This forum is in permanent archive mode. Our new active community can be found here.

GeekNights Tuesday - Nidhogg

Nidhogg is a fantastic, simple, two-player orthogame that exemplifies the "genre" so well defined by games such as Pong, Spacewar, and Outlaw! Local multiplayer and simple direct competition are seeing a renaissance that will only continue throughout 2014. In other annual news, Nintendo is suffering heavily from the Fiscal Year of Luigi (and their corporate culture that creates excellent hardware that almost no games actually use), and Torchbearer works wonderfully via Google Hangout. In personal news, we've all but stopped playing games that require teaching others, and encourage tabletop gamers everywhere to actually read the rules to games.

Download MP3
Source Link
«1

Comments

  • Just listened to the episode while shoveling out my driveway. Thoughts:

    - I want to extend your thought about board game rules teaching. The oral tradition is pushing the hobby in a direction I don't like. Since everyone is used to sitting down and being taught a game before they play, they expect a rules teaching session, and therefore wind up becoming these players that are always chasing the new games. Board games are different! They are much less likely to become outdated, and I really want to spend more time playing the classics and tight competitions.

    - Nintendo has obvious leadership and culture problems. It is with shocking ignorance that they were caught pants-down unable to develop HD content in a timely fashion. This punted their ENTIRE first party development schedule. Combine that with a tablet controller that will never be a core gameplay element, and a lack of understanding about US online play culture, and you're NOT going to get Gamecube quality games. At least not out of the gate.

    The only thing you need to read about Nintendo is Chris Kohler's editorials on Wired. His latest is great.
  • Why do hockey players get so angry, it's just a game.
  • So if there is a brand new game at board game night, all players must read the rules before any attempt at the game? :P
  • I don't think it's that extreme. There are teaching games, and there are competitive games. Ideally you have each game be 100% one or the other, but almost always there is the 1 new guy being taught while the others attempt to play competitively. If there is new hotness, you should all learn it together (and ideally some people will have peeked at the book in advance if the night was planned to play this game). Otherwise, play something you all know.
  • I was merely jesting. But I understand this all too well. I miss the ultimate playing of 7 Wonders at PAX East last year. All pros, all turns went fast.

    Now every time I play, always 1 new person that you have to teach. UGH. Fast draft! Fast draft! However, I don't ever expect everyone to remember all the new symbols on the newer expansions.
  • Rochelle said:

    So if there is a brand new game at board game night, all players must read the rules before any attempt at the game? :P

    Obviously not. Games still get taught. That will always be a thing. THe problem is that I often see that there are groups where one person reads all the rules, and all others rely on them entirely. Other people flat out refuse to ever read rulebooks, and often lack the skills to do so properly.

    Everyone needs to read the rules some of the time. More than one person needs to completely read the rules to any given game. All players need to be capable of reading a rule book, and also quickly referencing a rulebook without needing any outside help.

    Take 7 Wonders for example. I never remember all the cities, leaders, wonders, and weird symbols. It's inevitable that I have to look them up. Especially since I'll go months without playing, and then it suddenly gets busted out at a convention. But when I have to look up a leader, I can grab the book, and very quickly read the rule. Not only that, but I understand what I have read, and I get the rule right without any outside help. This prevents the game flow from being disrupted if I had to force someone to explain something to me.

    A game with even one player who needs their hand-held is a game that is not fun for the other players. To be that person who needs hand-holding is quite selfish. Those people are demanding that others read the rules for them, and teach them. They also require that other people suffer through one or more shitty games with them until they get the hang of it.

    I don't want to not introduce someone to the wonders of tabletop gaming. But I also want to be able to enjoy those wonders myself. That means I want to play games with other people who are also experts at the game and fully know the rules. If board gaming is biking, I'm going to be very upset if someone sits in the back seat of my tandem bike and doesn't pedal. Everyone has to pedal.
  • I know. I'm just messing because I'm one of those people. I will read rule books here and there, but I have so many other friends that do it so well. ^_~

    Also I've had this discussion with Jeremy and told him the era of Game Cube was the best, while he disagrees and states N64. This is only because we mainly spent time playing the one system more than the other.

    But as I've stated before: Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, Four Swords, Mario Kart: Double Dash were some of the best multi-player games I've played.

    They fell short with the sequel to FF:CC. Sigh. I want to play FF:CC again as a different class but at the same time I don't.
  • I remember being stoked about Crystal Chronicles, then my friends and I acquired a bunch of those connector cables and played the game. Then I remember I felt like I wasted my money. I absolutely hated double dash.


    N64: Mario Kart 64, Snowboard Kids, 1080 snowboarding, goldeneye, perfect dark, Duke Nukem 64, smash bros, star fox 64, gauntlet legends, goemon game, tony hawk game, etc.
    GC: SSBM, Phantasy Star, soul calibur

    I can't even think of other games I liked multi on GC
  • "One person taught me a board game with no mistakes."

    Two people! Because Homesteaders and Fairy Tale are relatively simple to teach.

    ... Actually that may have been the Homesteaders game where I realized gold can be 5 silver for any purpose, which would make you correct.
  • I melee was the only Gamecube game, it still would have been the most-played system during my college years.

    For all of the failure (and let's not treat it lightly, Wii U is beyond your wildest nightmares bad when compared to any prior Nintendo console sales), I still can't count Nintendo out. They can have several more false starts and still eventually hit another home run.

    I spent my snow days yesterday and today beating Super Mario 3D World on Wii U and damn that game is so good. That's why I'll never count Nintendo out. They obviously still have genius-level talent in game design, they just haven't used it properly as of late (the lack of a valid follow up to GC WarioWare is a GREAT example). Until they no longer even have the potential for greatness, I'll still follow Nintendo and care about their games.
  • But at the same time, they dumbed down Mario Tennis.

    They dumbed down Mario Tennis.
  • I still can't fucking believe that. They have seriously abused some of these franchises. They dumbed down Smash Bros with Brawl as well, which was the last straw for me, and I didn't touch a Nintendo product for a long, long time. It was like they went out of their way to remove every aspect of Melee that made it such a unique runaway hit.

    If they can get it together with this next Smash, I have a feeling the Wii U is going to go have a nice library when people look back at its failure, years from now. I can see that their design strategy for 1st party games is going back to no-bullshit GC days. No more stupid motion controls, no wedging the tablet in as a must-use feature where it doesn't make sense. The dumbing down is my only fear.
  • I'm interested in their changes. I find I have less problems with Brawl than other people, as Melee competitive scene is not actually appealing to me (Unintended glitches dominate the meta), but I understand the dumbing down (Tripping was dumb, and final smashes were not balanced or interesting). It looks like the metagame is totally different if you follow Sakurai's daily photo postings, so I'm curious what this will end up like.
  • You neglected to mention the floaty characters which made the game baby mode when compared to Melee. I enjoy all the games to an extent but Melee is the only game where I've actually competed in several tournaments for so it has a special place in my heart.
  • I predict that the new SSB will be baby's first, and the competitive scene will completely ignore it.
  • That's probably true. I won't really care because Mega Man.

    But yeah, Sakurai doesn't really like competition or any of that stuff. It's pretty obvious from interviews.
  • Coincidentally, they just announced today that edge hogging is changing. Sounds shitty on paper, but it may be interesting in practice.
  • Also I wish competitive puzzle games would make a comeback, or at least that they'd make a new Puzzle Fighter.
  • I was actually indirectly referring to that earlier two posts of mine ago.
  • Listing to you guys talk about the lack of games for the Nintendo gun got me thinking. Where there ever any games for this.
    image
  • Battleclash and Yoshi's Safari, I had both of them. Battleclash is probably why I enjoy G Gundam.
  • Tomovasky said:

    Listing to you guys talk about the lack of games for the Nintendo gun got me thinking. Where there ever any games for this.
    image

    Pretty sure I mentioned it, and it did not have very many games at all.
  • edited January 2014
    MrPeriod said:
    I would not recommend a Hockey goalie try to play a MOBA.
    Matt said:

    I still can't fucking believe that. They have seriously abused some of these franchises. They dumbed down Smash Bros with Brawl as well, which was the last straw for me, and I didn't touch a Nintendo product for a long, long time. It was like they went out of their way to remove every aspect of Melee that made it such a unique runaway hit.

    If they can get it together with this next Smash, I have a feeling the Wii U is going to go have a nice library when people look back at its failure, years from now. I can see that their design strategy for 1st party games is going back to no-bullshit GC days. No more stupid motion controls, no wedging the tablet in as a must-use feature where it doesn't make sense. The dumbing down is my only fear.

    Did you ever try Project M?

    There have been stirrings that Nintendo have looked at Project M and the Smash scene but it's all conjecture at this point.
    Post edited by sK0pe on
  • edited January 2014
    repost
    Post edited by sK0pe on
  • sK0pe said:

    Did you ever try Project M?

    It's on my radar, but I haven't gotten around to it. I have people over my house fairly often, but we're playing other stuff for the most part (Smash did come out during our Extra Life marathon).
    Rym said:

    I predict that the new SSB will be baby's first, and the competitive scene will completely ignore it.

    God I hope you're wrong this time, but I'll be the first to admit this is very possible.

    I really don't care about the true competitive scene. I have very little patience for the wavedashing Fox-only, no items, Final Destination bullshit. I exist in some mid-range competitive zone, where we keep the items on, but take the worst offenders out, and have a rotation of 5 or 6 "generally fair" stages. This is how my friends and I play, and we immediately were put off by the floatiness and the tripping in Brawl (as well as the non-functioning online play).

  • edited January 2014
    At the weekend the person teaching 7 Wonders to a new player told me that my yellow card that scored points for yellow cards did not count itself. I reached for the rulebook but then realised that I'd not ever read it before. So I didn't know where to look.

    I checked the specific rule after the game.

    I played a game of Puerto Rico a few months back in which another player was teaching the game to a new player. During the game the teacher player told me I had to choose my plantation before I got my random hacienda tile. I reached for the rulebook and as I had read it before I turned straight to right section and showed the guy I was playing correctly by taking the random tile first.

    That's the difference right there.

    I don't own Seven Wonders but I know there are places to freely download rules so that's not the best excuse.
    Post edited by Totally Guy on
  • Impressions are coming in from reviewers on the new Yoshi's Island game, and it appears to be baby's first. The ominous trend continues.
  • edited January 2014
    Matt said:

    Impressions are coming in from reviewers on the new Yoshi's Island game, and it appears to be baby's first. The ominous trend continues.

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

    Man, I really wanted more of SMW2:YI action. Assholes. All of them!
    Post edited by Rochelle on
  • I just watched you Scott and Rym stream.
    For all the virtues that this game was blessed with, there were many comments on spawn positions, complaints about jumping and running, one person having more knowledge than the other, how one player was recovering faster there was even a frame data comment.

    It looks as if it has the same complexity as any other 1v1 competitive game, it's just simplified to to 2 buttons.
  • edited January 2014
    See also: Divekick. It's a competitive fighting game with most of the complicated moves stripped out. I'd say it's just a lower amount of game-specific knowledge required while still using the same skills.
    Post edited by Linkigi(Link-ee-jee) on
Sign In or Register to comment.