I'm excited for this, a lot of the more negative discussion on the Burning Wheel subreddit always revolved around the fact that the Gold book references the supplements, which weren't in print. Hell, all of the bans I've had to issue in the life of it have been because of that same issue.
I hope he posts pictures of the ridiculous hand-made one, sounds crazy.
I enjoy the fact that he talk like a gibbering madman for his pitch and then remembers "Oh shit, right; Some people don't know burning wheel" a few days later.
So, I have Burning Wheel gold, and I kicked the codex and just got that. I have a group that meets on the regular. So I have all that going for me.
Major negative the first: I've never played Burning wheel before; the second: I'm the only one in the group with the books; the third: the group doesn't like the idea of doing one of the pre made adventures (like that one where you go off into a cave for a sword and guy with sword at the end "wins"), mostly because they would prefer their own character creation. They'd do it if they got to burn their own characters.
So now to where I need someone more skilled at the wheel than I. What's the best way to approach this from the perspective of someone who wants to play some burning wheel.
Do I cover to cover Gold so as to facilitate the character burning process and then just run the adventure where we're trying to get out of the cave with a sword using characters my players can call their own?
Do I go full on blind leading the blind and try and burn my own campaign, then help my players burn characters and then try and run that, shit show though it would be mistakes abound.
Do I wait and try and con someone into letting my newbie self into a game at a con so I can get comfortable with the mechanics and hopefully facilitate my running my own game?
Or do I just give up on playing burning wheel as the craze has kinda died down and it seems the last burning con was in 2013.
In my mind, Burning Wheel is second only to Apocalypse World in how fundamentally it will change the way you view and play roleplaying games. You have to experience it.
Kidnap your friends and hold them until they break down if necessary.
I see you think it's important I play, share your fervor, it's just I'd like to play without having to go off and search for a new group of friends to play with, like kidnapping my current crew would probably accomplish. Hence my question. Burning wheel looks like the best rp experience I'll have ever had and I want to play it, but I just don't feel like I know enough to run a game, having never played. I might have a go at trying to do that anyway if I have something like a short one session adventure to help guide me through. It's just character burning for said adventure seems a bit much for a newbie. Should I do it anyway?
From your post it seems that you have experience with running or at least playing tabletop rpgs. In that case you should be fine with just running the game.
First read the book. The basic rules part is obviously the most important one, then read enough of character creation part to be able to guide your players through it. Rest you can read between the character creation session and the first real play session based on what seems important (if there is no wizards in the group, no rush in learning magic rules, for example).
Then talk with your group. Tell them what kind of game Burning Wheel is, basic fantasy where characters struggle a lot to achieve their goals. And discuss what kind of game or campaign they would be interested in, classic traveling adventures, big city thieves guild intrigue, noble politics, something else maybe. Then just keep talking until you have some simple premise that people are into. At this point players probably have some idea of what kind of characters they want to play so that should be easy enough. Do world building on the fly, adding details as needed and stuff that doesn't come up during the session you can think up when doing prep for the first actual play session.
Well you're right in that I've certainly played tabletop rpgs before, mostly d&d though, (well pathfinder but if we're all honest with ourselves) and a bit of shadowrun. Both of those are the types where 90% of your character sheet is stuff not about role playing.
Anyway, it seems step 1 is reading the basic rules and through character creation so until I'm done with that I don't need more help. It's kind of a relief that I don't have to read all of gold. That thing is dense.
Burning Wheel instructs you on how to approach it. Read the book up through the Hub, where it tells you to stop reading and make characters. Grab a friend, make characters, and play out some basic interactions. It's super helpful if they've read the Hub as well. Loan them your copy; the Hub is also a free pdf from the Burning Store.
If they're also on board, then the two of you should run The Sword for your group. If they don't like it or don't want to try, now you're at square one for finding or making a group to play Burning Wheel.
The problem with The Sword and my group isn't that they don't want to play, they do. They just refuse to use a character they didn't create. They feel this interferes with their own ability to roleplay. My guess is somewhere down the line they tried it in an inferior game and had problems. I'm willing to give that to them.
They're bad roleplayers and you will have minor problems forever. I've seen people like that before, and they tend to always play the same sort of character, often using "BUT IT'S WHAT MY CHARACTER WOULD DO" as an excuse to be a dick.
I'll definitely concede that they tend to play the same sort of characters, though they've not been doing anything particularly dickish in the years I've been enjoying tabletop rpgs with them since we met in college.
Definitely will also concede that I'll probably have minor problems with them forever, as I already have minor problems with them. You could say I'm in the market for a new group of friends without this set of minor issues, but then we're getting into why noone will game with you territory. I'm largely willing to accept my set of sub par role players as they're actually nice people. But that means extra headache getting into Burning Wheel.
Being that stubborn and close-minded is a tremendously negative character trait and a huge warning sign. That's not a minor problem in the book of Scott.
Being that stubborn and close-minded is a tremendously negative character trait and a huge warning sign. That's not a minor problem in the book of Scott.
Ah, I see the solution to my "Get myself into a game of burning wheel" problem is, abandon friends, get better ones.
They won't play ONE Session as a per-defined character and after that make their own?
I might be able to convince them to play one session as pre defined characters. I just worry that it'll be a huge uphill battle and because they've been dragged to this point they go in with the wrong mindset and end up not enjoying themselves.
@Naoza look like one of the mods of r/Burningwheel is having a Demo game. Even if you don't play he is allowing observers.
I will definitely be watching that. Or trying to, it's not the kinda thing I can focus with my full attention for a long time, but definitely second monitor fodder.
If you want to ease crappy players into playing good roleplaying games that will teach them not to be shit, though, Burning Wheel is not a great place to start. It presumes you want to play a good roleplaying game, which a lot of people don't.
To start tricking your group into being better roleplayers, begin with Dungeon World.
I mean, you could totally modify the game and let them make characters on their own. In some ways, I've thought The Sword could benefit from showing people the process before you actually roll dice - design the scenario and Beliefs together.
Impress upon them that it'll be a steeper learning curve. But in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't mean much as long as they get the concept of tying their Beliefs to the situation.
Ok, I'll bite, I'll read up on Dungeon World, but intuitively, it doesn't seem like the best way to get myself into a game of burning wheel is to get myself into a game, not burning wheel.
Ok, I'll bite, I'll read up on Dungeon World, but intuitively, it doesn't seem like the best way to get myself into a game of burning wheel is to get myself into a game, not burning wheel.
Your friends are babies who won't eat broccoli. Maybe you can convince them to eat a carrot. if they like the carrot, maybe they'll open up to broccoli later.
Seriously. New friends.
Actually, move to NYC. That's the answer to everything.
Ok, I'll bite, I'll read up on Dungeon World, but intuitively, it doesn't seem like the best way to get myself into a game of burning wheel is to get myself into a game, not burning wheel.
Your friends are babies who won't eat broccoli. Maybe you can convince them to eat a carrot. if they like the carrot, maybe they'll open up to broccoli later.
Seriously. New friends.
Actually, move to NYC. That's the answer to everything.
I'm trying to move to the city. For reals; but barring finding a job that makes me enough monies to live there it's like a 3-5 year plan. In the meantime I wanna play some Burning Wheel.
Also I'm like 40 mins from grand central. I can be in the city after work. So second question, treat me like I already moved to NYC, now what?
Ok, I'll bite, I'll read up on Dungeon World, but intuitively, it doesn't seem like the best way to get myself into a game of burning wheel is to get myself into a game, not burning wheel.
Your friends are babies who won't eat broccoli. Maybe you can convince them to eat a carrot. if they like the carrot, maybe they'll open up to broccoli later.
Seriously. New friends.
Actually, move to NYC. That's the answer to everything.
I'm trying to move to the city. For reals; but barring finding a job that makes me enough monies to live there it's like a 3-5 year plan. In the meantime I wanna play some Burning Wheel.
Also I'm like 40 mins from grand central. I can be in the city after work. So second question, treat me like I already moved to NYC, now what?
Find 3 other people in the city who are reliable and not "that guy". Then I'll run a game.
Ok, I'll bite, I'll read up on Dungeon World, but intuitively, it doesn't seem like the best way to get myself into a game of burning wheel is to get myself into a game, not burning wheel.
I wouldn't say that reading Dungeon World would help you to get into Burning Wheel, but it helps you to get into fantasy rpg that isn't D&D.
Only way to get into Burning Wheel is to play Burning Wheel, but it's not only good game out there. I love Burning Wheel and it's probably my favorite table top rpg, but treating it as some holy prophet of perfect gaming is just foolish.
Comments
I hope he posts pictures of the ridiculous hand-made one, sounds crazy.
Major negative the first: I've never played Burning wheel before; the second: I'm the only one in the group with the books; the third: the group doesn't like the idea of doing one of the pre made adventures (like that one where you go off into a cave for a sword and guy with sword at the end "wins"), mostly because they would prefer their own character creation. They'd do it if they got to burn their own characters.
So now to where I need someone more skilled at the wheel than I. What's the best way to approach this from the perspective of someone who wants to play some burning wheel.
Do I cover to cover Gold so as to facilitate the character burning process and then just run the adventure where we're trying to get out of the cave with a sword using characters my players can call their own?
Do I go full on blind leading the blind and try and burn my own campaign, then help my players burn characters and then try and run that, shit show though it would be mistakes abound.
Do I wait and try and con someone into letting my newbie self into a game at a con so I can get comfortable with the mechanics and hopefully facilitate my running my own game?
Or do I just give up on playing burning wheel as the craze has kinda died down and it seems the last burning con was in 2013.
In my mind, Burning Wheel is second only to Apocalypse World in how fundamentally it will change the way you view and play roleplaying games. You have to experience it.
Kidnap your friends and hold them until they break down if necessary.
First read the book. The basic rules part is obviously the most important one, then read enough of character creation part to be able to guide your players through it. Rest you can read between the character creation session and the first real play session based on what seems important (if there is no wizards in the group, no rush in learning magic rules, for example).
Then talk with your group. Tell them what kind of game Burning Wheel is, basic fantasy where characters struggle a lot to achieve their goals. And discuss what kind of game or campaign they would be interested in, classic traveling adventures, big city thieves guild intrigue, noble politics, something else maybe. Then just keep talking until you have some simple premise that people are into. At this point players probably have some idea of what kind of characters they want to play so that should be easy enough. Do world building on the fly, adding details as needed and stuff that doesn't come up during the session you can think up when doing prep for the first actual play session.
Anyway, it seems step 1 is reading the basic rules and through character creation so until I'm done with that I don't need more help. It's kind of a relief that I don't have to read all of gold. That thing is dense.
If they're also on board, then the two of you should run The Sword for your group. If they don't like it or don't want to try, now you're at square one for finding or making a group to play Burning Wheel.
YMMV though
Definitely will also concede that I'll probably have minor problems with them forever, as I already have minor problems with them. You could say I'm in the market for a new group of friends without this set of minor issues, but then we're getting into why noone will game with you territory. I'm largely willing to accept my set of sub par role players as they're actually nice people. But that means extra headache getting into Burning Wheel.
To start tricking your group into being better roleplayers, begin with Dungeon World.
Impress upon them that it'll be a steeper learning curve. But in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't mean much as long as they get the concept of tying their Beliefs to the situation.
Seriously. New friends.
Actually, move to NYC. That's the answer to everything.
Also I'm like 40 mins from grand central. I can be in the city after work. So second question, treat me like I already moved to NYC, now what?
Only way to get into Burning Wheel is to play Burning Wheel, but it's not only good game out there. I love Burning Wheel and it's probably my favorite table top rpg, but treating it as some holy prophet of perfect gaming is just foolish.