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  • edited May 2013
    So a controversial report has been floating around about the trillions that would be added to the deficit by making millions of illegal immigrants into American citizens.
    I think you're conflating the deficit with the debt. As far as I know, the $6.3 trillion dollar figure they cite is over something like a 50-year period.
    That sounds about right. I think that came up on NPR news yesterday.

    As to Scott's question, why would you want to allow everyone to become citizens of your country. Would Scott feel the same way about people moving into his home?

    Some might call it racism but most of the anti-illegal immigrant ferver is directed at unskilled immigrants. Back to Scott's apartment, would Scott base acceptance of a roommate (not that he needs one) on that roommate's ability to pay their share of the bills or would he let freeloaders move in?

    Not saying that immigrants are freeloaders but that is the strawman that is out there in the immigration debate.
    Post edited by HMTKSteve on
  • Steve, the household / nation analogy is almost always a terrible one, and this is no exception.
  • Steve, the household / nation analogy is almost always a terrible one, and this is no exception.
    True, but that is how opponents of immigration reform are framing it.
  • So you haven't really answered Scott's question, then?
  • I don't understand why we don't allow almost anyone to become a legit citizen.
    If there were literally zero barrier to entry, it is not unreasonable to expect a severe burden on social welfare systems. It is also unlikely that there could ever be enough jobs for them.

    I'm for extreme immigration reform, amnesty, etc... But I'm not for unlimited entry. It's too destabilizing, and is likely to have many adverse effects.

    If the border were truly suddenly opened one day as a free-for-all, what do you think would happen?

  • Social welfare states probably can't exist without an ability to control their population growth. Modern states' populations grow almost entirely due to immigration. Controlling immigration into a state is like controlling the value of currency with a central bank. It's super effective, and there isn't a better way.
  • Obviously completely unlimited entry is stupid. But anyone who has a job, a marketable skill, isn't a crazy criminal, etc. Why not?
  • Obviously completely unlimited entry is stupid. But anyone who has a job, a marketable skill, isn't a crazy criminal, etc. Why not?
    We have a visa system for those people and those people are generally not the problem.

  • Obviously completely unlimited entry is stupid. But anyone who has a job, a marketable skill, isn't a crazy criminal, etc. Why not?
    Agreed, so long as physical space or infrastructure isn't an issue.

    What would be interesting is if we had our standard "if you're in, you're in and can go anywhere" immigration with its standard limits, but an additional option beyond that. What if individual states could say "we'll take more!" Set it up to where you just have to commit to living/working in that state for x years before you get "full" citizenship (but otherwise have all the rights of a citizen in the interim). Obviously, there are tons of edge cases, exceptions, and details, but the idea is to encourage population growth in places that can better manage it or desire it. Sort of a "plan B" for people who can't get in generally via the normal system (due likely to limitations).

    Imagine if Detroit said "hey, come on in!"

  • edited May 2013
    Obviously completely unlimited entry is stupid. But anyone who has a job, a marketable skill, isn't a crazy criminal, etc. Why not?
    We have a visa system for those people and those people are generally not the problem.
    Take it from someone who has not only been trying to get in for quite a while, but also knows more than one person who has either attempted or passed through the process - Your immigration system is a fucking nightmare. Forms galore, bizzare rules, self-contradictory rules, arbitrary decisions, and even if you're a literally perfect candidate and do everything perfectly and promptly, they can turn you down for any reason up to and including "lol idunno" and "WE made a mistake, so YOU pay the price, fucker!"

    The last application I was aware of was rejected, because the party didn't reply within the allotted time, to a letter that was postmarked AFTER the allotted time had passed, and you have practically no recourse in that situation, it's just tough bikkies.

    Post edited by Churba on
  • @Churba- we call those things 'hints'.
  • But I would be best American :(
  • I know quite a bit about some of the insane rules in our system, mostly from my parents' own experience as immigrants. For example, my mother actually had to have two weddings in order to get my dad into this country. She had to go back to Portugal to have a quickie wedding with a justice of the peace there in order for my dad to get the appropriate visas to come in (my mom already had a green card at the time and had been living in the US for several years already, whereas my dad had just gotten out of the Portuguese Army at the time). Once my dad got into the US, then they had their real wedding. Insane...
  • The richest "Christian nation" can't allow poor people in en masse. Jesus thought welfare was dumb. If we couldn't buy three more McDonald's hamburgers a week, how would we get into heaven?
  • The richest "Christian nation" can't allow poor people in en masse. Jesus thought welfare was dumb. If we couldn't buy three more McDonald's hamburgers a week, how would we get into heaven?
    image
  • Obviously completely unlimited entry is stupid. But anyone who has a job, a marketable skill, isn't a crazy criminal, etc. Why not?
    We have a visa system for those people and those people are generally not the problem.
    Take it from someone who has not only been trying to get in for quite a while, but also knows more than one person who has either attempted or passed through the process - Your immigration system is a fucking nightmare.
    YEP. A good friend of mine (from the UK) is having lots of difficulties with this - and he's far from unskilled; he's a Web developer with a degree in software engineering.
  • The richest "Christian nation" can't allow poor people in en masse. Jesus thought welfare was dumb. If we couldn't buy three more McDonald's hamburgers a week, how would we get into heaven?
    We're not a Christian nation and you know it. Source: Treaty of Tripoli, ratified or supported by Washington, Adams, and Jefferson.
  • The richest "Christian nation" can't allow poor people in en masse. Jesus thought welfare was dumb. If we couldn't buy three more McDonald's hamburgers a week, how would we get into heaven?
    We're not a Christian nation and you know it. Source: Treaty of Tripoli, ratified or supported by Washington, Adams, and Jefferson.
    By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
  • A scandal more scandalous then Benghazi. http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/16/obama-breaches-marine-umbrella-protocol/ Umbrella-gate!
  • A scandal more scandalous then Benghazi. http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/16/obama-breaches-marine-umbrella-protocol/ Umbrella-gate!
    I laughed my ass off on that one. Couldn't tell if it was legit or an attempt at satire.

  • More like rainwater-gate.
  • People sure like to talk about lotteries.
  • People sure like to talk about lotteries.
    For the same reason they like fantasy novels. They like to imagine living in a magical land.
  • Well if they're just purchasing a fantasy novel, I won't begrudge them as much.
  • http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/business/judge-rules-for-interns-who-sued-fox-searchlight.html

    A lawsuit has finally gone through over unpaid internships in the film industry, which should hopefully make some media companies take a second look at their policies and should slightly improve the prospects of some of my friends. As Scrym is so fond of reminding us, most unpaid internships are illegal.
  • Or it might lead to less opportunity because people have to be paid?
  • Or it might lead to less opportunity because people have to be paid?
    Define "opportunity"? If there's no pay involved, I wouldn't call it "opportunity." I'd call it "indentured servitude."
  • Internships are only opportunity for the children of well-off families who can afford to "work" without pay in order to network.
  • edited June 2013
    Rym has it - the only people who lose opportunity are those who already have more than enough.
    Post edited by Linkigi(Link-ee-jee) on
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