Here and on the podcast, Rym and Scott have said that it is a good thing that people are "feeling it" as a result of the government shutdown. Why is this what we need? In what way is people being inconvenienced going to help anything? Will it really change who they vote for? Do the votes even matter? I'm hard pressed to see anything I can do to change the way this government works.
Here and on the podcast, Rym and Scott have said that it is a good thing that people are "feeling it" as a result of the government shutdown. Why is this what we need? In what way is people being inconvenienced going to help anything? Will it really change who they vote for? Do the votes even matter? I'm hard pressed to see anything I can do to change the way this government works.
Their is a difference between a real "feeling it" and a spiteful "feeling it". In the case of the National Parks we have a very spiteful feeling. Seriously, they are closing down 'scenic lookouts' that are nothing more than a couple of parking spaces and a view!
Feeling it is things like, "sorry, no loan for you because that department is closed." Or even "Unemployment figures? Sorry but that department is closed right now."
I have seen conflicting numbers of just how much of the government is shutdown because some people like to cite body counts while others use dollars. My assumption is that man power wise we are more shutdown than dollar wise.
It's important that people feel it so that they will stop Congress from continuing to do this. If they are inconvenienced enough, they will work harder to complain and change things. When they realize who the people directly causing their complaints are, they turn against them. It could hopefully force the political climate to change a bit.
I agree with you Axel but (at least in the case of the National Parks) it is important that the inconvenience be real and believable. If the inconvenience feels contrived or spiteful then the blame will be placed directly on those who appear to be making things purposefully more inconvenient rather than the people who are actually causing the inconvenience.
And there are really no other conceivable reasons why the park service should be shutting down these places when they don't have any manpower, other than a political "fuck you?" I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Liability for things that happen on federal property, for one thing. Gotta be very careful to keep people out of anything that's federal property where people who routinely clean up or manage public safety are furloughed. That's the real reason parks are closed. If shit goes down in a US park and there are no federal employees on hand to deal with it, that is SUPER BAD. Sure maybe incidents at scenic overlooks are rare, but it only takes one.
Okay, so here's something fun: The USS Constitution. The area it is docked at is designated a National Park and the visitor center and entry is administered by the National Park Agency. Visitation has been suspended as a result of the shutdown. BUT the ship itself is still in commission (on a technicality that they've been taking advantage of for a century or so), and the people who work on the ship itself (as opposed to the gift shop and stuff) are active duty US soldiers. They still have to go to the Constitution every day and stand on guard, even though there won't be any visitors.
As if it wasn't already the best gig in the armed forces...
How is the Constitution being a commissioned ship a "technicality they've been taking advantage of"? I thought it was just an openly acknowledged haha-only-serious type thing.
And there are really no other conceivable reasons why the park service should be shutting down these places when they don't have any manpower, other than a political "fuck you?" I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Someone trips on some rubbish that wasn't cleaned up because the cleaning staff was furloughed. Isn't that a liability issue? Also, in the case of things like Yellowstone, you have lost hiker types that the government workers (park rangers) routinely fish out of there.
How is the Constitution being a commissioned ship a "technicality they've been taking advantage of"? I thought it was just an openly acknowledged haha-only-serious type thing.
Both are the case. I suppose I should've said a "technicality they've been using" instead.
And there are really no other conceivable reasons why the park service should be shutting down these places when they don't have any manpower, other than a political "fuck you?" I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I'm pretty sure it's required by law, but fucked if I know.
I am a bit confused. The govt workers at the national mall are or are not being paid right now? If they are being paid why are they barricading rather than keeping things open?
If they are not being paid then aren't they acting more like striking workers?
Some people are working without pay. Some people are not working at all and are also not being paid. Some people are working and being paid.
Different categories of federal workers are in different situations. The ones doing the barricading are not necessarily the ones not getting paid. And they might be doing the barricading because they are police/public safety officers, not the people who keep the mall clean and orderly.
Seriously, does everybody in America think that every federal employee has the same job? A police officer is not a park ranger.
One thing that I'm a little annoyed at is the situation with people who aren't working that are "non-essential" may have the possibility of getting paid and possibly without the use of leave if and when Congress clears up all this shit.
Either way, it's not fair to either side. I wouldn't mind one or two days to take care of errands or to relax. I can sacrifice that much. I can't even offer one day to give for "non-essential" employees to work so they can possibly earn that day back.
I'm very angry, depressed, and doing what I can to get through each fucking day. I'm thinking of writing Senator Patty Murray on this due to the fact she is the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs. The medical centers are still open and not really affected by this shutdown because they are on a two year budget.
The benefits side is affected. It really vexes me how the benefits side has been under hot water with the claims backlog and now we're being furloughed. It's not helping morale nor with the backlog.
From Facebook. Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare." Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare." Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare." July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare." Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare." March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare." April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare." Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare." Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare." Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW." June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare." Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare." Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare." Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare." Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare." June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare." July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare." Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare." Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
Damn. Obama's press conference is kicking ass! I think the Q&A section is even better than the speech. He is doing one hell of a job explaining the issue without coming off as condescending to anyone and he is giving Republicans a way out of the corner they are stuck in.
Anyone see this trucker protest thing? THey apparently want to try blocking DC roads and arresting congress because of Muslims in the government, environmental regulations, and diesel prices.
Anyone see this trucker protest thing? THey apparently want to try blocking DC roads and arresting congress because of Muslims in the government, environmental regulations, and diesel prices.
Comments
Feeling it is things like, "sorry, no loan for you because that department is closed." Or even "Unemployment figures? Sorry but that department is closed right now."
I have seen conflicting numbers of just how much of the government is shutdown because some people like to cite body counts while others use dollars. My assumption is that man power wise we are more shutdown than dollar wise.
As if it wasn't already the best gig in the armed forces...
Who gets to be on the back?
If they are not being paid then aren't they acting more like striking workers?
Different categories of federal workers are in different situations. The ones doing the barricading are not necessarily the ones not getting paid. And they might be doing the barricading because they are police/public safety officers, not the people who keep the mall clean and orderly.
Seriously, does everybody in America think that every federal employee has the same job? A police officer is not a park ranger.
Either way, it's not fair to either side. I wouldn't mind one or two days to take care of errands or to relax. I can sacrifice that much. I can't even offer one day to give for "non-essential" employees to work so they can possibly earn that day back.
I'm very angry, depressed, and doing what I can to get through each fucking day. I'm thinking of writing Senator Patty Murray on this due to the fact she is the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs. The medical centers are still open and not really affected by this shutdown because they are on a two year budget.
The benefits side is affected. It really vexes me how the benefits side has been under hot water with the claims backlog and now we're being furloughed. It's not helping morale nor with the backlog.
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"