isn't that the point of Dual-band?
No, the point is to allow n devices uncluttered access to high speeds. Yes, normally, a mixed n/g network will slow to g. Put your n devices on the spearate 5 ghz channel, and they run at full n capabilities. Your b/g devices then use the 2.4 band without messing up n.
See, I'm just a cheap bastard and I'd get a separate N router. My wireless "router" really just functions as an access point, I have a much more powerful computer providing my actual firewall/router functions.
Why wouldn't you just run the N network over both frequencies? Isn't that the point of Dual-band?
No, the point is to allow n devices uncluttered access to high speeds. Yes, normally, a mixed n/g network will slow to g. Put your n devices on the spearate 5 ghz channel, and they run at full n capabilities. Your b/g devices then use the 2.4 band without messing up n.
That's beginning to make some sense but then why would both radios be N compatible (It states 600mb/s which I think is twice the 300mb/s standard.)?
All that stuff where you use the 2.4 and 5ghz stuff at the same time to go faster is all BS proprietary nonsense. Sure, you can make it work if you get the exact wireless card and and router that go together from the same company. In reality, people don't use crazy PCMCIA cards with three antennas unless they're a moron with money to burn. We use iPhones, DSes, Wiis, and the Intel wireless chips built into most laptops. None of those are going to do any of that simultaneous nonsense. Even if the router supports some fancy feature of going 600Mbps instead of 300Mbps, nobody will have a card supporting it. Those are all theoretical speeds anyway, and are pretty much impossible to actually reach. The one in my laptop, which I specifically mentioned in my original post, supports 300mbps max. It doesn't do that non-standard crap.
Now you could have pointed out that the 5Ghz band is not as good at going through walls, and speeds decrease greatly as range increases when using 5GHz only. This is true, so N devices would have worse connectivity with this setup than the b/g devices would. I would point out that I live in a tiny ass apartment, so that doesn't matter. I'm going to have 100% no matter where I'm sitting.
Those are all theoretical speeds anyway, and are pretty much impossible to actually reach.
Not impossible, and yes, standard specification. You just need more antennas, for real (or at least more data streams). You'll be fine with 2 streams anyway since that will go up to 300Mbps.
I need a router. Nothing grand, just a little four port with WiFi to handle a handful of computers and an Xbox. I'll chain a switch to it if it comes to that. I was thinking about the old workhorse, the WRT54GL; does anyone have any other suggestions? Open firmware is a plus.
Comments
Now kiss my ring, plebeian.
If you run an N/G network on one of these, it will run at full speed N and then slow to G when a G client connects. If you want a separate G and N network, you need two separate access points, either with an Airport Extreme or using two separate routers.
You are correct in that normally a router that is set to support multiple different "letters" will be reduced to the least common denominator. So if you have a b/g/n router, and everyone is using n, it will go at n speed. But as soon as one b device connects, everyone will be reduced to b.
What you are missing is that this rule only applies when all people are connecting on the same band. These routers we are discussing are simultaneous dual-band. That means you can configure them such that the 5GHz band is N-only, and the 2.4Ghz band is all the others. This allows you to have n devices running at full speed on the 5GHz band, while all the legacy devices are stuck on the 2.4Ghz. The slow devices on the other band will not drag the N devices down to their level.
I'm not sure if this is implemented by having two actual SSIDs, but it might be. If it isn't, that doesn't really matter. I know that the WRT160N also seems to have the simultaneous dual-band, and it can run DD-WRT, which means you can get as many SSIDs as you want. The Netgear also has multiple SSID support with the built-in firmware.
http://www.netgear.com/Products/RoutersandGateways/WirelessNRoutersandGateways/WNDR3700.aspx
READ.
As far as I see it:
Scott thinks that N will operate in just the 5Ghz range and G in the 2.4Ghz range.
As I see it: Dual-band N uses both the 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz ranges and swapping it over to a G+N network will mean it only has the 5GHz range to work with.
Does this not make sense to anyone else?
EIDT: No, you've got it wrong. There's no "swapping" with simultaneous dual-band. The two bands operate independently and simultaneously. You have n devices broadcasting at 5 and b/g devices at 2.4.
Now you could have pointed out that the 5Ghz band is not as good at going through walls, and speeds decrease greatly as range increases when using 5GHz only. This is true, so N devices would have worse connectivity with this setup than the b/g devices would. I would point out that I live in a tiny ass apartment, so that doesn't matter. I'm going to have 100% no matter where I'm sitting.
As Rym said