I will try what you have suggested next time I play. I was definitely doing it wrong with the supply depots. I was just putting them all bunched up in the back of my base. I also kept them underground all the time, wrongly thinking that increased their defense while also making it easier for my guys to move around.
I am definitely fucking up because I often have tons of unspent resources. I actually don't have much problem making sure each building is doing stuff at all times. Because they allow me to queue up things like upgrades and marine production, and I get audio queues when they finish, I can always make sure there is a flow of units coming out.
The problem I have is maintaining the ratio of gas to minerals. I'll often be caught in a situation where I have tons of crystals and no gas. Meanwhile, everything I want to build needs gas. Should I just build a ton of no-gas requiring units in these cases?
The other problem I have is managing the construction of new buildings while also managing military units. In order to spend the resources, I have to manage a bunch of SCVs that are building buildings, while also managing the military units. I can build the military units and control what the buildings are producing simultaneously. I don't also have the skill to simultaneously build new buildings and command the troops.
I wish they would make a co-op RTS where one person just built the base, and another person just commanded the troops.
I wasn't aware of co-op RTS modes with shared control but I am in awe at their potential awesomeness if done correctly. This goes back to the podcast saying there should be more variety in the types of RTS games. Starcraft is awesome, no doubt, but there is room for more than their formula. For a different flavor though, you'd also be surprised what people can do with the custom level editor and custom rules. I haven't seen any SC2 customs but from what I hear the level editor allows even deeper control.
To Scott's comments about having unbalanaced resources, yes at that point you have messed up, but you are correct in states you can at least mitigate that failure by building anything possible to get the minerals spent. A squad of marines can turn the tide in a battle and is better than unspent resources. You can still win the game. Afterwards, maybe check out the replay and see if you put too many SCVs in one place or another, and adjust for next time.
Cash jar: I just sorted through my "Shit, I just changed too much foreign money, and now I have to take it home" collection. I'm not sure how much it is, but I'm guessing about 700 euros. I really need to start taking money with me when visiting a country a second time, rather than changing yet more money the second time.
Men of War is probably my favourite RTS available right now. It has no resource micromanagement (point pool based), doesn't use the tired old rock-paper-scissors formula (any unit can destroy almost any other unit if used properly), and you can use realistic tactics like flanking, cover, concealment and envelopment. It also allows micromanagement of troop ammo and weapons, but it's not a necessity in most situations, but it is cool when you can get one of your guys to steal a dead soldier's flamethrower and cut loose with it.
There is a free multiplayer trial going on for the next few days, details in this article. Also for an idea of the gameplay, this video:
Just here to point something out. Scott, there is sort of a psuedo-single player mode in the SC2 beta that you can use to help you learn tech-trees and what units do well against what. Under Multiplayer in Custom Games, select Create a Game, and you can start a one player vs AI match that lets you learn mechanics without automatically getting obliterated. Sadly it is ONLY meant for this and you can't set the AI difficulty above very easy. To reiterate gundabad, as Terran: 1. block off your base, 2. learn build orders, and 3. learn how to play against other races. You also might want to check out some pro matches on youtube, really helped me learn some decent strategies so I don't always get automatically zealot/zerg/reaper-rushed to oblivion.
Sadly it is ONLY meant for this and you can't set the AI difficulty above very easy.
That's good. I doubt I can win on very easy.
learn how to play against other races.
I definitely need to learn the other races. I was crushed by the zerg burrowing one time. Didn't even know that was possible, or how to counter it.
You also might want to check out some pro matches on youtube, really helped me learn some decent strategies so I don't always get automatically zealot/zerg/reaper-rushed to oblivion.
This helped me in Street Fighter, but it doesn't help me so much in SC because I can't really tell what's going on.
I agree totally with Scott's tutorial rant. Imagine if hockey had just been invented and the inventors were looking to get people interested in the sport, so as to refine the rules and create teams. To do this you would have to get people to play the sport and test the rules out to see what makes sense and to see which rules need modification, which rules need to be added and/or which rules need to be removed.
Now image if you got 12 people together who have never seen/played the sport (as it has just been invented) and simply gave them all the equipment and pointed to the ice and said go play this new sport called hockey. They wouldn't know what to do. They might figure out the basics, but without knowing the rules they wouldn't have any real clue as to what they are being asked to do and would therefore probably lose interest. I can picture situations where the nets might be placed in the wrong locations or even situations where the individual who gets stuck with the goalie gear might not realize that his job is to protect the net at all times.
Would this not be considered a beta test for hockey? And would not the overall goal of refining the rules and generating interest in the sport be better served if the people were given a brief tutorial by the inventor(s) of the sport?
In an early beta, you can accomplish the same with an instruction manual rather than a tutorial. The former requires far less initial input, and is more easily updated as the game changes.
I just finished the episode. I agree there should at least be a manual, even for a beta. But you know what annoys me? After playing NS for about a year and a half, I still don't know how to do many things. For example, how do I build structures in Combat mode? No idea. Good luck trying to find out anything about playing NS.
For example, how do I build structures in Combat mode?
Those don't exist in actual NS: it's some bullshit mod. NS One is slowly going down the path that finally killed Tribes 2: more servers running weird, poorly documented mods than the straight game.
Everyone says "You've got to keybind it using the terminal" and I don't even know where to find the terminal.
FPSs have come a long way. Back when I played MegaTF, I had to write keybind scripts to manage complex actions like off-hand grenades, load them into the game, and bind them on the backend via the terminal (which still exists in most FPSs, but is disabled by default).
NS is just so old that it has legacy stuff like that in the mods, which are really only aimed at the hardcore players. I'd suggest only playing on vanilla servers: the mods only serve to make the game worse in almost all cases.
FPSs have come a long way. Back when I played MegaTF, I had to write keybindscriptsto manage complex actions like off-hand grenades, load them into the game, and bind them on the backend via the terminal (which still exists in most FPSs, but is disabled by default).
I just finished the episode. I agree there should at least be a manual, even for a beta. But you know what annoys me? After playing NS for about a year and a half, I still don't know how to do many things. For example, how do I build structures in Combat mode? No idea. Good luck trying to find out anything about playing NS.
Like Rym said, all that stuff like building structures in combat is extra modifications made on that particular server. They are not actually in the game for real.
Fair enough. Everyone says "You've got to keybind it using the terminal" and I don't even know where to find the terminal.
In almost every FPS you will ever play the ~ key will open the console. In Valve games you have to go into the control settings, click advanced, and then enable the console before this will work. You will also see the option in there to enable fast weapon switch, which I like to do as well.
I did Farmville for a couple of days a while ago. You can spend real money on it, to get items of which you should only get on a more evolved farm. What I realized is that most people who do it a lot just have a lot of free time during work hours or don't work. On another note, the thing about playing an RTSs like Starcraft is you really gotta be ready to concentrate on that thing and have a couple of strategies on the top of your head. Also while you're playing, there is sort of like an A game and a B game. The A game everybody does the same, it's the beginning with the SRVs and the marines. Now if the game is not over already on the A game, you can do one of the B games you have planned. You can go straight to battle cruisers, or you can build tanks and goliaths or whatever you plan for your B game, but if you don't have the A game down really good, you never get there.
@Scott - I haven't looked at the Beta in a good while but the last time I did, there was an AI that was silly stupid. If you can, make a solo game versus that AI and then look at the tool tips. You mentioned in your rant that you didn't know what units attacked what and that's all in the tool tips. It will also give you a chance to look at the tech tree and see what needs what in advance so you don't have the read the tool tips in game.
I could rant on Scotts rant but It suffices to say that in the long view, I'm on Ryms side of this. There is little to no reason to put a tutorial on a Beta of anything much less SC2. As a previous poster said (and I'm too lazy to look up whom) said, this is more stress testing on Battle.Net than actual bug hunting for the game. I should also note that I've played the single player mode and it DOES have a tutorial. I suspect the reason Blizzard didn't make it available online right now is because there are lore tie-ins and they've been VERY secretive about protecting that.
There are benefits to testing without a tutorial as well. It gives the developers a chance to see how accessible the game is. You are self-admittedly terrible at RTS. I don't want to make too many wild presumptions but it seems like a safe bet you don't have an immense amount of experience in the genre. You would find the game confusing because the genre is one you are not familiar with. I do commend your dedication to wanting to learn something you inherently aren't good at because not many people are willing to put their heads down and WORK for something like that. Kinda like me as a programmer... I hate doing it but I'm SO good at it...
I should also note that I've played the single player mode and it DOES have a tutorial.
How did you play it if it's not in the beta? Are you in some secret club? Spill the beans!
I suspect the reason Blizzard didn't make it available online right now is because there are lore tie-ins and they've been VERY secretive about protecting that.
I really do not understand this. Of all things to keep secret, lore is very near the bottom of the list. Almost nobody reads it or cares about it. It's really just a wink at the hardcore fans the same way that crossovers and such are winks for hardcore superhero fans. I'm curious, who here really cares a lot about lore in games and such?
I do commend your dedication to wanting to learn something you inherently aren't good at because not many people are willing to put their heads down and WORK for something like that.
It's more that I am just looking for something fresh. I've played out all the games I already like. I'm just waiting for Civ V and NS2 to come out. Rather than play more games in the genres I'm already kind of bored with, I decided to try the genres I never play because I suck ass at them. Those being fighting and RTS. My fighting game skills are still low, but increasing. RTS have increased only the smallest amount due to the fact that I know now to build a fuck ton of SCV, but that's about it.
Scott - I know that with your thousands and thousands of loyal listeners that it's hard to keep track of everyone on the board but.... I work for Blizzard. ;-) As to your question about lore, I am a tremendous fan of it. I love story in all its forms. Be it a story someone is presenting to me in a game, a book, a film, whatever or a story I'm making up as I go along. Mostly I do this via roleplaying since I'm not a very skilled writer.
I'd be willing to go into more detailed info on SC2 specifically. I'm not a great player mainly because I am not that twitchy but I can come up with a battle plan.
Comments
I am definitely fucking up because I often have tons of unspent resources. I actually don't have much problem making sure each building is doing stuff at all times. Because they allow me to queue up things like upgrades and marine production, and I get audio queues when they finish, I can always make sure there is a flow of units coming out.
The problem I have is maintaining the ratio of gas to minerals. I'll often be caught in a situation where I have tons of crystals and no gas. Meanwhile, everything I want to build needs gas. Should I just build a ton of no-gas requiring units in these cases?
The other problem I have is managing the construction of new buildings while also managing military units. In order to spend the resources, I have to manage a bunch of SCVs that are building buildings, while also managing the military units. I can build the military units and control what the buildings are producing simultaneously. I don't also have the skill to simultaneously build new buildings and command the troops.
I wish they would make a co-op RTS where one person just built the base, and another person just commanded the troops.
To Scott's comments about having unbalanaced resources, yes at that point you have messed up, but you are correct in states you can at least mitigate that failure by building anything possible to get the minerals spent. A squad of marines can turn the tide in a battle and is better than unspent resources. You can still win the game. Afterwards, maybe check out the replay and see if you put too many SCVs in one place or another, and adjust for next time.
There is a free multiplayer trial going on for the next few days, details in this article. Also for an idea of the gameplay, this video:
Now image if you got 12 people together who have never seen/played the sport (as it has just been invented) and simply gave them all the equipment and pointed to the ice and said go play this new sport called hockey. They wouldn't know what to do. They might figure out the basics, but without knowing the rules they wouldn't have any real clue as to what they are being asked to do and would therefore probably lose interest. I can picture situations where the nets might be placed in the wrong locations or even situations where the individual who gets stuck with the goalie gear might not realize that his job is to protect the net at all times.
Would this not be considered a beta test for hockey? And would not the overall goal of refining the rules and generating interest in the sport be better served if the people were given a brief tutorial by the inventor(s) of the sport?
NS is just so old that it has legacy stuff like that in the mods, which are really only aimed at the hardcore players. I'd suggest only playing on vanilla servers: the mods only serve to make the game worse in almost all cases.
On another note, the thing about playing an RTSs like Starcraft is you really gotta be ready to concentrate on that thing and have a couple of strategies on the top of your head. Also while you're playing, there is sort of like an A game and a B game. The A game everybody does the same, it's the beginning with the SRVs and the marines. Now if the game is not over already on the A game, you can do one of the B games you have planned. You can go straight to battle cruisers, or you can build tanks and goliaths or whatever you plan for your B game, but if you don't have the A game down really good, you never get there.
I could rant on Scotts rant but It suffices to say that in the long view, I'm on Ryms side of this. There is little to no reason to put a tutorial on a Beta of anything much less SC2. As a previous poster said (and I'm too lazy to look up whom) said, this is more stress testing on Battle.Net than actual bug hunting for the game. I should also note that I've played the single player mode and it DOES have a tutorial. I suspect the reason Blizzard didn't make it available online right now is because there are lore tie-ins and they've been VERY secretive about protecting that.
There are benefits to testing without a tutorial as well. It gives the developers a chance to see how accessible the game is. You are self-admittedly terrible at RTS. I don't want to make too many wild presumptions but it seems like a safe bet you don't have an immense amount of experience in the genre. You would find the game confusing because the genre is one you are not familiar with. I do commend your dedication to wanting to learn something you inherently aren't good at because not many people are willing to put their heads down and WORK for something like that. Kinda like me as a programmer... I hate doing it but I'm SO good at it...
I'd be willing to go into more detailed info on SC2 specifically. I'm not a great player mainly because I am not that twitchy but I can come up with a battle plan.