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GeekNights Thursday - GeekNights in Australia part 1

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  • To be fair, you're starting to see credit card surcharges here in the US too. I see it quite a bit at gas stations where they advertise two separate prices: one for cash and one for credit (usually about $0.05-$0.10 more per gallon for credit).
    I haven't seen that since the 90s except in really backwater towns, and I've never seen it since I moved to New York State.

    It's mostly small, suburban, and vaguely creepy gas stations. It's rarely a "brand name" gas station (Shell, Mobile, etc.), it's stuff like "Jim's Gas Station and Bait Shop" type stuff.
  • To be fair, you're starting to see credit card surcharges here in the US too. I see it quite a bit at gas stations where they advertise two separate prices: one for cash and one for credit (usually about $0.05-$0.10 more per gallon for credit).
    I haven't seen that since the 90s except in really backwater towns, and I've never seen it since I moved to New York State.

    The Mobil right in the center of my town does it. There are also a few gas stations up and down Rt. 1 (Norwood and Walpole, which while not major cities aren't exactly backwaters either) in Massachusetts who also do it.

    I wonder if New York State has a law restricting that behavior that Massachusetts lacks?
  • To be fair, you're starting to see credit card surcharges here in the US too. I see it quite a bit at gas stations where they advertise two separate prices: one for cash and one for credit (usually about $0.05-$0.10 more per gallon for credit).
    I haven't seen that since the 90s except in really backwater towns, and I've never seen it since I moved to New York State.
    This is getting a LOT more common in the past few years. All off-brand stations do it, about half of the bigger brands too. You definitely won't see it at places like a Quik Check or Wawa that make their money on the giant convenience stores attached, though.

  • If number 3 is true, either you'd better tell a damn good story, or you're flat out wrong. That's absolutely illegal, and would result in a loss of liquor license - basically, a death-blow to any club that tried it. I'm calling bullshit, unless you either have a strong example, OR you are just going to say "well, they technically CAN get away with it if they're not caught", which I don't think you'll try on, because then the same could be said of literally anywhere in the US, England, etc, etc.

    I'd ask you to try and argue that the drinking age is low, but I know you could at length, so I won't bother. Suffice it to say, that's a matter of perspective - most countries view the US as having a high minimum drinking age.

    Eight, Gotta know where to look. It's trivial to find good beer, if you head over to a liquor store, or a supermarket/liquor store with a decent range. It's harder for bars, but if you'd have asked for it, I'd have simply directed you somewhere, like Beer Deluxe in Fed Square, or a few others I was told about beforehand.

    Number nine, sounds odd, but I'll tentatively believe it. I don't use credit very often at all, and debit is always free here, so I'm not sure how common that is. I'll check.

    Also, Eleven - I knew who one guy was, Banjo Patterson. And I knew his poem that was printed in the microprint. I knew another guy that USED to be on the five, and his federation of Australia speech was the microprint, and I know that the building that replaced him is Parliment house, it was Henry Parkes, the "Father of Federation."

    Fully agree with one, two, five and six, though.
  • Of course, if there was a better transfer system where I can just say, "Transfer $X to So-and-So," without paying any fees I'd use it in a heartbeat. Sadly, checks are pretty much the only fee-free way (for the payer and payee, minus the usually trivial cost of the checks themselves) to transfer money without using cash.
    I should clarify a few things - I don't pay fees for transfers under a certain amount(and it's a large amount, I think it's 5 or ten thousand before it's an issue), and when it's a transfer to anyone else with the same bank or between my own accounts, it's instant. Bank transfers to other banks are also free(which can vary from bank to bank, but I'm pretty sure most of them will do it for free), but can take up to 24 hours - the general common-knowlege rule is, if you lodge the transfer before 4PM of any given day, it'll go through at midnight. After that, sometimes in the morning, sometimes midnight the next day.
    As far as physical paychecks, if you work for a decently sized company, you usually get direct deposits to your bank account.
    Aside from either the government, or a few business expenses, I don't think I could tell you the last time I even saw a cheque being used - and even including the former two, it's been at least twelve to eighteen months. I've certainly never used one for any personal expenses, and very few businesses bother with them either.
    Are you talking about denying those rights to people within the US's borders?
    Nope. But I don't recall rights being geographically based, either, and I'm not going to really trust any government to take the rights of it's citizens seriously, unless they're essentially treating all people as equal in that regard - basically, a non-citizen of the US should be regarded as having the same inalienable rights as a US citizen. The government would not have the obligation to nessassarily defend those rights as they would the rights of their own citizens - after all, you're not world police, as we know - but this should absolutely be the case regarding the US government's treatment of non-citizens, within their borders or no.

    Remember, the declaration of independence does not read "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights(unless you're not American)."

    Which may or may not be relevant, but fuck it's a good line aye.
  • edited August 2013
    Are you talking about denying those rights to people within the US's borders?
    Nope. But I don't recall rights being geographically based, either, and I'm not going to really trust any government to take the rights of it's citizens seriously, unless they're essentially treating all people as equal in that regard - basically, a non-citizen of the US should be regarded as having the same inalienable rights as a US citizen. The government would not have the obligation to nessassarily defend those rights as they would the rights of their own citizens - after all, you're not world police, as we know - but this should absolutely be the case regarding the US government's treatment of non-citizens, within their borders or no.

    Remember, the declaration of independence does not read "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights(unless you're not American)."

    Which may or may not be relevant, but fuck it's a good line aye.
    Last first, cause it's easiest, yes, it's a good line. :)

    I do see what you mean about the whole unalienable rights thing outside of the US's borders. Those rights, though, are listed as the rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" without going into detail as to what constitutes "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Part of the purpose of the Bill of Rights on the Constitution was to try to enumerate at least some of these (the Framers were concerned, and probably rightly so, that without at least an attempt at enumeration, these rights would be stomped on pretty quickly) with the Ninth Amendment being the "this is just in case we forgot something" clause.

    In the case of a specific example of stomping on the rights of non-citizens outside of its borders, I'm assuming you're referring to spying as violating the Fourth Amendment? Otherwise/in addition to this, could you perhaps be talking about various drone strikes (it certainly violates the right to "life" part, at least). Again, forgive my ignorance if I'm missing something here. I'm a bit wishy-washy on the drone part, at least. A drone strike in a recognized war zone against someone working for a recognized enemy is okay, I think. For example, a drone strike against a Taliban commander in Afghanistan is legitimate (assuming the laws of war were followed in conducting the strike, of course). However, drone strikes against random terrorists outside of recognized war zones are very, very troubling and should be stopped.

    The only other issue I can come up with is torture, and that's already a violation of US military law (torture is banned in the Army Field Service Manual, for instance), as well as probably a violation of the laws of war. Needless to say, I'm 100% against torture as well.
    Post edited by Dragonmaster Lou on
  • edited August 2013

    1. Trams are nice, but waaaaay less useful than real subway and useless at night
    This is true I found tram usage to be a novelty when living in Melbourne till I moved to an apartment where there was a tram stop right behind my building. Nothing beats a subway, I really enjoyed commuting using the Singaporean subway system when I worked there for a month.
    3. Clubs can get away with having racial barriers to entry outside
    Hmm I've lived in Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Karratha (remote mining town North Western Australia) and the Gold Coast (it's in Queensland). I have never encountered this. I'm also a brown dude in a society which does have some racism but nowhere near what is depicted in the US.
    4. Minimum wage + low drinking age = (anecdotally) stupid kids getting rip roaring drunk in hotel parties (we have a story here).
    Agreed I've been to floor parties I didn't get super drunk as I was taught how to drink in moderation. But there would often also be weed floating around.
    5. Speed limits are ludicrously low on the freeways
    Completely agreed, when I moved to Melbourne and Sydney I was like "WTF how is this road a freeway / highway". I remember when I was a kid most freeways were 110 km/h and anything rural was unlimited.
    8. Good beer was hard to find.
    I have to agree with this, most bars will stock what you are looking for but you need to ask for it as the vast majority of people can't tell the difference. However there are some bars which serve only premium beers. Like my favourite beer spot in Perth is the Belgian Beer Cafe where you have an amazing set of excellent beers with no one actually buying the one brand of mediocre beer on the menu. While my go to beer is usually Little Creatures Pale Ale and I've only seen it on tap in a few pubs, it is more usually bottled and kept somewhere else but there will be a sticker somewhere near the bar to indicate that they serve it.
    9. Surcharges for using credit cards
    The only surcharges I see with my Visa are a few online computer part vendors.
    However I do remember racking up quite a bit in surcharges when I travel overseas and
    use any credit card.

    However I agree that there is more aversion to using credit cards in Australia than most Asian countries.

    In regards to cheques, I've had to deal with maybe 2 cheques in my entire life. I am employed by small businesses and always get paid direct debit because the cost is not transferred to the public.
    7. There is no good orange juice.
    I agree with the orange juice point most of the mass market stuff is crap I personally know that if I want quality orange juice I buy oranges which is why I have a juicer. I was also brought up by parents who would only serve me freshly juiced stuff so I'm spoiled in that matter.

    However fruit changes taste regionally. Fruits and Vegetables are relatively bland but larger in Australia compared to when I visit India. To get good fruit I tend to go to a farmer's market. Yet in the UK all fruit tasted like trash to me and the vegetables had barely any flavour.
    Post edited by sK0pe on
  • 1. I would kill to have trams in my city in the UK. 3rd biggest city and yet all we get is buses, which are ok but way expansive as there is only really one bus company.

    2. I have to admit, there did seem to be a lot less drunk people (or at least abusive/I've drunk so much I'm throwing up or laying down in the road drunk) in the States than Britain. At least in my experience.

    3. I also really liked the bar culture in the States, sitting at a bar drinking and ending up talking to strangers at the same bar was ace. In the UK we really don't have that, we all sit in our own groups and only go to the bar for drinks. On the plus side we don't have to tip the staff. (unless it is a sit down meal, then we tip 10%)

    4. I was suprised by the amount of great beer in the States, although was annoyied when I got a porter and it was cold, even though the tasting notes said it was best served warm. God dam it, if you are going to do an ale, serve it how it is meant to be served. (which isn't really warm, just warmer than chilled)

    5. I know who is on our £10 notes (Darwin for the moment, although that is changing to Jane Austen at some point in the future) then Adam Smith on the £20. Not sure about the fiver though and the £50 note is so rare that nobody really knows what one.

  • Catching up on this shit now (for no particular reason). When you guys talk about "the listener", do you mean it like "the common man" or do you mean "we have exactly one listener"?
  • edited August 2013
    The latter, with a little of the former. It's an It's All Politics reference.
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • How was the smell?
    Sorry man, but it truly is what scares me off cons.
  • edited August 2013
    In the case of a specific example of stomping on the rights of non-citizens outside of its borders, I'm assuming you're referring to spying as violating the Fourth Amendment?
    Pretty much what I was thinking of, but I don't doubt other examples exist. ECHELON(Which my country Participates in by giving land for an operational outpost, and which they do have the ability to request data from - which I actively protest), PRISIM(which goes through the same facility), also the First Amendment with SOPA/PIPA/Unnamed future internet restriction bill, the treatment of Julian Assange, so on, so fourth.

    Drone strikes alone bother me absolutely not a jot. Just because it's a robot, doesn't make it any different to a human pilot on the scene dropping an AGM through your bedroom window. I do take some issue with the fact of how liberally the US is distributing those munitions, but that's an issue of procedure rather than the tools themselves.
    The only other issue I can come up with is torture, and that's already a violation of US military law (torture is banned in the Army Field Service Manual, for instance), as well as probably a violation of the laws of war. Needless to say, I'm 100% against torture as well.
    Weirdly, it is, but that doesn't make a difference - Because, in the eyes of the US, these people are not protected by the laws of war, because they've broken the laws of war, and are therefore unprivileged combatants(which sounds like something tumblr would love). If they have or have not is a different issue, and not one we can personally answer, but that's the theory.

    That doesn't make it okay(or legal, necessarily) to torture people, but it's kinda not against the laws of war, because they're not people within a group that's protected by that set of laws that dictates how one must treat prisoners of war. Other sets of laws deal with that.
    How was the smell?
    Sorry man, but it truly is what scares me off cons.
    Generally fine. I didn't really bump into or notice anyone with a distinct pong about them.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • How was the smell?
    Sorry man, but it truly is what scares me off cons.
    Seriously?

    That is a great reason.
    I'm not religious because of the smell.
    I don't go to work because of smells that may be encountered.
    I don't use elevators because of smell.
    I can't stay for desert because of the smell.

    I want to try this in real life and see how people react.
  • Con funk is great and terrible, but PAX is not attended by the same unwashed masses as anime cons, so any smell is minimal.
  • edited August 2013
    I love the sound that the Australian pedestrian crossings make. Pew! Doot doot doot doot! The device even vibrates beyond a normal buzzer so a deaf person could use it.

    When I first went to California I waited at a crossing for the white man to appear but as I was walking it soon changed to a flashing red hand. To me it looked like it was saying "No! Go back! We made a mistake!"

    In both Australia and New York there was a counter that'd say how long it'd be before the traffic would go again.


    Onewild - The woman on our five point note is Elizabeth Fry but she's going to be changed to Winston Churchill. The £50 guy is one of the first Bank of England governers. I think it's a huge loss having Darwin taken off. Churchill should have gone on the £50.

    (Edit: Turns out I've not had a £50 is so long that I didn't realise there's a new version in circulation.)


    On freedom of speech for a movie or game that is restricted; seems like either you see it as a restriction on the creator or you see it as a restriction on the consumer. Both need to be considered when talking about practical distribution.
    Post edited by Totally Guy on
  • Con funk is great and terrible, but PAX is not attended by the same unwashed masses as anime cons, so any smell is minimal.
    In my experience, there isn't sufficient proof of this. The BCEC is fantastically ventilated, so even the stinkiest nerds wouldn't be able to generate con funk. I only have experience with East, though. I don't know the ins and outs of the Seattle con center.
  • How was the smell?
    Sorry man, but it truly is what scares me off cons.
    No smell.
  • edited August 2013
    Here's a weird one - I encountered two dudes who had been to PAX at the airport, they stank to high heaven. One of them was 100% that guy, two, hunched over a softcore porn mag, pointing and giggling loudly, making rather off-colour remarks to his mate who looked like he'd rather be anywhere else.

    But when I saw them at the show, since they went to one of the wombat lectures and I remembered the pair of them - They didn't smell at all.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • Drone strikes alone bother me absolutely not a jot. Just because it's a robot, doesn't make it any different to a human pilot on the scene dropping an AGM through your bedroom window. I do take some issue with the fact of how liberally the US is distributing those munitions, but that's an issue of procedure rather than the tools themselves.
    I agree with you there on the extent that there is effectively no difference between a drone strike and an F-15E Strike Eagle dropping a GPS-guided bomb from 35,000 feet. The only issue I have is with who they're dropping the bombs on and where they're dropping them. Dropping bombs, by drone, jet, or cruise missile, on Taliban leaders in recognized war zones such as Afghanistan -- sure, that's fine. Some of the drone strikes in Yemen though are more concerning, however.
    Weirdly, it is, but that doesn't make a difference - Because, in the eyes of the US, these people are not protected by the laws of war, because they've broken the laws of war, and are therefore unprivileged combatants(which sounds like something tumblr would love). If they have or have not is a different issue, and not one we can personally answer, but that's the theory.

    That doesn't make it okay(or legal, necessarily) to torture people, but it's kinda not against the laws of war, because they're not people within a group that's protected by that set of laws that dictates how one must treat prisoners of war. Other sets of laws deal with that.
    Good point. I was in a debate with someone else as to whether there is sufficient international law/legal precedent for handling what are essentially extra-national paramilitary organizations or, as I like to use as an example, "How the hell are we supposed to treat Cobra Commander whenever he's captured by GI Joe?"

  • Here's a weird one - I encountered two dudes who had been to PAX at the airport, they stank to high heaven. One of them was 100% that guy, two, hunched over a softcore porn mag, pointing and giggling loudly, making rather off-colour remarks to his mate who looked like he'd rather be anywhere else.

    But when I saw them at the show, since they went to one of the wombat lectures and I remembered the pair of them - They didn't smell at all.
    Depending on where they come from that could be plane funk. I know I stank to hell when I got off the plane from Nepal.

    Also for all this talk of beers. Children if you want to come drink some real stuff come to the west country and try some of this. If your not scared that is. http://www.wychwood.co.uk/#/home//hobgoblin/home
  • Depending on where they come from that could be plane funk. I know I stank to hell when I got off the plane from Nepal.
    That must be some time-traveling travel funk then, since we hadn't been on any plane yet.
    Also for all this talk of beers. Children if you want to come drink some real stuff come to the west country and try some of this. If your not scared that is. http://www.wychwood.co.uk/#/home//hobgoblin/home
    Ah, old hobgoblin? Yeah, it's pretty decent. Also, Havercake, Landlord, Boltmaker, Ram Tam, 1872, Rapture and Diablo are good.

  • AmpAmp
    edited August 2013
    Depending on where they come from that could be plane funk. I know I stank to hell when I got off the plane from Nepal.
    That must be some time-traveling travel funk then, since we hadn't been on any plane yet.
    Also for all this talk of beers. Children if you want to come drink some real stuff come to the west country and try some of this. If your not scared that is. http://www.wychwood.co.uk/#/home//hobgoblin/home
    Ah, old hobgoblin? Yeah, it's pretty decent. Also, Havercake, Landlord, Boltmaker, Ram Tam, 1872, Rapture and Diablo are good.

    Ah yeah I miss read that I thought that you saw them before PAX my bad.
    Edit; Might have been that they didn't care on the plane but wanted to make a good impression?

    Ah some of the classics. Its when you get into some of the wired home brews and microbreweries that it gets fun. I was lucking to have friends who lived near the Uely brewery and boy was that stuff the tits. Honorable mention for Old Speckled Hen.

    Post edited by Amp on
  • edited August 2013
    To be fair, you're starting to see credit card surcharges here in the US too. I see it quite a bit at gas stations where they advertise two separate prices: one for cash and one for credit (usually about $0.05-$0.10 more per gallon for credit).
    I haven't seen that since the 90s except in really backwater towns, and I've never seen it since I moved to New York State.

    This has been popping up a lot in the Seattle area. Mostly on the fringes of the city but considering how small Seattle actually is you run into it pretty often. I'm surprised you haven't seen this in New York and something tells me you may just not notice it if you don't drive much.

    I'm only part way through the podcast so far but one thing I'm curious about is if you guys thought the ketchup tastes strange. I CANNOT STAND Australian ketchup but I find US ketchup to be fine. Also Australia has the best kebabs. I was stoked when I saw them in Vienna but I never got a chance to grab one.
    Post edited by MATATAT on
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