Another game that puts you into a forced narrative, removing your ability to make any meaningful decisions? How about "most of them?"
Anyway, the discussion about this game has been had. I watched clips of it online. My opinion was literally unchanged. As a game, whatever - as a method of conveying a "deeper" message, it falls flat because of a single design decision.
Right see I thought you had played it. I don't want to be rude but thats like saying you've seen a film when you've read the wiki.
I did exactly what I said I would do in the previous thread: I watched it for the narrative emergence. And while you might say that a different could be created by controlling the actions up to the forced decision (which may hold some water), the point still remains that the single forced decision, coupled with the developer's "you had the option to stop playing" attitude, absolutely ruins the entire idea of the game.
And at this point, I'm way too biased against the game to give it a fair playthrough. All I'd do now is play to figure out all the different decisions I can make - like getting all the endings in Chrono Trigger. It won't move me - it'll just tickle my obsessive completionist spot.
I think y'all are totally silly. Your criteria means you spend as much time sorting what you'll experience as you spend experiencing it and you'll use feeling superior to justify going back to the familiar skinner's boxes instead of trying new ones. Not that there is anything wrong with familiarity; I've played so much Alpha Centauri, and I think it's a very good game, but I'll never say I'm jaded by it, and if I have the opportunity to try a new 4x game I've never thought "Why bother, I'm an Alpha Centauri man!" Of course, after playing it I'll probably end up going back, but I don't think I've ever regretted trying a new thing.
There is so much to experience! It is never a bad thing to experience something novel. The experience itself may be bad, but everything gives you more perspective. I've lost track of the number of times I've used an element from something which wasn't very good as a starting point for something I am working on, or used it as a comparison with something else. Having a different perspective on something you enjoy can often make you enjoy it even more.
And, who knows, you might even find yourself enjoying new things.
EDIT: Then again, I'm the kind of person who gets a lot of enjoyment out of things that are awful because they are awful. There is something sublime about truly shitty games, movies and television.
What happens if a new and better roller coaster comes a long and you realise that the prior ones were only good due to nostalgia?
Yeah, I see where you are getting at, but it's just not the case with me. I am the anti-nostalgia. I am the first first person to point at people who are liking something only because of notalgia when it sucks. I have tried to watch He-Man, and it is awful. I basically have no nostalgia at this point. If I had nostalgia, I would fucking love FFVI. But now, my feeling has changed. If nostalgia was my factor, why do I not play CS 1.6, but prefer CS:GO? Why do I play NS2 and not NS1? Why do I prefer hot new board games rather than Settlers or Monopoly? I don't think I have any nostalgia bones left in my body.
You bring up this god damn rollercoaster time and time again and I think it's pretty good analogy. You have ridden the tallest rollercoaster so you don't even care that you haven't ridden the one with most loops, or best scenery or cool tricks. It's all about the tallness.
I like where you are going with this analogy. It is a good one and it is correct. Things can be the best at different aspects. That is why I do not play one and only one game ever. I still play many games, just not that many. There are only so many aspects.
This is the easiest to see with board games. Puerto Rico and Tigris & Euphrates are both the greats in different aspects. Even if I decided one was better than the other, I still love to play both.
Meanwhile Cards Against Humanity completely removes Apples to Apples from consideration, unless you need to play with children. Now that I have played CAH, Apples to Apples doesn't do it for me anymore.
Perhaps an alcoholic analogy works as well. If you've got a really good beer, you have no need for budweiser. But even with the fanciest beer can't substitute for vodak. Beer is fast. Vodak has loops.
I think y'all are totally silly. Your criteria means you spend as much time sorting what you'll experience as you spend experiencing it and you'll use feeling superior to justify going back to the familiar skinner's boxes instead of trying new ones. Not that there is anything wrong with familiarity; I've played so much Alpha Centauri, and I think it's a very good game, but I'll never say I'm jaded by it, and if I have the opportunity to try a new 4x game I've never thought "Why bother, I'm an Alpha Centauri man!" Of course, after playing it I'll probably end up going back, but I don't think I've ever regretted trying a new thing.
There is so much to experience! It is never a bad thing to experience something novel. The experience itself may be bad, but everything gives you more perspective. I've lost track of the number of times I've used an element from something which wasn't very good as a starting point for something I am working on, or used it as a comparison with something else. Having a different perspective on something you enjoy can often make you enjoy it even more.
And, who knows, you might even find yourself enjoying new things.
EDIT: Then again, I'm the kind of person who gets a lot of enjoyment out of things that are awful because they are awful. There is something sublime about truly shitty games, movies and television.
What you are saying is true, it just misses one thing.
Yes, experience lots of different and varied and new things is the best. If you haven't experienced something, definitely go for it even if it is bad.
But when your experience level gets very high, something different happens. You look at something that is technically completely new, but you see something old. I look at Halo, but all I see is Goldeneye. I HAVE been there before, because I have been almost everywhere.
I may not have played Spec Ops: The Line, but I have played that single player war porn FPS many times. My experience tells me that that game is very likely the same as that game I have already played, even though it is crooked slightly so. My guesses of this nature have almost never been wrong. Do I have to play every warn porn FPS to know one when I see one? Do I have to play every single new one to know what it is like?
And that's really all that needs to be said about it. Everyone here is arguing about something that is personal. Enjoyment is all about your personal likes/dislikes. How can everyone be arguing about the value in a game when that value is personal? Scott like what Scott likes. Sheesh.
I'm not saying it definitely is what I guess it to be. I can't know that unless I actually play it.
Not that it's really stopped you in the past.
I'm just saying I see almost no evidence to suggest that my guess is wrong.
And John Dvorak can see no evidence to suggest he's wrong about Google Glass being a big hoax, either.
Just don't forget, guys, Scott is better than you. Plebeians and philistines like us simply cannot comprehend.
Oh wait, this whole thing is just pretentious twaddle, Spec-ops gets points for trying to do something a little bit new and interesting, then loses them for failing at it, Scott progresses ever further towards vanishing up his own arse, everyone else seems to forget that the three defining features of Scott's taste and gets rowdy about it as if he's never had an opinion that we didn't agree with.
Nothing out of the ordinary, carry on as you were.
And that's really all that needs to be said about it. Everyone here is arguing about something that is personal. Enjoyment is all about your personal likes/dislikes. How can everyone be arguing about the value in a game when that value is personal? Scott like what Scott likes. Sheesh.
You are attempting to insert logic in a argument about feelings :-p
That's like trying to pee on a forest fire to extinguish it. Besdies, we need a pig-headed argument every now again - to cull the ego underbrush, and allow new things to grow.
We could also go with a pubic hair metaphor, but I'd much rather just mention it and let your brain make weird connections.
I will admit to not having played Spec Ops, but the one thing I do know about it is it got the elusive "Even Yahtzee Likes It" seal of approval. Though, it sounds like even he admits that the gameplay isn't as strong as the story, so eh, again it depends on your priorities I guess.
Also, I feel video games can deliver a story very well and very poignantly, but the problem I've noticed is that the best uses of story I've seen in games to date tend to be in shorter games, either short mainstream games like Portal, or little Flash concept games like One Chance, But That Was [Yesterday], and Every Day the Same Dream. Longer games just don't seem to have smooth story integration down yet, agreed. I believe it can happen, but it probably hasn't happened yet. Closest might be something like Shadow of the Colossus? And even that feels kind of bloated for what it is sometimes.
I like the banter just fine; this is one of the few podcasts I can stand to listen to regularly when I'm doing repetitive tasks at work and it's because you guys seem like people I'd actually hang out with in real life. That said, I wouldn't want a podcast without any content. I particularly like the comics/anime podcasts, because I usually get a good recommendation or a new perspective on something I'm already reading/watching.
As far as the discussion in this thread, I walked away from videogames several years ago. It's very rare to encounter new mechanics that are complicated enough to be fun to solve. It's also been a long time since I played a game that deeply moved me. I've tried recent several games, and I always feel the urge to put them down and go do other stuff unless I'm playing in a social setting. It's just not my bag right now. However, when I look at TV/movies/anime, I do see things that are subtly new and different happening in many different genres. Lots of things that are being released now wouldn't have been created 10 or 20 years ago. Cultural circumstances change more than I think we generally appreciate. Just watching the top IMDB movies and blowing off new stuff that may be not as technically perfect is a recipe for stagnation. I actually have a hard time watching older stuff, unless it's the very best of the best.
Sooo camping. Other than sleeping on the ground which kills my back. Which could be solved by bringing a cot. But I always forget to buy one. I totally love being outdoors. Camp fires are the awesome. Exploring the woods also great. Listening to music on the old boombox and having a few beers, eating burgers and hot dogs, going for a cruise on a boat on the lake. Hell yes.
I enjoy all game content from Geeknights, and don't mind the pseudo-intellectual bullshit that comes with it. I'd much prefer late coverage of games worth playing to breaking news about games I'll never bother playing. As for other content, I only skip book club episodes of books I've not read but might want to catch up on one day, and pretty much all anime chat. I was just about to write "It feels like they are talking in a different language" but then, on further consideration, they often DO talk in a different language.
Air mattress is the only concession I allow for bedding. I will poke and make fun of people unless they have a legitimate medical problem that would require it.
My family took yearly camping trips to Yosemite National Park from when I was about 8 until I was about 15. I got so much reading done, it was insane. Since I enjoyed staying in camp mostly, I was de facto put in charge of most camp maintenance chores and cooking.
Comments
And at this point, I'm way too biased against the game to give it a fair playthrough. All I'd do now is play to figure out all the different decisions I can make - like getting all the endings in Chrono Trigger. It won't move me - it'll just tickle my obsessive completionist spot.
There is so much to experience! It is never a bad thing to experience something novel. The experience itself may be bad, but everything gives you more perspective. I've lost track of the number of times I've used an element from something which wasn't very good as a starting point for something I am working on, or used it as a comparison with something else. Having a different perspective on something you enjoy can often make you enjoy it even more.
And, who knows, you might even find yourself enjoying new things.
EDIT: Then again, I'm the kind of person who gets a lot of enjoyment out of things that are awful because they are awful. There is something sublime about truly shitty games, movies and television.
This is the easiest to see with board games. Puerto Rico and Tigris & Euphrates are both the greats in different aspects. Even if I decided one was better than the other, I still love to play both.
Meanwhile Cards Against Humanity completely removes Apples to Apples from consideration, unless you need to play with children. Now that I have played CAH, Apples to Apples doesn't do it for me anymore.
Perhaps an alcoholic analogy works as well. If you've got a really good beer, you have no need for budweiser. But even with the fanciest beer can't substitute for vodak. Beer is fast. Vodak has loops.
Yes, experience lots of different and varied and new things is the best. If you haven't experienced something, definitely go for it even if it is bad.
But when your experience level gets very high, something different happens. You look at something that is technically completely new, but you see something old. I look at Halo, but all I see is Goldeneye. I HAVE been there before, because I have been almost everywhere.
I may not have played Spec Ops: The Line, but I have played that single player war porn FPS many times. My experience tells me that that game is very likely the same as that game I have already played, even though it is crooked slightly so. My guesses of this nature have almost never been wrong. Do I have to play every warn porn FPS to know one when I see one? Do I have to play every single new one to know what it is like?
I say no.
Just don't forget, guys, Scott is better than you. Plebeians and philistines like us simply cannot comprehend.
Oh wait, this whole thing is just pretentious twaddle, Spec-ops gets points for trying to do something a little bit new and interesting, then loses them for failing at it, Scott progresses ever further towards vanishing up his own arse, everyone else seems to forget that the three defining features of Scott's taste and gets rowdy about it as if he's never had an opinion that we didn't agree with.
Nothing out of the ordinary, carry on as you were.
We could also go with a pubic hair metaphor, but I'd much rather just mention it and let your brain make weird connections.
Also, I feel video games can deliver a story very well and very poignantly, but the problem I've noticed is that the best uses of story I've seen in games to date tend to be in shorter games, either short mainstream games like Portal, or little Flash concept games like One Chance, But That Was [Yesterday], and Every Day the Same Dream. Longer games just don't seem to have smooth story integration down yet, agreed. I believe it can happen, but it probably hasn't happened yet. Closest might be something like Shadow of the Colossus? And even that feels kind of bloated for what it is sometimes.
As far as the discussion in this thread, I walked away from videogames several years ago. It's very rare to encounter new mechanics that are complicated enough to be fun to solve. It's also been a long time since I played a game that deeply moved me. I've tried recent several games, and I always feel the urge to put them down and go do other stuff unless I'm playing in a social setting. It's just not my bag right now. However, when I look at TV/movies/anime, I do see things that are subtly new and different happening in many different genres. Lots of things that are being released now wouldn't have been created 10 or 20 years ago. Cultural circumstances change more than I think we generally appreciate. Just watching the top IMDB movies and blowing off new stuff that may be not as technically perfect is a recipe for stagnation. I actually have a hard time watching older stuff, unless it's the very best of the best.
My family took yearly camping trips to Yosemite National Park from when I was about 8 until I was about 15. I got so much reading done, it was insane. Since I enjoyed staying in camp mostly, I was de facto put in charge of most camp maintenance chores and cooking.
Hot damn, were those good times.
I laughed out loud at Scott's "Urr murr gurd!" Impression of the bike lady. More impressions like this in the future please!