As a (granted, not yet successful) writer myself, I have serious moral reservations with that... :P
I did download The Gathering Storm from TPB, but only because Harriet deliberately delayed the e-book release until a year after the hardcover. I still ended up guiltily buying the hardcover and sticking it on a shelf, never opened.
Is there a difference between downloading this book and reading it or getting it from my public library and reading it?
Yes. The public library limits the number of copies that can be "on loan" at any one time and at least theoretically should have a lesser impact on potential sales/royalties for the author through controlled scarcity.
Do you think that authors deserve to be paid for their work?
Piracy is a fact of the modern world. It is the responsibility of the content producer to be better than free, not the end user to pay for something they don't have to. It's scary to think about (I worry that Hardboiled might have all of one sale, and then everyone else will just pirate it) but frankly it's reality now and if you weren't giving them your money in the first place there is no reason to feel guilty over pirating it. When people inevitably pirate my product, it is my fault for insufficiently incentivizing them to give me money, not there fault for being smart enough to avoid paying money for something they can get for free.
And honestly, no, I don't think that authors have some kind of right to be paid for their work. They have an opportunity to separate stupid people from their money, it's not the same thing. I'm banking on the fact I write good product and that people are very dumb.
That all sounds good on paper but it's utterly substance-free in practice. A work of writing can be endlessly, perfectly copied. What added value are you going to produce that will prevent piracy? Merchandising? That's trite.
Exactly. There is no method. There is nothing you can do to stop piracy that does not make people less likely to give you money anyway. As a content producer, do I prefer this? No, of course not. But there is no other way.
Also, don't knock the merch. People will, for some reason, pay out the nose for stupid bullshit with your shit scrawled on it. I'm looking into the production of custom playing cards, dice and cheap-ass poker chips to go with Hardboiled.
Yes. The public library limits the number of copies that can be "on loan" at any one time and at least theoretically should have a lesser impact on potential sales/royalties for the author through controlled scarcity.
Do you think that authors deserve to be paid for their work?
I worked for the library at my university and it's trivial to get a book from any library affiliated, so your artificial scarcity doesn't exist except when it comes to textbooks.
Of course authors deserve to be paid for their works, but there are public options available so I can read them for free. Hell, discussing the works drums up business as people get interested and seek out their works.
Are you against loaning books to people because it denies authors money?
If all it takes to deserve pay is to do work, then I'm going to be loaded. I've done tons of work for which I have not been paid. You may or may not have benefited from that work. You now OWE me even though you never agreed to pay me.
What about the people who worked very very hard on really shitty books. Do they deserve money? What about the people who pulled an amazing book out of their ass in five minutes without working hard at all. Do they deserve to be paid?
Capitalism does not pay people based on effort. Doing work, even hard grueling work for a long period of time, does not entitle you to being paid. To receive pay you must do work that other people are willing to pay for. You are not willing to pay $13 for the book. An act of piracy hurts noone. No harm, no foul.
So your argument is that patronage is dead, and content producers should work for the love of content in between flipping burgers.
We currently don't have a better idea.
We do, actually. It's produce stupid bullshit to con people out of their cash by creating a brand. People will pirate Hardboiled like crazy, but I'll definitely be able to move some units on playing cards emblazoned with dieselpunk detailing.
Creative people are basically drug dealers. We're sort of an evil blight on society because we convince people they want the high of experiencing our product and we charge out the nose for it. That people have found a way around it is to be celebrated, and us pushers need to find a new way.
Apreche your game theory style of life is not something I'm going to debate again. :-)
Rym - true, but there's got to be something. Kickstarter seems like a good start, in that patronage comes before the product, but it's not long term enough.
Yay, another book I need to read! Andrew has been trying to get me to read the Prince of Nothing but I keep getting distracted by life stuff (like my ginormous sudden costume-making obsession). >_> I've been meaning to get my first ever audiobook to listen to in my commutes and while exercising, maybe this wizard book will be a good candidate. (spare me your arguments against audiobooks, you'll be preaching to the choir).
Oh for the sake of joining the argument. I think if a work is good enough, people will be willing to pay. No work is immune, no matter how awesome it is, but it will at least spread to the honest people willing to pay for stuff they love. :-P
People also forget. Paying for art in this manner is something that isn't very old at all. Having mass distributed consumable entertianment media is something that is maybe a century old tops. It was an idea that only worked for a short period of time in our history. That time is now over. Yet, the time was long enough that people have forgotten how things used to be. Drop some sunglasses down from the sky, I say.
I don't think people who fail to pirate a product are honest. I think they are stupid. If there was a way to get food with no effort and no money, we would not call people who refused to go to the supermarket honest.
I don't think people who fail to pirate a product are honest. I think they are stupid. If there was a way to get food with no effort and no money, we would not call people who refused to go to the supermarket honest.
Really??? I'm fucking stupid because I'm willing to pay for a work of art I appreciate so the creator can fucking produce more of it? Wow. Go ahead, try to create your utopian society where nobody pays or works for anything and see where that goes.
It's not utopian. It kind of completely fucking sucks for artists, such as myself. But it is reality. Artists are not charity cases; if they fail to figure out a way to trick and fraud people into giving them money in exchange for endorphins, then the failure is all them.
When I see something I really like, I still buy their stuff. I bought Kate Beaton's book even though all the content was openly free, because I wanted to be able to physically show it to other people. I am glad the book was for sale and I am glad I bought it, but that just makes Kate Beaton a good con artist and me a stupid mark.
Unlike you sketchbook, some people's work is actually worth paying for.
Oh come now.
Stop. You have no way of knowing if I can produce a product worth paying for. Andrew is right in that regard. They only product I have produced for consumption in my time on this forum is deliberately bad music!
I'd like to see an author do something similar to what Louie C.K. did. He sold one of his performances for $5 on his website. He didn't involve other companies and had no-one else to pay other than the people he hired to film it etc. In the end he received an exorbitant amount of money, said he doesn't feel what he's doing was worth that much and gave a significant portion away, after also giving bonuses to the entire crew.
And honestly, no, I don't think that authors have some kind of right to be paid for their work.
I don't think that "deserving to be paid" and "having a right to be paid" are semantically equivalent.
Furthermore, I don't think that purchasing legitimate copies of a product make someone stupid. An informed consumer purchases legitimate copies of works from authors to support those authors and hopefully get them to make more.
I'm more than happy to pitch twenty bucks at Jim Butcher every year or so for a new Dresden Files novel if it means he keeps writing them.
Pre-paying to get something made in the first place (that otherwise wouldn't be made) or post-paying for non-replicable related merchandise are probably the only viable business models for media in the future.
Pre-paying to get something made in the first place (that otherwise wouldn't be made) or post-paying for non-replicable related merchandise are probably the only viable business models for media in the future.
Probably, but this is only because humans think in the short term. It makes sense, even in a game-theory way, for people to pay artists they appreciate in order to encourage future works from those artists.
It's not utopian. It kind of completely fucking sucks for artists, such as myself. But it is reality. Artists are not charity cases; if they fail to figure out a way to trick and fraud people into giving them money in exchange for endorphins, then the failure is all them.
I don't see how delivering art (in any form) that people appreciate is trickery and fraud. Artists can only deliver free stuff for the love of their work up to a certain point. But then there's that pesky thing called life and modern society where you have to have money to live. The artist will have to work a "normal" job just to survive and won't be able to deliver their art to their full potential. However if appreciators of said art PAY them, they are not stupid, they are saying "I love your work! Please make more!" Tricking and frauding people would be delivering something they didn't love or expect in return for money. I think you have your definitions messed up.
I'd like to see an author do something similar to what Louie C.K. did. He sold one of his performances for $5 on his website. He didn't involve other companies and had no-one else to pay other than the people he hired to film it etc. In the end he received an exorbitant amount of money, said he doesn't feel what he's doing was worth that much and gave a significant portion away, after also giving bonuses to the entire crew.
For what it's worth (nothing, because I'm not successful), this is very likely the sort of tack I'd take. I have a BIG problem accepting prices for my jewelry that gallery owners say I should charge, because I don't think it's worth that much (but it sells at those prices after I've sold it to the galleries for much lesss). I'd be the guy who would miraculously create a hit work that made a ton of cash, and end up feeling guilty about how much I'd been paid for it.
I sort of feel the same way. I cannot believe how much money people will pay for a few days worth of motion graphics. Getting paid for art always feels kind of terrible to me because it doesn't feel like work even when it causes me stress or has terrible deadlines, because I impose that shit on myself anyway when I don't have work.
Pre-paying to get something made in the first place (that otherwise wouldn't be made) or post-paying for non-replicable related merchandise are probably the only viable business models for media in the future.
Kickstarter as the new business model for novelists. I like that idea. I can think of a few piece of crap books I wouldn't have purchased if I had been able to read a few chapters before buying. (Back when bookstores got pissy about people reading them in the store)
Comments
Do you think that authors deserve to be paid for their work?
And honestly, no, I don't think that authors have some kind of right to be paid for their work. They have an opportunity to separate stupid people from their money, it's not the same thing. I'm banking on the fact I write good product and that people are very dumb.
Also, don't knock the merch. People will, for some reason, pay out the nose for stupid bullshit with your shit scrawled on it. I'm looking into the production of custom playing cards, dice and cheap-ass poker chips to go with Hardboiled.
Of course authors deserve to be paid for their works, but there are public options available so I can read them for free. Hell, discussing the works drums up business as people get interested and seek out their works.
Are you against loaning books to people because it denies authors money?
What about the people who worked very very hard on really shitty books. Do they deserve money? What about the people who pulled an amazing book out of their ass in five minutes without working hard at all. Do they deserve to be paid?
Capitalism does not pay people based on effort. Doing work, even hard grueling work for a long period of time, does not entitle you to being paid. To receive pay you must do work that other people are willing to pay for. You are not willing to pay $13 for the book. An act of piracy hurts noone. No harm, no foul.
Creative people are basically drug dealers. We're sort of an evil blight on society because we convince people they want the high of experiencing our product and we charge out the nose for it. That people have found a way around it is to be celebrated, and us pushers need to find a new way.
Rym - true, but there's got to be something. Kickstarter seems like a good start, in that patronage comes before the product, but it's not long term enough.
Oh for the sake of joining the argument. I think if a work is good enough, people will be willing to pay. No work is immune, no matter how awesome it is, but it will at least spread to the honest people willing to pay for stuff they love. :-P
Furthermore, I don't think that purchasing legitimate copies of a product make someone stupid. An informed consumer purchases legitimate copies of works from authors to support those authors and hopefully get them to make more.
I'm more than happy to pitch twenty bucks at Jim Butcher every year or so for a new Dresden Files novel if it means he keeps writing them.
Edit: Ninja'd by like three people.