Some of them are regulated in different ways, like you can use a gun before you are 21 unlike Alcohol.
In most states you can imbibe alcohol before 21 provided you don't get shitfaced and said alcohol is provided by your legal guardian. Similar restrictions exist for firearms in most places.
Commercial air travel is also very heavily regulated, but not necessarily with respect to the consumers. It's mostly with the training requirements for pilots as well as the safety and air traffic control requirements of the airlines.
The ironic thing about voting regulation is that some of the folks I know who are extremely pro unlimited second amendment without regulations or background checks are also fully in favor of requiring photo IDs to vote. Talk about hypocrisy.
Commercial air travel is also very heavily regulated, but not necessarily with respect to the consumers. It's mostly with the training requirements for pilots as well as the safety and air traffic control requirements of the airlines.
Yep. The requirements to become an airline professional - at least, aircraft crew - are much stricter than firearm licensing requirements, even here.
But then again, If a flight attendant fucks up when they should perform, they can trivially kill a hundred people. The two deadliest mass shooters in history killed 77 and 35, and the former is a vast statistical outlier.
The ironic thing about voting regulation is that some of the folks I know who are extremely pro unlimited second amendment without regulations or background checks are also fully in favor of requiring photo IDs to vote. Talk about hypocrisy.
Oh yeah, that's just fucking stupid. You should be required to have a photo ID license for owning a firearm, and be required to carry it with you whenever you are carrying a firearm.
Number of people who followed proper gun safety in those stories: 0
A gun is always loaded, especially when it isn't.
That's sadly part of the problem. There are too many idiots out there who are too stupid to use a gun responsibly buying and using guns.
I won't even get into the details of how the current gun culture is nothing at all like how the Founding Fathers intended, and I'm not talking about how they only thought about muskets and such. There are other issues at play.
There was just an article about the current state of the porn industry that heavily implied that, on average, gun enthusiasts are dumber and/or less connected than other people. They target gun owners, because those are the kinds of people who are more willing to buy DVDs and aren't aware of online options.
“The demographic is way different,” says Janet Gibson, COO of AVN Media Network, the company behind the convention. “It’s not the tech geeks anymore. It’s the gun people.” Yes, this year’s convention intentionally coincided with the four-day Shooting, Hunting, and Outdoor Trade Show at the Sands Expo and Convention Center, which experienced record attendance just months after the Newtown, Conn., school shootings. The demographic shift is one way to dial back the clock on the Internet takeover. Gun people are “the people who are still buying DVDs,” Gibson says. Sativa Verte, a 27-year-old performer known for her hair fetish work, put it another way: “These are the hillbilly, backcountry folk.
Sounds like how the most valuable mailing list used to be the one used to sell ear and nose hair trimmers.
This is why I'm always very interested in the "target" demographics of any particular piece of media. It gives you a lot of insight into what other people think other other people want or care about.
Yo, what's up with California? Those 8 dudes with guns are busy.
Well, California does have a pretty serious gang violence problem, and as the tired old canard goes, laws don't do anything to illegal guns and criminals.
However, just being illegal doesn't mean that they don't count in the firearm death statistics - those make no distinction on the basis of firearm legality.
Is there a chart that breaks the info down on a smaller scale than state level? As Churba noted, gang violence happens. If the majority of the gun violence is occurring in gang areas than using a state level breakdown is not going to tell us anything.
Is there a chart that breaks the info down on a smaller scale than state level? As Churba noted, gang violence happens. If the majority of the gun violence is occurring in gang areas than using a state level breakdown is not going to tell us anything.
Especially on a state level, using the broad category of "Firearm deaths", which includes suicide, crime, negligence/accidents, etc, etc.
Is there a chart that breaks the info down on a smaller scale than state level? As Churba noted, gang violence happens. If the majority of the gun violence is occurring in gang areas than using a state level breakdown is not going to tell us anything.
Especially on a state level, using the broad category of "Firearm deaths", which includes suicide, crime, negligence/accidents, etc, etc.
Negligence is actually what I'm most interested in. Violence is a big scary issue with lots of different facets and complicated causes. Negligence can be prevented simply with proper safety requirements for firearm registration.
Negligence is actually what I'm most interested in. Violence is a big scary issue with lots of different facets and complicated causes. Negligence can be prevented simply with proper safety requirements for firearm registration.
Well, as long as you include "saftey training" under that heading. A lot of people tend to think of safes and trigger locks, when you mention saftey requirements, but all the trigger locks and safes in the world won't prevent you contracting a case of Glock Leg or Glock Wall, because you didn't check the chamber before taking it down.
Negligence is actually what I'm most interested in. Violence is a big scary issue with lots of different facets and complicated causes. Negligence can be prevented simply with proper safety requirements for firearm registration.
Well, as long as you include "saftey training" under that heading. A lot of people tend to think of safes and trigger locks, when you mention saftey requirements, but all the trigger locks and safes in the world won't prevent you contracting a case of Glock Leg or Glock Wall, because you didn't check the chamber before taking it down.
That's what I meant, though I realize now not what I said. By "firearm registration" I meant registering people to get firearms, not registering firearms to get people.
That's what I meant, though I realize now not what I said. By "firearm registration" I meant registering people to get firearms, not registering firearms to get people.
Now I'm just imagining that bird of the RSPCA ads that ruin your whole day, holding a rifle, and talking about how you should give a lonely gun a good home.
Now I'm just imagining that bird of the RSPCA ads that ruin your whole day, holding a rifle, and talking about how you should give a lonely gun a good home.
Would they have the super sad In The Arms Of An Angel song playing while pictures of poorly maintained guns are panned across the screen?
And more seriously do you think greater accountability for not properly securing you weapon would be an effective measure? Also what base line training specifically do you have in mind?
And more seriously do you think greater accountability for not properly securing you weapon would be an effective measure? Also what base line training specifically do you have in mind?
I'll take a back seat to Churba on the training part as I he knows far more about guns than I do. However, I definitely do think failure to properly secure guns should require greater accountability. There should be accountability for gun lock/safe manufacturers as well, given how I just read an article in Forbes a month or so back about a gun safe with a lock that could be trivially bypassed by a three year old.
As far as training, a standard safety course along the lines of what the NRA does would probably suffice. Before they became the insane lobby, the NRA was pretty much just a gun safety and skills club.
I do think that most people should lock up their guns, but I don't know about many of the laws dealing with it. I sure know I don't want to have to have someone come inspect my house and make sure its legit like they have to do in Australia. In some states with gun safety laws, you simply have to own something to secure your guns and otherwise there's no real issue. You just get a huge fine if somehow you get caught without the guns being locked up. A lot of guns just come with trigger locks which would count towards those laws anyway, though I'm not a big fan of them. A lot of them seem pretty cheesy and I just forsee some guy accidentally shooting himself in the foot while trying to unlock his handgun because he kept it loaded for home defense. I still say lock up your guns though, for the most part. You might not be able to afford a $1000 gun safe but if you can afford the gun then I'm sure you can spend $7 on a handgun case at Walmart.
I'm a little dubious about holding lock manufacturers accountable, then again I don't like that I can sue McDonald's for burning myself with coffee I should know is hot, so take this with a grain of salt. If a lock doesn't preform as advertised by all means take legal action, but there are quality safes and even very secure quick access options available and a trigger lock is the last line of defense (in my opinion).
I think that the NRA training would be good for most gun owners, however I think there should be a teared training system depending on what you want to own and how you plan on using it (like open & conceal & carry vs. things like hunting, target shooting or home defense) and using a weapon without the proper training should come with consequences.
I'm a little dubious about holding lock manufacturers accountable, then again I don't like that I can sue McDonald's for burning myself with coffee I should know is hot, so take this with a grain of salt.
I have to take exception with this bullshit statement since you are referring to the "Hot Coffee" incident. They served the woman coffee at 190F, significantly hotter than needed, with prior documentation from McDonald's themselves that this was a danger. Did you know that coffee served that hot could cause these burns (NSFW maybe) in about 12 seconds?
It's true - that's a textbook case for a good reason. Maccas were legitimately at fault, even though she did spill the coffee on herself, the coffee should never have been that hot. She was burned so badly that her labia were fused to her leg, for fuck's sake.
And more seriously do you think greater accountability for not properly securing you weapon would be an effective measure? Also what base line training specifically do you have in mind?
Yes, but I'm unsure of how to implement such a program. Before that'll be possible, we need to review safe manufacture and pricing quite seriously - as Lou mentioned, there are indeed gun safes that can be opened by picking one corner up about four inches, and dropping it while turning they opener, because of the way the locking mechanism is designed and constructed, ie, piss-poorly. There's also a lot of trigger locks that you can open in two seconds or less, with a cheap ballpoint pen - it's a well known vulnerability, but one they don't bother to fix. A lot of cheaper gun-safes are incredibly insecure - even the big, freestanding ones. They use inferior materials, inferior design, and they're simply not up to scratch for securely storing a firearm.
I agree with Ninjarabbi - having a bloke come around your house and inspect your setup isn't exactly great, but I think that providing proof that you have an adequate storage solution - say, a current receipt for an approved safe - should be required. And yeah, it's going to take a bit of coin, but let's face it, if you're going for that Daniel's defence AR-15 with all the usual tactical barbie doll accessories including a little malibu beach house mounted on a picatinny rail, then fuck it, you can ditch one of your stupid tacticool accessories and pick up a safe instead.
As for training - Basic safety training and a tiered training system, I'd think. If you're just getting your regular licence, then you can train on firearm safetey, and rifle care basics - cleaning, malfunctions, just the basic stuff you SHOULD know as a gun owner. You want the handgun module, you get the same, but with handguns as well as rifles. You want a concealed carry licence? Good on you, but you're going to be trained on how to do it properly, when it's appropriate to draw, etc, etc, as well as the previous two tiers.
And I don't mean NYPD "hurr durr i am polis how to I shot gun?" training, I want you to actually KNOW how to use your carry gun(s) before you are allowed the choice of taking up that responsibility. And yeah, it's a responsibility - not because you're some gung-ho cowboy defender of the people from terrorists, psychos, and brown people but because you're carrying an object with the potential to harm or kill people on your person, and with the intention of using it if necessary to protect yourself, or someone else. Even if it's incredibly unlikely you're going to be actually using the gun you've got strapped around your waist, unlikely doesn't mean impossible, and if there is a chance of it, I'd sure as fuck hope you know how to use it, when to use it, and use it well.
Also - and this is a bit of a sticky one for some people - Mandatory re-testing. You're tested once per period of time - Just a simple aptitude and practical test, to demonstrate you still know the required stuff - and the training becomes more regularly tested, coming down to, say, annually for concealed carry permits.
Along with that, randomised, mandatory re-testing. Your name comes out of the hat, then you get tested, no matter how close or far from your last regular re-cert it was, no matter what tier of licence you have. Once you pass that randomised re-testing, you get 12 months of immunity from having your name pulled out of the random selection hat.
I mean, I'm just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks, here, but that's what I've got so far. If you've any improvements, I'd be happy to hear them.
Sorry I was wrong on that first example, but a simple "hey look at this info I have" would have sufficed. I know about burn danger the navy was EXPLICIT in their training. If you don't like that example how about the guy who sued McDonald's for making him fat?
And non of that is the point. the point is short of something like a company doing something blatantly dangerous like over heating something or using part that doesn't hold up to tampering as advertised I don't think you should hold them responsible. You should know an eight dollar trigger lock isn't going to hold up to the power drill you may also own or, according to some of the videos I'm seeing, a jewelers screwdriver.
I want you to actually KNOW how to use your carry gun(s) before you are allowed the choice of taking up that responsibility
I think the the addition of VERY specific legal parameters for what is self defense and the defense of others and what is not would be a good addition to the training.
Comments
The ironic thing about voting regulation is that some of the folks I know who are extremely pro unlimited second amendment without regulations or background checks are also fully in favor of requiring photo IDs to vote. Talk about hypocrisy.
But then again, If a flight attendant fucks up when they should perform, they can trivially kill a hundred people. The two deadliest mass shooters in history killed 77 and 35, and the former is a vast statistical outlier. Oh yeah, that's just fucking stupid. You should be required to have a photo ID license for owning a firearm, and be required to carry it with you whenever you are carrying a firearm.
A gun is always loaded, especially when it isn't.
I won't even get into the details of how the current gun culture is nothing at all like how the Founding Fathers intended, and I'm not talking about how they only thought about muskets and such. There are other issues at play.
Discuss.
However, just being illegal doesn't mean that they don't count in the firearm death statistics - those make no distinction on the basis of firearm legality.
And more seriously do you think greater accountability for not properly securing you weapon would be an effective measure? Also what base line training specifically do you have in mind?
As far as training, a standard safety course along the lines of what the NRA does would probably suffice. Before they became the insane lobby, the NRA was pretty much just a gun safety and skills club.
I think that the NRA training would be good for most gun owners, however I think there should be a teared training system depending on what you want to own and how you plan on using it (like open & conceal & carry vs. things like hunting, target shooting or home defense) and using a weapon without the proper training should come with consequences.
I agree with Ninjarabbi - having a bloke come around your house and inspect your setup isn't exactly great, but I think that providing proof that you have an adequate storage solution - say, a current receipt for an approved safe - should be required. And yeah, it's going to take a bit of coin, but let's face it, if you're going for that Daniel's defence AR-15 with all the usual tactical barbie doll accessories including a little malibu beach house mounted on a picatinny rail, then fuck it, you can ditch one of your stupid tacticool accessories and pick up a safe instead.
As for training - Basic safety training and a tiered training system, I'd think. If you're just getting your regular licence, then you can train on firearm safetey, and rifle care basics - cleaning, malfunctions, just the basic stuff you SHOULD know as a gun owner. You want the handgun module, you get the same, but with handguns as well as rifles. You want a concealed carry licence? Good on you, but you're going to be trained on how to do it properly, when it's appropriate to draw, etc, etc, as well as the previous two tiers.
And I don't mean NYPD "hurr durr i am polis how to I shot gun?" training, I want you to actually KNOW how to use your carry gun(s) before you are allowed the choice of taking up that responsibility. And yeah, it's a responsibility - not because you're some gung-ho cowboy defender of the people from terrorists, psychos, and brown people but because you're carrying an object with the potential to harm or kill people on your person, and with the intention of using it if necessary to protect yourself, or someone else. Even if it's incredibly unlikely you're going to be actually using the gun you've got strapped around your waist, unlikely doesn't mean impossible, and if there is a chance of it, I'd sure as fuck hope you know how to use it, when to use it, and use it well.
Also - and this is a bit of a sticky one for some people - Mandatory re-testing. You're tested once per period of time - Just a simple aptitude and practical test, to demonstrate you still know the required stuff - and the training becomes more regularly tested, coming down to, say, annually for concealed carry permits.
Along with that, randomised, mandatory re-testing. Your name comes out of the hat, then you get tested, no matter how close or far from your last regular re-cert it was, no matter what tier of licence you have. Once you pass that randomised re-testing, you get 12 months of immunity from having your name pulled out of the random selection hat.
I mean, I'm just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks, here, but that's what I've got so far. If you've any improvements, I'd be happy to hear them.
And non of that is the point. the point is short of something like a company doing something blatantly dangerous like over heating something or using part that doesn't hold up to tampering as advertised I don't think you should hold them responsible. You should know an eight dollar trigger lock isn't going to hold up to the power drill you may also own or, according to some of the videos I'm seeing, a jewelers screwdriver. I think the the addition of VERY specific legal parameters for what is self defense and the defense of others and what is not would be a good addition to the training.