GeekNights Thursday - Camping

MrPeriod

Tonight on the GeekNights Lounge, we discuss camping. Several people we know have never been properly camping. Fires, hobo meals, pooping in the woods: it's all here! We also ridicule the remaining self-described anarchists who pull crap like this every May Day.

• Calvin and Hobbes: The Gritty Reboot
• Realistic Gundam Damage Technique!
• Mastering Game Mechanics

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beefy

The banter between the 2 of you is the main reason I listen, not to mention I find it entertaining just how full of yourselves you can be sometimes. I almost always listen to the beginning of the podcast, don't always listen to the whole thing. For example, if you are talking about table top gaming, I skip that part. I'm just not into that, but the two of you going back and forth like a married couple just cracks me up

Rym

The listener did give us some feedback on this.

"Rym: You are correct. Do those shows. All of them.

Scott: Rym is correct. Do those shows and/or eat a bag of dicks."

Cremlian

Darn it all we need to do some camping soon,

Ikatono

As the one listener, you guys almost lost me while discussing how bad your podcast was, but I'm glad I kept listening for a while because I got to hear Scott say "Oh my glob."

Apreche

As the one listener, you guys almost lost me while discussing how bad your podcast was, but I'm glad I kept listening for a while because I got to hear Scott say "Oh my glob."

You'll get more chances to hear it. I've been saying it a lot lately.

MATATAT

My main issue with geeknights is almost entirely with video games. I don't really care about the anime shows because I don't really watch anime. Tech stuff is usually interesting. Games when relating to board games is good since I'm a pretty casual board gamer and don't follow it much. But holy shit you guys are usually way behind the curve on video games. This is probably a combination of "being jaded" and "not enough time" and also the fact that you cover many different geekeries. I assume this may apply to anime to some degree and perhaps board games. I don't know. Also not sure how you would remedy this problem other than ignore it or consider the possibility of trusted correspondents or something, or maybe more interviews.

Apreche

My main issue with geeknights is almost entirely with video games. I don't really care about the anime shows because I don't really watch anime. Tech stuff is usually interesting. Games when relating to board games is good since I'm a pretty casual board gamer and don't follow it much. But holy shit you guys are usually way behind the curve on video games. This is probably a combination of "being jaded" and "not enough time" and also the fact that you cover many different geekeries. I assume this may apply to anime to some degree and perhaps board games. I don't know. Also not sure how you would remedy this problem other than ignore it or consider the possibility of trusted correspondents or something, or maybe more interviews.

You are the one with the problem being so narrow in your geekeries. Granted, you are better than many people I have met. I'll never forget that guy whose only interest in the world was Silver Age Spider-Man comics, and no other geekery. Still, why don't you watch some anime, read some comics, go biking, etc.

Also, I think it's also a weird contradiction in that you want us to talk about the hot new video games. The fact that we don't talk about or play those games often is because we don't usually play or like those sorts of games. When we do play them, we buy them years later when they become very inexpensive. If you trusted our opinion, you would be doing the same thing. Clearly you disagree and are into the hot new video games. If we did play and discuss them, you would probably disagree furiously as we talked about how XYZ game was yet another shitty overpriced 3rd person action game with fancy graphics, big marketing, an no substance.

Vhdblood

The banter is totally why I listen, I can get the other shit elsewhere. Sometimes you guys get into really interesting discussions or explain stuff I don't know, but normally it's just the banter. :P

MATATAT

It's not that I am narrow in my geekeries its that my geekeries are not covered by you guys, or are not covered regularly. I follow current music pretty heavily but you guys don't cover that. I also do read comics, bike, etc. Either way that's not even the point I'm trying to make :P

Ideally I would suggest you guys just go full board game in discussion instead of trying to dabble in a category that you guys don't seem to have much expanded interest in. It seems stupid to me to selectively review only video games that you like. Especially when juxtaposed with your board game reviews where you play some good, some bad. Plus it doesn't matter if I or anyone else disagree, if you've ever been to any review website people always will disagree. Even on the forum there is always someone that disagrees any time a point is brought up. Also I'm arguing that you guys are "behind the curve" as in things like Papers, Please has been known about for a while and you guys are just finally getting around to talking about it, which seems to be a game you guys endorse.

Again, these are just critiques. Take them as you will.

Apreche

We have tons of interest in video games. I don't know how old you are, but I like to tell punk kids that my save games are older than they are. The thing is that as I got older, the rate of appearance of new video games has increased perhaps more than exponentially. So the percentage of games I play has gone way way down. It's just not possible to play all these games. I mean, look how many fucking Ludum Dare entries there are.

http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/

Also, due to playing so many games, jadedness is strong. So many video games are the same fucking thing over and over again, and I'm not even talking about sequels. Take for example something really popular like Mass Effect. It's a really big and fancy choose your own adventure story with a shitty 3rd person action game duct taped on. YAWN. I don't even need to play it to decide I'm not going to spend that many hours of my life on it.

In addition to jadedness, there is also a huge problem of tolerance. In my younger days when I had more free time and less video games existed, I could play and beat a game like Final Fantasy VI. Nowadays by the time I get to the snail boss I give up because the random encounters are such bullshit. I just don't have time for that nonsense. I can't even tolerate playing Chrono Trigger (the best ever) without some sort of combat-skip cheat.

This happens all the time. I got Dragon Age for very cheap on Steam some months back. I got my dwarf out of the dwarfy starting plot. Then I went on an adventure in the woods. I left the starting castle battle area and go to the next town. At that point shit reached a point where there was some serious inventory management. Fuck it, I gave up and uninstalled the game. I have no patience for that kind of bullshit anymore in my life.

I tried to play Shadow of the Colossus for the first time because Pkerr left his PS3 at Rym's apartment. It's one of the only PS games I had been wanting to play. At first it was kinda nice. Then I had to climb some walls and the shit controls started to piss me off. When I actually had to fight the first colossus, I gave up and have no desire to play that game ever again. I have no idea how so many people rate that game so highly when the controls are nearly unplayably bad.

When I do play a game it tends to go one of two ways. If it's single player I will burn through it as quickly as possible. I don't have time or patience for 100% completion nonsense anymore. I get to the ending as quickly as possible and never play the game again ever. (Bastion).

If the game is a serious competitive game, I will decide to invest in it or not. If I do invest in it, I play it A LOT. NS2, Netrunner, Counter-Strike. A handful of games take up almost all of my game playing time. I attack only a few. Is your new FPS better than NS2? No? Then I'm not even going to bother looking at it.

So yes, I am still way into video games. I just can't do that many shows on them because my game playing habits result in me not having enough to discuss about any given game to actually make a podcast episode about it.

Apreche

I guess I could do a show about all the video games I'm not playing, and why. The number one reason these days is the game is some F2P nonsense with pay2win microtransactions. Looking at you Leviathan Warships! Glad I did not buy you, you piece of shit with a really good trailer.

Apreche

Actually I can just basically do a Tuesday that is that forum post I just made.

MATATAT

You just reiterated my argument (with more detail) as to why you should just stick to reviewing board games.

Rym

I'm playing the shit out of X-Com and Candy Box right now. ;^)

More importantly, we're review and commentary. We aren't and have never been a news show. We bring up things we haven't talked about yet in GeekNights, but we are not the ones who should be breaking news to you if you're deep into something.

For example: Papers Please.

Yes, hip gamers knew about it. But, the majority of our listeners did not.

Project Leviathan: I'm playing to do a short review, but we won't further talk about it after that due to its bullshit microtransactions that are a dealbreaker.

We can do a show on games we're not playing. I can speak volumes about why I don't bother with a lot of games. ;^)

Apreche

I played X-Com, died. Then played again. I did so well the second time, but never actually beat the game. I just got to a point late in the game and stopped. I have had absolutely no urge to start the game up again since I last played it weeks ago.

Coldguy

Speaking of Camping anyone interested in going to MAGStock 3 this year?

Amp

I would say part of the problem is that you guys come across as really arrogant when talking about games. If its not NS, counter strike or whatever game you played growing up then it is shit and not worth the effort to play. If it doesn't adhere to your strict set of rules that are specific to you then it doesn't matter gets old rather quick.

That and stop talking about how amazing New York is. We get it, its a nice place to live and suits your life style but do you really need to talk about it all the time :^.

The anime stuff is pretty good though.

Apreche

Speaking of Camping anyone interested in going to MAGStock 3 this year?

I've wanted to go to MAGStock since it was first announced, but it hasn't worked out.

Rym

My "strict" rules are pretty simple.

1. No grind
2. No game affecting microtransactions
3. Some skill component

Apreche

I would say part of the problem is that you guys come across as really arrogant when talking about games. If its not NS, counter strike or whatever game you played growing up then it is shit and not worth the effort to play. If it doesn't adhere to your strict set of rules that are specific to you then it doesn't matter gets old rather quick.

You want me to lie? Most video games these days are the same old cookie cutter genres over and over again. Huge swaths of modern games have the same major flaws that make them categorically unplayable (pay2win). It's rare to find a video game that is truly original or worth the large time and money investment that is required.

That and stop talking about how amazing New York is. We get it, its a nice place to live and suits your life style but do you really need to talk about it all the time :^.

U JELLY?

The anime stuff is pretty good though.

I watch anime less than I play video games.

Also, add Dance Dance Revolution on to the list next to CS and NS.

And my rules are the same as Rym's with one addition:

4. No cookie-cutter genre games. I don't have to play "walk around and hit things."

Amp

I would say part of the problem is that you guys come across as really arrogant when talking about games. If its not NS, counter strike or whatever game you played growing up then it is shit and not worth the effort to play. If it doesn't adhere to your strict set of rules that are specific to you then it doesn't matter gets old rather quick.

You want me to lie? Most video games these days are the same old cookie cutter genres over and over again. Huge swaths of modern games have the same major flaws that make them categorically unplayable (pay2win). It's rare to find a video game that is truly original or worth the large time and money investment that is required.

That and stop talking about how amazing New York is. We get it, its a nice place to live and suits your life style but do you really need to talk about it all the time :^.

U JELLY?

The anime stuff is pretty good though.

I watch anime less than I play video games.

Also, add Dance Dance Revolution on to the list next to CS and NS.

See thats the problem. Yes we get it those games are cookie cutter and most of your audiance either knows that or plays the game for dumb fun. We don't need to be told over and over again, it gets old really quickly. Most of the stuff you are saying I agree with but the continual harping makes it difficult to actually listen to what you have to say, which can be quite interesting.

Of New York, a bit in terms of I have never been there. Then again I live in the Costworlds so you would have to try pretty hard to beat that one :P

That was a short list Im sure its longer.

Edit; Then watch more anime you guys are actually really interesting to listen to when you talk about anime. The video game stuff smacks of psudointerlectualism (fuck that spelling) that just comes across as arrogant and dull, which is a shame because im sure there is interesting stuff its just a slog at times.

Double edit;

My "strict" rules are pretty simple.

1. No grind
2. No game affecting microtransactions
3. Some skill component

It doesn't come across that way. Mensa seem to have a looser set of rules and standards. Also what you call skill is very specific to you, your list also misses out story something that can make a game a lot better regardless of mechanics.

MATATAT

That's why I was suggesting correspondents or interviews, you can cover more ground on games you either don't have time to sit through or don't have interest in that your listeners would have interest in. I mean you have to be aware that many of your listeners and the forum goers do not share your jaded view on video games. And yes I realize there are many other outlets for people to get this information on a deeper level but as far as the podcast I'm just giving suggestions on ways to perhaps improve it.

Apreche

We wouldn't have to say the same thing over and over again if people would make more games that were good. Thanks Monaco! The list of criteria doesn't need to be longer. Sadly, such a short list disqualifies almost every game I see these days.

Really, the New York thing is just something that can't be avoided. When you live in one of the biggest cities in the world, there are a lot of things that happen there. In a remote place, however awesome and beautiful, nothing much happens. In NY there are just so many things happening all the time that have a profound effect on the lives of not just the residents, but the world. If you have a talk show and you live in such a city, it's very hard to ignore that huge source of discussion material.

What anime should I watch next?

Apreche

That's why I was suggesting correspondents or interviews, you can cover more ground on games you either don't have time to sit through or don't have interest in that your listeners would have interest in. I mean you have to be aware that many of your listeners and the forum goers do not share your jaded view on video games. And yes I realize there are many other outlets for people to get this information on a deeper level but as far as the podcast I'm just giving suggestions on ways to perhaps improve it.

If I interview someone who made a shit game, I'm very likely to tell them exactly what I think of their shit game. That won't go so well. If we have a correspondent who we don't agree with, we will debate them too.

Imagine, for example, we had the developer of Leviathan: Warships or a correspondent who was giving it a positive review. The discussion with the developer would be "Why did you ruin a great game and an even better trailer with pay2win microtransaction bullshit?" The discussion with a correspondent who liked it would be "How dumb are you that you fell for and/or enjoy this pay2win microtransaction bullshit?"

As long as it's our show, you're getting what we honestly think.

MATATAT

Also what you call skill is very specific to you, your list also misses out story something that can make a game a lot better regardless of mechanics.

Yeah I was also going to mention that what is merited as skill to Scrym is a truncated list of what would actually qualify as skill.

Amp

Then talk to those people! Your preaching to the choir.

I get that but its all the time. Also stuff happens in the sticks you just have to look for it :P

Man that is a tough question. Are you keeping up with Jojos? Maybe check out Claymore if you haven't already its pretty good.

MATATAT

That's why I was suggesting correspondents or interviews, you can cover more ground on games you either don't have time to sit through or don't have interest in that your listeners would have interest in. I mean you have to be aware that many of your listeners and the forum goers do not share your jaded view on video games. And yes I realize there are many other outlets for people to get this information on a deeper level but as far as the podcast I'm just giving suggestions on ways to perhaps improve it.

If I interview someone who made a shit game, I'm very likely to tell them exactly what I think of their shit game. That won't go so well. If we have a correspondent who we don't agree with, we will debate them too.

Imagine, for example, we had the developer of Leviathan: Warships or a correspondent who was giving it a positive review. The discussion with the developer would be "Why did you ruin a great game and an even better trailer with pay2win microtransaction bullshit?" The discussion with a correspondent who liked it would be "How dumb are you that you fell for and/or enjoy this pay2win microtransaction bullshit?"

As long as it's our show, you're getting what we honestly think.

That might be interesting to listen to.

Amp

That's why I was suggesting correspondents or interviews, you can cover more ground on games you either don't have time to sit through or don't have interest in that your listeners would have interest in. I mean you have to be aware that many of your listeners and the forum goers do not share your jaded view on video games. And yes I realize there are many other outlets for people to get this information on a deeper level but as far as the podcast I'm just giving suggestions on ways to perhaps improve it.

If I interview someone who made a shit game, I'm very likely to tell them exactly what I think of their shit game. That won't go so well. If we have a correspondent who we don't agree with, we will debate them too.

Imagine, for example, we had the developer of Leviathan: Warships or a correspondent who was giving it a positive review. The discussion with the developer would be "Why did you ruin a great game and an even better trailer with pay2win microtransaction bullshit?" The discussion with a correspondent who liked it would be "How dumb are you that you fell for and/or enjoy this pay2win microtransaction bullshit?"

As long as it's our show, you're getting what we honestly think.

That might be interesting to listen to.

2nd!

johndis

Honestly theres a million different blogs podcasts etceteras that shout their dumb ass opinions about all the new dumbass games, partly because of an actual interest and also partly capitalizing on trends. I like things like "Games Only Scott Likes" where you might hear about why some old game you've never played is actually fairly cool as hell + fun. Tho that's probably b/c I'm at a point where I don't see a need to pay full price for games when the backlog of sick games I haven't played or maybe even heard of is insanely large and reasonably priced. The idea of paying money, and more importantly, using free time to play incrementally upgraded sequels seems inane compared to jamming on some really unique older (as in 'not new', I dont mean retro or w/e) games that slipped under the radar.

Apreche

Also what you call skill is very specific to you, your list also misses out story something that can make a game a lot better regardless of mechanics.

Yeah I was also going to mention that what is merited as skill to Scrym is a truncated list of what would actually qualify as skill.

If a game has a great story with a shit game attached, the whole package is shit. They should have just removed the game part and made a movie or straight up choose your own adventure. See the example I use all the time of a great movie with breaks that require to press buttons and solve puzzles to see the next scene.

If you want to have a story with a game in the same package, do it right. Games that do it right:

Dwarf Fortress
Papers, Please
Half-Life 2
Portal

The best games are usually the ones where the story is extremely thin, Nintendo-style. Think about Mario, Zelda, Metroid. Lots of games have really heavy stories where those heavy stories are very very good, usually RPGs like Chrono Trigger or Earthbound. However, in order to see those stories you have to spend tens of hours of your life playing a horrendously bad game. No matter how good the story is, fuck that shit.

I should start a community that hacks these games to remove the game. We should start with an FFVI hack where there is no combat or inventory. You just walk around and talk to everyone. I guess you would still have to dance at the ball, though.