Sam Adams uses two proprietary heavily genetically modified strains of yeast to get Utopia up to 27% without freeze distillation. It also takes like a decade to ferment.
Anything more than that requires true distillation or multiple freeze distillation steps.
It's worth noting that most beer yeast strains won't get you above 9% or so and most wine yeast won't go above maybe 12-13% without nutrient and sometimes aeration, as well as a lot of time. Adjust your expectations accordingly.
Actually, I can't find it right at the moment, but I read a cool interview a few months back with the head brewer at Dogfish Head about how they get some of their really big, high-ABV beers without fractionating or distilling. I remember he said it was basically done using a friggin' boatload of malt, a couple of proprietary super-yeast strains, and aerating.
Basically, you can brew quite readily in an apartment,
*cough* dorm room *cough*
Of course, freeze distillation still carries the risks of regular distillation, i.e. the concentrating of fusel alcohols and other toxins. I would proceed very carefully.
Would a charcoal filter take any of those out? On my plain batches I've been putting the near product through a dedicated brita water filter which clears it up quite a bit.
It's worth noting that most beer yeast strains won't get you above 9% or so and most wine yeast won't go above maybe 12-13% without nutrient and sometimes aeration, as well as a lot of time. Adjust your expectations accordingly.
I guess I should probably buy some actual brewers yeast one of these days instead of regular bread yeast.
friggin' boatload of malt, a couple of proprietary super-yeast strains, and aerating.
Yeah, that's basically how it work. Most beers at 10% and above take a lot of fiddling to get just right. Heavy aeration is a start, but a lot of barley wines use two yeast strains; the first one sort of kicks things off, and adds a lot of flavor, while the second one is used to attenuate the beer to its completion.
The biggest I've done so far is 8% (1.095 OG), which I did with a wild yeast and periodic fermenter rousing. Took about 5 weeks to hit terminal gravity, and 4 months to condition properly.
So I just got my first taste of this batch and Dayum it is strong. I don't know whether its the concentrated flavoring or the alcohol but Jesus Cripes! I think I've got myself some Thunderbird on my hands.
Does anyone else like watching their stuff ferment?
When I started off, I just had a 6.5 gallon opaque ale pail, so this wasn't an option. When I moved to 10 gallon batches, I decided to buy a 6 gallon Better Bottle carboy, because it was cheap and I wanted to check out my fermentation.
I fucking love watching the krausen "breathe," and I'm endlessly fascinated by watching yeast rafts rise and fall on alternating convection currents.
I still brew in a bucket, so I can't really watch it. I am sometimes fascinated by the bubbling airlock, though. That's a LOT of gas coming out of there!
I wonder if I can get a cider to 15% before freeze distillation. I'd probably need to start sugaring it at a certain point. However, after making applejack, I'd probably need a pot still to get rid of any pesky fusels hanging around.
Well my hawaiian punch hooch is pretty much finished, though now it is better than when I first tasted it since more of the dead yeast has been removed. A little while ago I just took out my strawberry-kiwi brew I'm making for a girl across the hall. So far it seems pretty good. I just bottled it and put it in the freezer so we'll see how it will turn out.
Pete, any idea if I can use agar plates to start these juniper yeast cultures and then introduce them into my cider, or do I need to start them in wort?
I wonder if I can hybridize this yeast in vitro in a 13% ABV environment with a cider yeast so that the alcohol-resistance is selected for, while the reliance on juniper berries is bred out.
EDIT: RELEVANT TO MY INTERESTS. This guy is working at my University. I may have just found a thesis project!
I think you, me, and Pete need to start talking seriously about this FRCF yeast idea floating around.
I have a wild yeast that I isolated from chocolate syrup a couple of years back. I use it for all of my brewing. I'm not sure if it's problematic or not yet, but I think it's probably fine, and that I've had a couple of lapses in sanitation that have resulted in two bad batches.
Pete, any idea if I can use agar plates to start these juniper yeast cultures and then introduce them into my cider, or do I need to start them in wort?
I would start the yeast in wort, with a stir plate, just to get it going. Afterwards, you can isolate them onto agar plates. I would highly recommend making malt extract agar; you can do it at home with a pressure cooker and a stove.
Here's my recipe:
70 g light dry malt extract 15 g agar-agar (from an Asian grocery store) 1 L distilled water
Mix in a flask and boil for 1 minute to dissolve. Dispense into smaller bottles or containers for easy pouring. Sterilize using your pressure cooker for 15 minutes at 15 PSI. If you're making plates, allow the sterile agar to cool to about 50 C before pouring aseptically into sterile glass petri dishes. Allow the agar to solidify, and store the plates in a small fridge separate from highly trafficked areas.
When you start the yeast in wort, you should shoot for a 1.040 OG wort. This is easily accomplished by dissolving X grams of DME in 10X mL of distilled water. 50 grams of DME in 500 mL of water will yield a 1.040 OG.
If you're thinking about storing wild yeast long-term, I would make malt extract agar slants, and I would also start a cryo bank in your freezer. If you need more information about banking microbes, I can expound on that later. I've yet to actually get mine going, but that's because I always seem to run short on time.
I wonder if I can hybridize this yeast in vitro in a 13% ABV environment with a cider yeast so that the alcohol-resistance is selected for, while the reliance on juniper berries is bred out.
I've always wanted to do this, but the generation times on yeast may make this take a long time. Still, it's a noble pursuit. Give it a go.
If you need more information about banking microbes, I can expound on that later. I've yet to actually get mine going, but that's because I always seem to run short on time.
I've actually got an uncle who's an artist that may have leftover cryo gear from an installation he did (that I helped with). I could probably ask him where to get a storage dewar.
I've actually got an uncle who's an artist that may have leftover cryo gear from an installation he did (that I helped with). I could probably ask him where to get a storage dewar.
Well, OK, liquid nitrogen is a bit excessive, honestly. You can adequately store them in your home freezer. It's not exactly full-on cryostorage, but it'll last for a good while.
Damn, y'all are serious business. I've thought about culturing, but never actually done it since it's so easy to get whatever you want from Wyeast. I can't afford to get all the supplies I'd need, so I'm gonna have to pick up the pace on stealing lab equipment from work if I'm to keep up. :P
Damn, y'all are serious business. I've thought about culturing, but never actually done it since it's so easy to get whatever you want from Wyeast. I can't afford to get all the supplies I'd need, so I'm gonna have to pick up the pace on stealing lab equipment from work if I'm to keep up. :P
Well, culturing a wild yeast isn't that hard. And United Nuclear sells plates and some limited bio equipment. If you're thrifty and creative, culturing can be cheap. Breeding is just hella complex.
My roommate just got back last night with with 10 pounds of sugar last night so I'm gonna whip up a big batch tonight. I'm thinking I will make a huge amount of it and freeze the fuck out of it until it can't freeze anymore, and then steep different kinds of fruits in it. Hopefully I can end up with a few bottles of a nice strawberry-kiwi or raspberry liqueur.
I need to start doing small test batches of beer and try to figure out where my process is failing me. It's irritating, because I'm sitting here staring at a glass of This is a Beer, and it would be an amazing blonde ale if it didn't taste like Band-aids and chloraseptic spray. It's a beautiful golden blonde - crystal clear with no chill haze at all - with just the right amount of bubbly white head, and yet it tastes like total garbage.
It might be my yeast or it might be my water, but I can't know which it is until I do a bunch of different tests.
It might be my yeast or it might be my water, but I can't know which it is until I do a bunch of different tes
I wouldn't be surprised if it was the water. Are you using filtered, or distilled water, or just tap water? There may be chemicals or something else that don't react well with the fermentation, or just give it an off taste. I'm no expert, but thats the way I see it.
On another note I just made an experimental batch of raspberry-kiwi "wine" that I'm hoping will turn out really well.
Suddenly, an idea: I'm going to set up the culture medium for the cider-juniper hybrid by pressing juniper berries and adding that to a cider-based growth medium. After 2 or 3 generation cycles, I'll slowly start reducing the quantity of juniper juice in solution for each generation to allow the yeast to select for genes that prefer cider.
Tap water. The first two batches I ever made were both made with spring water and my harvested yeast. These last 3 all-grain batches have been made with tap water and my yeast.
The thing is, the first two batches also had a slightly tart taste to them, and those were an Imperial stout and an old ale - two very strong styles that readily mask flaws in a beer. They did mature quite well after about 5 months, so it's possible that I might have to wait a while before this stuff will even out.
I'm actually leaning towards tap, though. It's possible that the residual chloride in Albany's tap water is just enough to react with the malt.
Comments
Actually, I can't find it right at the moment, but I read a cool interview a few months back with the head brewer at Dogfish Head about how they get some of their really big, high-ABV beers without fractionating or distilling. I remember he said it was basically done using a friggin' boatload of malt, a couple of proprietary super-yeast strains, and aerating.
The biggest I've done so far is 8% (1.095 OG), which I did with a wild yeast and periodic fermenter rousing. Took about 5 weeks to hit terminal gravity, and 4 months to condition properly.
BURMA SHAVE
When I started off, I just had a 6.5 gallon opaque ale pail, so this wasn't an option. When I moved to 10 gallon batches, I decided to buy a 6 gallon Better Bottle carboy, because it was cheap and I wanted to check out my fermentation.
I fucking love watching the krausen "breathe," and I'm endlessly fascinated by watching yeast rafts rise and fall on alternating convection currents.
Fuck, science is so awesome.
This is the start of something dangerous.
Or you can try haversting yeast from juniper berries.
I will check this out in the near future. Wish I'd know about this before paying 25 bucks for ProMash.
This is going to take some work. I'll have to start a mother.
A little while ago I just took out my strawberry-kiwi brew I'm making for a girl across the hall. So far it seems pretty good. I just bottled it and put it in the freezer so we'll see how it will turn out.
I wonder if I can hybridize this yeast in vitro in a 13% ABV environment with a cider yeast so that the alcohol-resistance is selected for, while the reliance on juniper berries is bred out.
EDIT: RELEVANT TO MY INTERESTS. This guy is working at my University. I may have just found a thesis project!
Yeah, gonna do this. Gonna do this for sure.
Here's my recipe:
70 g light dry malt extract
15 g agar-agar (from an Asian grocery store)
1 L distilled water
Mix in a flask and boil for 1 minute to dissolve. Dispense into smaller bottles or containers for easy pouring. Sterilize using your pressure cooker for 15 minutes at 15 PSI. If you're making plates, allow the sterile agar to cool to about 50 C before pouring aseptically into sterile glass petri dishes. Allow the agar to solidify, and store the plates in a small fridge separate from highly trafficked areas.
When you start the yeast in wort, you should shoot for a 1.040 OG wort. This is easily accomplished by dissolving X grams of DME in 10X mL of distilled water. 50 grams of DME in 500 mL of water will yield a 1.040 OG.
If you're thinking about storing wild yeast long-term, I would make malt extract agar slants, and I would also start a cryo bank in your freezer. If you need more information about banking microbes, I can expound on that later. I've yet to actually get mine going, but that's because I always seem to run short on time. I've always wanted to do this, but the generation times on yeast may make this take a long time. Still, it's a noble pursuit. Give it a go.
It might be my yeast or it might be my water, but I can't know which it is until I do a bunch of different tests.
On another note I just made an experimental batch of raspberry-kiwi "wine" that I'm hoping will turn out really well.
It's already dawg time.
The thing is, the first two batches also had a slightly tart taste to them, and those were an Imperial stout and an old ale - two very strong styles that readily mask flaws in a beer. They did mature quite well after about 5 months, so it's possible that I might have to wait a while before this stuff will even out.
I'm actually leaning towards tap, though. It's possible that the residual chloride in Albany's tap water is just enough to react with the malt.