I'm really hoping Pete's Burning THAC0 becomes one of those long term games. It'll be interesting to play BW more then once an month and with less the a dozen ppl. I really want to see how the game handles a 3LP outwardly focused action game. I'm still learning the "meta" game bits and want to try some new ideas out in actual play. I'm perhaps a little too excited for this game but expect great things... Otherwise, Pete is getting a dick punch of screwing my other perfectly good game.
I'm really hoping Pete's Burning THAC0 becomes one of those long term games.
That's the idea. The handy part about having adventuring as part of the buy-in is that you really only need to come up with some kind of contrivance as to why you're going into this dungeon. I can even whip out old modules.
I played Monaco at GDC this past year, and it was my favorite game from the show. I played it with the guy demoing it (a friend of the creator who was watching the demo station while the creator was taking a break,) and another random person from the crowd. With very little communication between us we managed to quickly do what we were supposed to (based on our class,) and complete the levels.
Since then I've been really wanting to play it again. It's release will not come soon enough.
Additionally your argument about leveling as part of a cycle of fun/achievement is true, that's what it does most of the time. But it seemed like you were confusing leveling with tech trees. Tech/skill trees aren't about giving the player a sense of achievement like leveling does, their purpose is more meant to give the player an ability to customize their character. It's about a player feeling more connected to their avatar/character, which makes them more immersed in the game while leveling is more about player's engagement with the game.
And yes,S'quarrelswas a fun game and a good buy. Perfect for when you need a quick game.
I was happily surprised at how much fun this game is. I was a little dubious when we sat down to try it out (but the stuffed squirrel was too cute to resist n.n ) but ended up having a really good time. I figure that squarrels will be something nice to bust out while we wait for people to show up for game night or for the times when the casual gamers outnumber the rest of us. >.
The Tetris video was in the Things of the Day thread a few weeks ago. It was stuck in my head for quite some time after that. Just as I got it out, Rym had to put it back in! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Perhaps we are predisposed to liking steak because of the level of effort invested in having to hunt down and kill an animal? Obviously it takes no effort now, but the love for steak could have been passed down from prior generations? Or this could be the dumbest thing I've ever speculated. Not quite sure yet.
Powerboat with weapons sounds like Thunder in Paradise:
I'd really like to give Powerboats a shot, though. Maybe you guys could bring it to a future boardgame night or recess?
Oh, and Super Meat Boy is going to be an instant purchase for me. I have been looking forward to this game for months! It is actually a sequel to the original Meat Boy, which is a game on Newgrounds. Super Meat Boy is just a more polished and longer version of this. Super Meat Boy also has these special challenge areas you can enter by getting to hard-to-reach places. These special areas are all graphically themed in a retro style, so there is an 8-bit area, a 16-bit area, and even a pea soup green tinted 8-bit area reminiscent of the original Game Boy. Looks extremely well done.
The whole idea of a Geeknights PAX party is awesome, but you have no idea how expensive it is go get a hotel ballroom. They usually refuse to rent them out unless you commit to some hugely overpriced food service package.
Oh my bad got mixed up. Right after the discussion on powerboats Rym said something about buying a game. Must have been whichever game you discussed next. I was half paying attention to that part.
Geeknights 20100914 - PAX Prime 2010 & The Games of PAX
Expanded Show Notes - Show Run Time: 01:13:09
Time | Notes ---------+---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00:00 | Intro 00:00:26 | Opening Chit-Chat & News | - Pax & post-Pax timeline | - Scott plays grammatical semantics | - Counter-Strike and new servers | - On weird common settings for Counter-Strike Servers | - On gaming backlog | - How to handle multiplayer games where levels can be disparate | - Equipment versus levels and abilities? | - Scott posits that people who enjoy tech-tree games are psychologically fooling themselves | - Argument on psychological rewards of leveling up | - Scott doesn't agree with personal tastes being a factor in enjoyment of gaming | - Meta on Con Recap shows | - New format - show will recap the con as well as focus on the games played. | - Games played at the con | - Tangent on Scott's consistent memory failure | - Freemarket! Scott ran it for GM practice in addition to the demo | - Meta-problem - how does a crappy GM get better? Practice. How can he practice if no one wants to play? | - Bad GM + Inexperienced Players = bad experience for the players, they won't play again | - Bad GM + Experienced Players = Experienced players will walk out | - Freemarket is easy if you're able to come up with good flavor text on the fly | - Scott on making flavor text not suck: Pick at least three senses to describe what's going on | - Discussion of Indie-RPG mechanics | - Experienced GM can do Freemarket at a con in 4 hours | - On applying rules in Freemarket versus D&D-like systems | - Powerboats | - - Racing game with good mechanics - even on the "easy mode" it was still very fun | - - On new mechanics that could make Powerboats better | - Modern Art | - - Discussion of "bidding games" | - On buying boardgames, reboxing, and print-and-play games | - On the morality of making your own copy of a board game - is it piracy? | - Push Fight | - - Rym compares it to Nim | - Bohnanza | - - Game looks stupid but is fun | - - Bidding on beans | - - The Shtick is a lot of the fun of the game | - - The Ultra-Rare Cocoa Bean! | - - Bidding Games & Left/Right Mechanics | - We Didn't Playtest This At All | - - Similar to Flux but with almost no rules | - - Rules change at random depending on what cards are played | - - Potential WDPTAA tourney at Connecticon | - Squarrels | - - Squirrels fighting over nuts in sets of three | - - Matching mechanics a la Rummy, with a bit of Slap-Jack and War | - Dominion | - - Lots of fun at the con | - Roll Through The Ages | - - Yahtzee meets Civilization | - Jungle Speed | - - Quick game | - Catacombs | - - Dexterity game where you flick things at targets meets Dungeon Crawler | - - Conceptually good | - - Small board, not very precise | - - Rym suggests making the board shuffleboard sized and running it at a con | - Poo-Flinging Game | - - Play cards to fling poo at the other monkeys (players) 00:40:02 | Things of the Day | - Scott on fools riding fixies with no helmets | - Track Bicycle Racing | - Track Bicycle Racing Tactics & Drafting | - Japanese track racing | Scott's Thing - Bicycle Slow Race | - "Pig With the Face of a Boy" - musical comedy band in the UK | - Tetris as a metaphor for the Soviet Union | Rym's Thing - Complete History of the Soviet Union, Arranged to the Melody of Tetris 00:48:30 | Main Topic | - More PAX Gaming Goodness | - Expo Hall was off the hook | - Huge booths full of spectacle | - Games that stood out beyond the spectacle | - Duke Nukem Forever | - - Solid black booth, security guards outside, and a huge queue | - - Portraits of Duke outside the booth | - - Rym got to skip the line thanks to Jon St. John | - - Game is an homage to the games of an earlier era - lots of sex and violence | - PAX 10 games | - Super Meat Boy | - - Platform game, hard as balls, requires precision | - Retro City Rampage | - - Top-down 2D game like the original GTA games | - - AI is very smart | - - Wii-only | - Monaco | - - Top-down heist game | - - Creator will be on future show | - Spy Party | - - Two-person game | - - Sniper versus Spy | - Jam City Rollergirls | - - Roller Derby meets Mario-style sports | - Name-dropping Luke Crane | - Sidebar on Roller Derby | - Lines in the Expo Hall were huge | - Portal 2 | - Tangent on taking a day off to play a game on release day | - Civ V | - Tangent on laptops and gaming | - Rage | - Firefall - Tribes-like game from the creators of WoW and Tribes | - Brink | - Lego Universe MMO | - - Scott on Why This Game Isn't Worth Your Time: The whole world isn't Lego | - - Rym: The whole game should be nothing but Lego and you should be able to build anywhere | - Massive amounts of gaming on Thursday in the Sheraton lobby | - Planning a PAX Prime 2011 Pre-Party - sponsors wanted! | - Upcoming show will be the actual review of PAX | - Shout-outs | - Zombie Dice 01:12:11 | Outro
Scott: Have you ever read Robin's Laws of Good Game Mastering? If not, it's a short book (if you can even call it that) and won't take long to read. It can be very useful in helping to plan gaming sessions as well as dealing with off-the-cuff creation of scenarios and NPCs.
I was pleased to hear you guys mention Monaco. I've been keeping an eye on the development of this game for a while and it'll be interesting to hear the creator's take on it.
I was also somewhat surprised to hear your apparent lack of interest in Firefall, considering it is being developed by former devs of Tribes and the game is a Cooperative Team-based Shooter, not an MMO, and is more of a twitch game that is skill-based than a click-and-drool MMO-style interface.
I was also somewhat surprised to hear your apparent lack of interest in Firefall, considering it is being developed by former devs of Tribes and the game is a Cooperative Team-based Shooter, not an MMO, and is more of a twitch game that is skill-based than a click-and-drool MMO-style interface.
Despite how awesome this game looks and feels, I will give you one reason why it will probably fail: it is a 100% free game supported by micro-transactions for powerful items. So it's basically Tribes 3: FarmVille edition. I don't know why but I'm not seeing this reported anywhere. I interviewed their CEO at PAX and he was very clear about that fact. Seems like the strategy is in line with the fact that Red 5 Studios was bought out by a Chinese company, as they tend to favor that business model I think.
Seems like the strategy is in line with the fact that Red 5 Studios was bought out by a Chinese company, as they tend to favor that business model I think.
Oh, tell me about it. The micro-transaction vs. monthly subscription East/West line is a difficult balance to strike when you are trying for both markets.
I always considered skill trees to be quite different to levelling up.
Sure, it sucks to play a game where you are many levels below someone else because then you either are just tagging along while they kill everything, or they have to come to your area and basically just act as a meat shield while you grind away.
But skill trees don’t make you feel more powerful as such, they unlock different ways to play the game. Open up different strategies or tactics that were just 1 level ago, not available. I guess it keeps the game play fresh, or perhaps evolves it over the course of maxing out your class.
More levels = more damage output and take more hits. Yes, it makes you feel like a bad ass.
More Skill trees – Opens up different game play options and the ability to make you class specialised or more to your particular play style. Not necessarily more powerful, just different.
Comments
Since then I've been really wanting to play it again. It's release will not come soon enough.
Additionally your argument about leveling as part of a cycle of fun/achievement is true, that's what it does most of the time. But it seemed like you were confusing leveling with tech trees. Tech/skill trees aren't about giving the player a sense of achievement like leveling does, their purpose is more meant to give the player an ability to customize their character. It's about a player feeling more connected to their avatar/character, which makes them more immersed in the game while leveling is more about player's engagement with the game.
I vaguely remember you singing that song. I did watch the video yesterday, and it is all kinds of awesome.
Powerboat with weapons sounds like Thunder in Paradise:
I'd really like to give Powerboats a shot, though. Maybe you guys could bring it to a future boardgame night or recess?
Someone on Board Game Geek actually made poo out of sculpey to play poo with: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/770271/poo-the-card-game
Oh, and Super Meat Boy is going to be an instant purchase for me. I have been looking forward to this game for months! It is actually a sequel to the original Meat Boy, which is a game on Newgrounds. Super Meat Boy is just a more polished and longer version of this. Super Meat Boy also has these special challenge areas you can enter by getting to hard-to-reach places. These special areas are all graphically themed in a retro style, so there is an 8-bit area, a 16-bit area, and even a pea soup green tinted 8-bit area reminiscent of the original Game Boy. Looks extremely well done.
The whole idea of a Geeknights PAX party is awesome, but you have no idea how expensive it is go get a hotel ballroom. They usually refuse to rent them out unless you commit to some hugely overpriced food service package.
Geeknights 20100914 - PAX Prime 2010 & The Games of PAX
Expanded Show Notes - Show Run Time: 01:13:09
Time | Notes
---------+----------------------------------------------------------
00:00:00 | Intro
00:00:26 | Opening Chit-Chat & News
| - Pax & post-Pax timeline
| - Scott plays grammatical semantics
| - Counter-Strike and new servers
| - On weird common settings for Counter-Strike Servers
| - On gaming backlog
| - How to handle multiplayer games where levels can be disparate
| - Equipment versus levels and abilities?
| - Scott posits that people who enjoy tech-tree games are psychologically fooling themselves
| - Argument on psychological rewards of leveling up
| - Scott doesn't agree with personal tastes being a factor in enjoyment of gaming
| - Meta on Con Recap shows
| - New format - show will recap the con as well as focus on the games played.
| - Games played at the con
| - Tangent on Scott's consistent memory failure
| - Freemarket! Scott ran it for GM practice in addition to the demo
| - Meta-problem - how does a crappy GM get better? Practice. How can he practice if no one wants to play?
| - Bad GM + Inexperienced Players = bad experience for the players, they won't play again
| - Bad GM + Experienced Players = Experienced players will walk out
| - Freemarket is easy if you're able to come up with good flavor text on the fly
| - Scott on making flavor text not suck: Pick at least three senses to describe what's going on
| - Discussion of Indie-RPG mechanics
| - Experienced GM can do Freemarket at a con in 4 hours
| - On applying rules in Freemarket versus D&D-like systems
| - Powerboats
| - - Racing game with good mechanics - even on the "easy mode" it was still very fun
| - - On new mechanics that could make Powerboats better
| - Modern Art
| - - Discussion of "bidding games"
| - On buying boardgames, reboxing, and print-and-play games
| - On the morality of making your own copy of a board game - is it piracy?
| - Push Fight
| - - Rym compares it to Nim
| - Bohnanza
| - - Game looks stupid but is fun
| - - Bidding on beans
| - - The Shtick is a lot of the fun of the game
| - - The Ultra-Rare Cocoa Bean!
| - - Bidding Games & Left/Right Mechanics
| - We Didn't Playtest This At All
| - - Similar to Flux but with almost no rules
| - - Rules change at random depending on what cards are played
| - - Potential WDPTAA tourney at Connecticon
| - Squarrels
| - - Squirrels fighting over nuts in sets of three
| - - Matching mechanics a la Rummy, with a bit of Slap-Jack and War
| - Dominion
| - - Lots of fun at the con
| - Roll Through The Ages
| - - Yahtzee meets Civilization
| - Jungle Speed
| - - Quick game
| - Catacombs
| - - Dexterity game where you flick things at targets meets Dungeon Crawler
| - - Conceptually good
| - - Small board, not very precise
| - - Rym suggests making the board shuffleboard sized and running it at a con
| - Poo-Flinging Game
| - - Play cards to fling poo at the other monkeys (players)
00:40:02 | Things of the Day
| - Scott on fools riding fixies with no helmets
| - Track Bicycle Racing
| - Track Bicycle Racing Tactics & Drafting
| - Japanese track racing
| Scott's Thing - Bicycle Slow Race
| - "Pig With the Face of a Boy" - musical comedy band in the UK
| - Tetris as a metaphor for the Soviet Union
| Rym's Thing - Complete History of the Soviet Union, Arranged to the Melody of Tetris
00:48:30 | Main Topic
| - More PAX Gaming Goodness
| - Expo Hall was off the hook
| - Huge booths full of spectacle
| - Games that stood out beyond the spectacle
| - Duke Nukem Forever
| - - Solid black booth, security guards outside, and a huge queue
| - - Portraits of Duke outside the booth
| - - Rym got to skip the line thanks to Jon St. John
| - - Game is an homage to the games of an earlier era - lots of sex and violence
| - PAX 10 games
| - Super Meat Boy
| - - Platform game, hard as balls, requires precision
| - Retro City Rampage
| - - Top-down 2D game like the original GTA games
| - - AI is very smart
| - - Wii-only
| - Monaco
| - - Top-down heist game
| - - Creator will be on future show
| - Spy Party
| - - Two-person game
| - - Sniper versus Spy
| - Jam City Rollergirls
| - - Roller Derby meets Mario-style sports
| - Name-dropping Luke Crane
| - Sidebar on Roller Derby
| - Lines in the Expo Hall were huge
| - Portal 2
| - Tangent on taking a day off to play a game on release day
| - Civ V
| - Tangent on laptops and gaming
| - Rage
| - Firefall - Tribes-like game from the creators of WoW and Tribes
| - Brink
| - Lego Universe MMO
| - - Scott on Why This Game Isn't Worth Your Time: The whole world isn't Lego
| - - Rym: The whole game should be nothing but Lego and you should be able to build anywhere
| - Massive amounts of gaming on Thursday in the Sheraton lobby
| - Planning a PAX Prime 2011 Pre-Party - sponsors wanted!
| - Upcoming show will be the actual review of PAX
| - Shout-outs
| - Zombie Dice
01:12:11 | Outro
Scott: Have you ever read Robin's Laws of Good Game Mastering? If not, it's a short book (if you can even call it that) and won't take long to read. It can be very useful in helping to plan gaming sessions as well as dealing with off-the-cuff creation of scenarios and NPCs.
I was pleased to hear you guys mention Monaco. I've been keeping an eye on the development of this game for a while and it'll be interesting to hear the creator's take on it.
I was also somewhat surprised to hear your apparent lack of interest in Firefall, considering it is being developed by former devs of Tribes and the game is a Cooperative Team-based Shooter, not an MMO, and is more of a twitch game that is skill-based than a click-and-drool MMO-style interface.
I always considered skill trees to be quite different to levelling up.
Sure, it sucks to play a game where you are many levels below someone else because then you either are just tagging along while they kill everything, or they have to come to your area and basically just act as a meat shield while you grind away.
But skill trees don’t make you feel more powerful as such, they unlock different ways to play the game. Open up different strategies or tactics that were just 1 level ago, not available. I guess it keeps the game play fresh, or perhaps evolves it over the course of maxing out your class.
More levels = more damage output and take more hits. Yes, it makes you feel like a bad ass.
More Skill trees – Opens up different game play options and the ability to make you class specialised or more to your particular play style. Not necessarily more powerful, just different.