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Warhammer 40k: Dark Millenium

AndrewAndrew
edited June 2010 in Video Games
THQ just announced the new Warhammer 40k MMO, Dark Millenium

This is damn near a guaranteed buy for me.
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Comments

  • RailithRailith
    That shit looks like Planetside topped with the delicious grim darkness of Warhammer 40k. I'm game if they actually deliver.
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    edited June 2010
    THQ just announced the new Warhammer 40k MMO, Dark Millenium
    Fuck.

    They better not cock it up like Mythic did to Warhammer Online.

    EDIT: To clarify, I'm sure THQ will get the "fluff" right - they did a killer job with DoW - but I'm generally wary of MMO companies.
    Post edited by TheWhaleShark on
  • ChurbaChurba
    Related news - There is a warhammer movie coming out, called "Ultramarines" - the focus of it is pretty much in the title. Looks to be suprisingly good, but debatable how the ultra-xenophobic, hyper-religious troops of the Imperium will go down with the public.

  • ......
    Stamp
    Hurt
    Pertwee
    Stomp, hurt, per two... the staff is probably chosen for their Xenos-killing-like last names.

    The MMO might suffer from idiots claiming to be chapter masters who then get curbstomed by an ork grub. Like everything else. ORK IZ GRAYTAZT!!
  • GreatTeacherMacRossGreatTeacherMacRoss
    edited June 2010
    SHIT.
    JUST.
    GOT.
    REAL.

    The key will be how combat is handled. If it's straight up FPS like Planetside, it'll be awesome. If it is in any way like Tabula Rasa, it'll be made of fail.
    Post edited by GreatTeacherMacRoss on
  • AprecheApreche
    edited June 2010
    There is pretty much zero chance it will be a for real FPS. You will get better equipment as you level, and that equipment will be permanent. Once you achieve a certain very low level of skill, the game will level you up over time, never requiring you to increase your skill above that level.

    There's also no way the game will be truly massive. It will be just like the other MMORPGs. The massive part will basically be a game lobby where you split into scripted instanced whatevers.

    Be honest with yourselves. This game is the same old same old. You people are only interested because of the Warhammer 40K license. If the same exact game did not have a licensed property attached to it, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as big on your radar. For the subscription price of an MMO, you can just go buy some Warhammer miniatures and do something useful and creative, like painting.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • RymRym
    Scott's probably right.

    We all know that a game like this could be amazing. It should be amazing. But it will be a stateful, massively parallel, time-investment game with a popular license attached to it.
  • GreatTeacherMacRossGreatTeacherMacRoss
    edited June 2010
    Welp, I'm already done and not interested anymore because of this article. Specifically:
    According to the info, the title's definitely an MMORPG as opposed to what could have been a Planetside-esque MMOFPS. But despite that it appears developer Vigil Games is aiming for a reasonably in-depth combat system, as it's orientated around cover, suppressive fire and flanking.

    Firefights will take place on a larger scale than those planned by EA Mythic for Warhammer fantasy MMO Age of Reckoning, says the info. Players will be able to form squads, and presumably the WH40K equivalent of guilds - Chapters, will that be? - although that's information being kept under wraps at the moment.
    Now, I no longer care. They are taking a shooting game and making it specifically not-shooting. They went the completely opposite direction of Planetside, which is the exactly wrong thing to do. My excitement lasted exactly three hours.

    EDIT: Upon reading more articles, all they talk about is how "cool" the game is going to "look". Look? You bitches could give me ultra-low polygon Quake-1 style graphics and if the game was awesome, I wouldn't give to shits. Gameplay is what matters and is why this one is officially off my radar.
    Post edited by GreatTeacherMacRoss on
  • RymRym
    They went the completely opposite direction of Planetside, which is the exactly wrong thing to do.
    It's the wrong thing to do if you want to make a game. It's the right thing to do if you want to make money.
  • WindUpBirdWindUpBird
    edited June 2010
    It's the wrong thing to do if you want to make agame. It's the right thing to do if you want to makemoney.
    But it's Warhammer 40k! You're guaranteed to make money!

    I hate the game studios.
    Post edited by WindUpBird on
  • GreatTeacherMacRossGreatTeacherMacRoss
    edited June 2010
    They went the completely opposite direction of Planetside, which is the exactly wrong thing to do.
    It's the wrong thing to do if you want to make agame. It's the right thing to do if you want to makemoney.
    Yeah, it seems to be what they're doing here. It really boggles my mind. A MMOFPS based on a massive war game should be stupid easy to make. Planetside was great before the people who figured out the whole 'teamwork' thing were outnumbered but the gamers who were full of swearing and a lone-gunman mentality. Once the balance shifted, there was non-stop bitching from the lone-gunman about balance and wanting giant robots and shit. The devs caved to the more vocal, but dense, lone-gunners and effectively killed the game for the big, teamwork-oriented clans. Hell, Sturmgrenadier barely plays anymore and they were there during BETA with over 100 members.
    WH40K would have attracted a LOT of players and ex-players from PS. The interest was certainly there in the community. But by making it, like you said, "not a game" they have already sounded it's death knell. I think it'll do maybe as good as the other Warhammer MMO, and will attract exactly the same patrons.
    What infuriates me, as it obviously does WindUpBird, is that they don't recognize that they'd make MORE money if they made a good game based in the franchise as opposed to doing this piddly half-assed bullshit.
    Post edited by GreatTeacherMacRoss on
  • RymRym
    But it's Warhammer 40k! You're guaranteed to make money!
    Hardly. There's bigger money in facile games which foster a feeling of accomplishment and sense of social obligation by presenting false challenges with guaranteed success through time investment.
  • GreatTeacherMacRossGreatTeacherMacRoss
    But it's Warhammer 40k! You're guaranteed to make money!
    Hardly. There's bigger money in facile games which foster a feeling of accomplishment and sense of social obligation by presenting false challenges with guaranteed success through time investment.
    You've put my thoughts of "Man, fuck that shit" into a far more articulate sentence.
  • AprecheApreche
    edited June 2010
    Now, I no longer care. They are taking a shooting game and making it specifically not-shooting. They went the completely opposite direction of Planetside, which is the exactly wrong thing to do. My excitement lasted exactly three hours.
    There's a reason your Planetside game failed. Even a mediocre shooter like Planetside, which is about the same level as Halo or TF2, is too difficult and inaccessible for the majority of human beings. No company investing enough money to make an MMO is going to deviate from the money making formula. MMOs only work on economy of scale. You need a shitton of players, which means it has to be a game for morons, and it has to be a Skinner Box to keep them paying month after month.

    Real, non-MMO, FPS don't have this problem because players run their own servers. That eliminates the monthly fee, and the game can be profitable with far fewer players. I still don't understand why someone has not made an MMO where players run their own servers.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • GreatTeacherMacRossGreatTeacherMacRoss
    edited June 2010
    Now, I no longer care. They are taking a shooting game and making it specifically not-shooting. They went the completely opposite direction of Planetside, which is the exactly wrong thing to do. My excitement lasted exactly three hours.
    I still don't understand why someone has not made an MMO where players run their own servers.
    The ability to cheat. Plain and simple.
    That and the concept of a persistent world.
    Also, how many individual people have the capacity for a computer that can handle a several-thousand person persistent world in which combat is twitch-reliant and keep lag as low as possible?
    Post edited by GreatTeacherMacRoss on
  • AprecheApreche
    The ability to cheat. Plain and simple. That and the concept of a persistent world.
    You're not getting it. If people could run their own servers, it would be a MUD situation. Each server would be a persistent MMO. Just like in the olden days when anyone could fire up their own copy of DikuMUD and make a world. If someone is cheating, who cares? That's a cheating server then. Don't play there. Plenty of people will have non-cheating servers. Groups of friends run their own server. Sure, it won't be massive, but what game is? You're instanced off anyway, so having a server for each guild would be no problem.
  • GreatTeacherMacRossGreatTeacherMacRoss
    edited June 2010
    The ability to cheat. Plain and simple. That and the concept of a persistent world.
    You're not getting it. If people could run their own servers, it would be a MUD situation. Each server would be a persistent MMO. Just like in the olden days when anyone could fire up their own copy of DikuMUD and make a world. If someone is cheating, who cares? That's a cheating server then. Don't play there. Plenty of people will have non-cheating servers. Groups of friends run their own server. Sure, it won't be massive, but what game is? You're instanced off anyway, so having a server for each guild would be no problem.
    I point out again, Planetside had limits on planets/continents, but did not really have 'instances' as they do in other games. WWII online had a similar thing going. You don't NEED instances in a game. Additionally, like I pointed out, few people have the power to run a non-text based MMO-anything from a single home computer. Chromehounds would still be a viable game if that was the case. Also, the size and level of persistence on each individual server would be severely limited because, again, most normal people don't have amazing computers. Hell, you can't even play on a computer you're hosting a server from for MMO's because no computer that any person could reasonably afford has that sort of power.

    EDIT: I just realized you are (at least I think you are) arguing from a Player vs. Environment type of game, which makes sense for what you're pointing out. I'm talking Player vs. Player here. Screw a 14 hour endeavor to get some epic helmet that adds to your stats or just looks different. Give me Planetside-style where you have a wide selection of equipment and have to specialize in using some of it at any given time and your goal is to take down an opposing group or defend against an opposing group of players. Make it huge.
    Post edited by GreatTeacherMacRoss on
  • AprecheApreche
    I point out again, Planetside had limits on planets/continents, but did not really have 'instances' as they do in other games. WWII online had a similar thing going. You don't NEED instances in a game. Additionally, like I pointed out, few people have the power to run a non-text based MMO-anything from a single home computer. Chromehounds would still be a viable game if that was the case. Also, the size and level of persistence on each individual server would be severely limited because, again, most normal people don't have amazing computers. Hell, you can't even play on a computer you're hosting a server from for MMO's because no computer that any person could reasonably afford has that sort of power.

    EDIT: I just realized you are (at least I think you are) arguing from a Player vs. Environment type of game, which makes sense for what you're pointing out. I'm talking Player vs. Player here. Screw a 14 hour endeavor to get some epic helmet that adds to your stats or just looks different. Give me Planetside-style where you have a wide selection of equipment and have to specialize in using some of it at any given time and your goal is to take down an opposing group or defend against an opposing group of players. Make it huge.
    You're just plain wrong.

    1) Planets/continents in planetside are the same as instances. If someone is in a separate area from you, you aren't playing with them. They're effectively in a separate game.
    2) There are a fuckton of pirated servers out there for WoW and other MMOs. Yes, they can not handle nearly the number of players that the official servers can, but they handle enough.
    3) PvE or PvP makes no difference.
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    edited June 2010
    Planets/continents in planetside are the same as instances. If someone is in a separate area from you, you aren't playing with them. They're effectively in a separate game.
    This point is kind of moot, in that, even if you could create a game where you could technically interact with any other person instantaneously, what would be the point?

    The day I can run around a kingdom, even with just Zelda graphics, with my friends, attacking towns of other players, building farms and engaging in political intrigue is the day I withdraw from society forever.
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • GreatTeacherMacRossGreatTeacherMacRoss
    edited June 2010
    You're just plain wrong.

    1) Planets/continents in planetside are the same as instances. If someone is in a separate area from you, you aren't playing with them. They're effectively in a separate game.
    And your solution to massive areas with no separations would be what? It's not like they're the WoW instances where ten people affect only each other. If a continent/planet is taken by a faction in Planetside, the entire faction gets bonuses as well as a defensive lock on the continent. How does this not affect other players?
    2) There are a fuckton of pirated servers out there for WoW and other MMOs. Yes, they can not handle nearly the number of players that the official servers can, but they handle enough.
    Pirate servers are janky and not worth the time to hack your game software to play on. Again, I want you to provide me with an answer for a game that has thousands of players in an FPS environment which is persistent that doesn't require the power of a ludicrously advanced computer than any schmuck can have in his house. Some pirate job? I think not.
    3) PvE or PvP makes no difference.
    image
    So, obviously, you can just play on any NS server and use bots alone, since there's no difference.
    Post edited by GreatTeacherMacRoss on
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    For the subscription price of an MMO, you can just go buy some Warhammer miniatures
    Not enough to matter. Do you know what 15 bucks gets you in terms of miniatures? Nothing. A single Space Marine Tactical Squad of 10 models costs about 30 bucks, and that's cheap. I typically run 4 10-man Tac squads in a 2000 point army, and that only uses up a bit more than half of my points allotment.

    Warhammer is a crazy expensive hobby.
  • AprecheApreche
    edited June 2010
    Not enough to matter. Do you know what 15 bucks gets you in terms of miniatures? Nothing. A single Space Marine Tactical Squad of 10 models costs about 30 bucks, and that's cheap. I typically run 4 10-man Tac squads in a 2000 point army, and that only uses up a bit more than half of my points allotment.

    Warhammer is a crazy expensive hobby.
    50 bucks for the game, and then 15 bucks PER MONTH. How many month will you play? You forgot to multiply. Many people forget to multiply. World of Warcraft came out in November of '04. If you've been playing it since the beginning, not counting the free trial period or anything, at $15 per month that's $1020. That's a lot of fucking money for one video game considering the fact that the same money could buy you 20 full price video games, and probably a lot more games on Steam and such. You don't have to pay a monthly fee for your minis. You buy them once, and then don't buy anymore.

    Also, you can easily play a non-GW game that isn't as ludicrously expensive.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • ChurbaChurba
    Not enough to matter. Do you know what 15 bucks gets you in terms of miniatures? Nothing. A single Space Marine Tactical Squad of 10 models costs about 30 bucks, and that's cheap. I typically run 4 10-man Tac squads in a 2000 point army, and that only uses up a bit more than half of my points allotment.

    Warhammer is a crazy expensive hobby.
    Gotta admit, they did make one particularly smart move with the figures - There was a guy making bootleg Pewter minatures, and people were crazy for them. Did they sue him? Did they try to put him outta business? Nope. They bought his company and employed him, said "that thing you do, keep doing it, but do it for us, and we'll pay you" and now they make a shitload of money from over-priced pewter miniatures.
  • GreatTeacherMacRossGreatTeacherMacRoss
    Not enough to matter. Do you know what 15 bucks gets you in terms of miniatures? Nothing. A single Space Marine Tactical Squad of 10 models costs about 30 bucks, and that's cheap. I typically run 4 10-man Tac squads in a 2000 point army, and that only uses up a bit more than half of my points allotment.

    Warhammer is a crazy expensive hobby.
    50 bucks for the game, and then 15 bucks PER MONTH. How many month will you play? You forgot to multiply. Many people forget to multiply. World of Warcraft came out in November of '04. If you've been playing it since the beginning, not counting the free trial period or anything, at $15 per month that's $1020. That's a lot of fucking money for one video game consideing the fact that the same money could buy you 20 full price video games, and probably a lot more games on Steam and such.
    The experiences are completely different. One you're paying for physical miniatures that need to be put together and painted, are usually plastic, and have grown more expensive every single year for less and less model per dollar. You also can not play unless there is someone around to play with. Know how many people played WH40K tabletop while I was at RIT? Pete. And we didn't even know each other then. I didn't play ONCE in four years. I got exactly zero dollars worth of entertainment for my investment. Additionally, GW is constantly bullshitting up everything by releasing new rules and books which inevitably fuck up your army, forcing you to buy new books and new minis. I'd argue that this can end up being WAY more expensive than playing an MMO.
    Do I LIKE the idea of paying $15/month for a game? No. But I find the amount of entertainment and enjoyment I get for that $15 more than the amount I get (or was getting) on the minis. It's the same reason I ditched all WH40K material for the Dawn of War game series. It has everything I love about the universe in a game form that I also enjoy and lacks basically nothing. It's why I spent the money on Planetside at the time. It provided an experience I could not get if it were a miniature tabletop battle.
    Again, I draw the comparison, instead of playing NS on the PC, make it a tabletop game and try to tell me the experience is exactly the same.
  • GreatTeacherMacRossGreatTeacherMacRoss
    Not enough to matter. Do you know what 15 bucks gets you in terms of miniatures? Nothing. A single Space Marine Tactical Squad of 10 models costs about 30 bucks, and that's cheap. I typically run 4 10-man Tac squads in a 2000 point army, and that only uses up a bit more than half of my points allotment.

    Warhammer is a crazy expensive hobby.
    Gotta admit, they did make one particularly smart move with the figures - There was a guy making bootleg Pewter minatures, and people were crazy for them. Did they sue him? Did they try to put him outta business? Nope. They bought his company and employed him, said "that thing you do, keep doing it, but do it for us, and we'll pay you" and now they make a shitload of money from over-priced pewter miniatures.
    Last time I checked, GW minis are almost exclusively plastic now. The upside is that they are easier to modify and glue together, the down side is they would make a formerly awesome pewter model into a less interesting plastic model with fewer parts and options, and then raise the goddamned price. The Dark Angels Dreadnought was what really put me over the edge into "Fuck you guys. I'm going home." territory with GW. They took a model that was pewter and like, 25 bucks, took out all the custom weapons, made it plastic, and made it like $32. Fuck. That. Shit.
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    edited June 2010
    $15 per month that's $1020
    Yeah. I wish I had only spent a grand on WH40k over the 5 years when I was really active. Trust me on this one. The MMO version is actually a cheaper investment than the actual game.
    Also, you can easily play a non-GW game that isn't as ludicrously expensive.
    Any game, sure. But there is no other game like Warhammer that is as good. WarMachine tried, but it's an inferior game.
    took out all the custom weapons, made it plastic, and made it like $32
    The Dreadnought kit is up to $45. However, it also includes all of the Dreadnought accessories - the assault cannon, twin-linked lascannon, missile launcher, and close combat weapon. It also includes a vehicle accessory sprue. The Venerable Dreadnought kit, strangely enough, is cheaper and includes more stuff.

    The new plastic kits are way better than the old pewter kits. Trust me, I own a bunch of both, and the new plastic kits have more detailed models that are easier to paint and easier to mod. They also have shit tons of options. I have several boxes of bitz left over from buying a handful of new squad boxes.

    EDIT: Fuck me. I want an Ironclad Dreadnought. That thing looks awesome.
    Post edited by TheWhaleShark on
  • ChurbaChurba
    Last time I checked, GW minis are almost exclusively plastic now. The upside is that they are easier to modify and glue together, the down side is they would make a formerly awesome pewter model into a less interesting plastic model with fewer parts and options,and then raise the goddamned price. The Dark Angels Dreadnought was what really put me over the edge into "Fuck you guys. I'm going home." territory with GW. They took a model that was pewter and like, 25 bucks, took out all the custom weapons, made it plastic, and made it like $32. Fuck. That. Shit.
    Not quite - I'm talking about the Premium buy-a-single-figure-and-it-still-costs-you-25-bucks kinda deal, which if my last visit the other day to the GW shop in town is any indication, is still going swimmingly.
  • OmnutiaOmnutia
    edited June 2010
    Tangentially related to this thread in general.
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • TheWhaleSharkTheWhaleShark
    Not quite - I'm talking about the Premium buy-a-single-figure-and-it-still-costs-you-25-bucks kinda deal, which if my last visit the other day to the GW shop in town is any indication, is still going swimmingly.
    Yeah. The "Limited Edition" models or whatever? They have commander kits, special HQ units, and so forth. I don't know that I see them for $25, but $15 - $18 for single special models is pretty common. $25 bucks usually gets you a full kit.
  • WyattWyatt
    -I want to see Necromunda in this game. I actually think starting in a gang and working your way up through that Marine ranks would be pretty sweet. I've played some of the 40K P&P tabletop and thought that was fun.

    -I already can't wait for the Space Wolves expansion. Fuckin' loves me some Space Vikings... and Astro-zombie Necrons... and Tau...

    -It looks like you directly controlled the squad leader and gave orders to the rest of your squad.
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