Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
This forum is in permanent archive mode. Our new active community can be found here.
Religion
Hello, I am 14 and in the process of re-examining my religious beliefs. I have been raised as a Catholic, but I definitely know that I am not a Catholic. I have had the thought that I am not a catholic but rather a non-denominational Christian for quite some time now. However, this past Thanksgiving, I got into a discussion about religion with my aunt and really started thinking about it. There are so many religions in the world, and a good number of them say that people who do not practice that religion will go to hell. What religion you are is dependent on where you are born. If you are born in Spain, you will probably be a Catholic. If you are born in Saudi Arabia, you will probably be a Muslim. I do not understand how any god could allow so many people to go to hell because they had the misfortune of being born into the wrong religion.
I went onto the internet and saw a link on digg to a Dawkins lecture. I sat down and watched it. I have since watched many programs, lectures, and interviews with Dawkins in them. I had always thought that God created evolution, but I am not so sure if there was a god who created evolution now.
The Christian bible says so many horrible things that I don't know how anyone could believe that God could be so harsh. How could Jesus tell people to kill those who did not believe in the Christian faith? How could god tell someone to kill their own child to prove their belief in him? Any modern person who read various things in Leviticus would call them absurd. Is it ok now to cherry pick different parts of the bible? If so, does it mean anything? I think not.
I used to believe that god could not be explained by our current understanding of the world and that he was in a realm outside of physics. I no longer believe that due to two things. First, this logic could be used to explain anything such as the FSM or the tooth fairy or the pink unicorn. Second, there is no conclusive evidence in my opinion that Jesus was alive on our Earth. From what I have heard so far, the time of his life has been disputed as well as various details of his life. There was no writing about him from after his death until 70AD when the first gospel was begun. What happened during this period? Was he just forgotten about? Surely the son of god could not be forgot about for so many decades.
Dawkins makes a point when he says that it would be harder to explain a Creator who created the universe than it would be to explain how the universe was made by natural means.
I live in a highly conservative area and am surrounded by people who blindly believe in the Christian faith. It is not their fault, as they have been raised to believe that Christianity is the right answer and if they choose anything else, they will go to hell and suffer forever. They have been warned that they will be tempted to turn away from Christianity by the devil. Is Darwin the devil? I highly doubt it. I think it is horrible that my peers are being subjected to such a thing - and from such an early age. I recently watched Jesus Camp and it is one of the most disturbing, if not the most disturbing, documentaries I have seen in my life. I was speaking with a peer a couple days ago and he insisted that the Earth was only 10,000 years old and that carbon dating was fake. How someone could deny such clear evidence that is right in front of their face is astounding to me.
I think that I am agnostic for now. I do not know whether or not I believe that there was a god who created the big bang or not. I do not know how the big bang happened. I highly doubt that I will ever know how it happened. I will not go so far as to say that there is no god at all, but I will not say that I necessarily believe in one at this point in time. I do know that I do not believe in any current god that man believes in.
Anyway, I suppose I should get on to my original reason for posting this. I do realize that it is a personal question, and I would only like those people who feel comfortable replying to do so. What are your religious beliefs and why? How did you come to those beliefs?
(I have never posted on the forums before despite having listened to geeknights since Otakon. I suspect the infamous Mr. Period will rip my post apart xD)
I went onto the internet and saw a link on digg to a Dawkins lecture. I sat down and watched it. I have since watched many programs, lectures, and interviews with Dawkins in them. I had always thought that God created evolution, but I am not so sure if there was a god who created evolution now.
The Christian bible says so many horrible things that I don't know how anyone could believe that God could be so harsh. How could Jesus tell people to kill those who did not believe in the Christian faith? How could god tell someone to kill their own child to prove their belief in him? Any modern person who read various things in Leviticus would call them absurd. Is it ok now to cherry pick different parts of the bible? If so, does it mean anything? I think not.
I used to believe that god could not be explained by our current understanding of the world and that he was in a realm outside of physics. I no longer believe that due to two things. First, this logic could be used to explain anything such as the FSM or the tooth fairy or the pink unicorn. Second, there is no conclusive evidence in my opinion that Jesus was alive on our Earth. From what I have heard so far, the time of his life has been disputed as well as various details of his life. There was no writing about him from after his death until 70AD when the first gospel was begun. What happened during this period? Was he just forgotten about? Surely the son of god could not be forgot about for so many decades.
Dawkins makes a point when he says that it would be harder to explain a Creator who created the universe than it would be to explain how the universe was made by natural means.
I live in a highly conservative area and am surrounded by people who blindly believe in the Christian faith. It is not their fault, as they have been raised to believe that Christianity is the right answer and if they choose anything else, they will go to hell and suffer forever. They have been warned that they will be tempted to turn away from Christianity by the devil. Is Darwin the devil? I highly doubt it. I think it is horrible that my peers are being subjected to such a thing - and from such an early age. I recently watched Jesus Camp and it is one of the most disturbing, if not the most disturbing, documentaries I have seen in my life. I was speaking with a peer a couple days ago and he insisted that the Earth was only 10,000 years old and that carbon dating was fake. How someone could deny such clear evidence that is right in front of their face is astounding to me.
I think that I am agnostic for now. I do not know whether or not I believe that there was a god who created the big bang or not. I do not know how the big bang happened. I highly doubt that I will ever know how it happened. I will not go so far as to say that there is no god at all, but I will not say that I necessarily believe in one at this point in time. I do know that I do not believe in any current god that man believes in.
Anyway, I suppose I should get on to my original reason for posting this. I do realize that it is a personal question, and I would only like those people who feel comfortable replying to do so. What are your religious beliefs and why? How did you come to those beliefs?
(I have never posted on the forums before despite having listened to geeknights since Otakon. I suspect the infamous Mr. Period will rip my post apart xD)
Comments
First off, I would like to point you to these past discussions here in the past.
- Atheism- Where the fuck did we come from?
- That Atheism Quote
- How did you come about your religious beliefs?
- Benefits of Belief
Also, be sure to check out Scryms personal opinion on the matter on their Atheism episode. Origins Week- AtheismWhat is most disturbing to me, is that organized Religions manipulate their followers to believe myth as fact. More specifically, they take proven scientific fact and point it out as "evil" and the work as the devil. They prevent their followers from questioning the world around them. While I do not have an issue with people believing in a higher deity/god/FSM, it is when they lie and deceive others to believe what they believe that I take issue with. Personally, I am pretty much atheist, or rather I prefer to be called a naturalist.
**On a side note, after reading the other threads that were linked, I feel that people are confused as to what religion really is. At least in my opinion, I feel that religion is not meant to be a matter of believing, but rather faith. Although you may find some doctrine in your religion illogical or incomprehensible, it all boils down to just having faith. Now, by all means, do not get me wrong. I'm not telling anyone to have blind and/or ignorant faith. I encourage everyone to seek answers for any questions they might have. It's just that I just feel that having faith is what religion is about.**
Since I did not go on a mission, I went through basically humiliation from everyone around me, even those who I did not even know. (I was working at Subway at the time, some random stranger assumed I was out of H.S. and to make small chit-chat, asked when I was going on a mission. When I told him I was not going on one, the man became very awkward and I could sense the instant judgement. Ridiculous, no? People who instantly judge like that piss me off more than anything.) My family felt I was making the biggest mistake in my life and they let me know it....multiple times. Not only did I not go on a mission, but I finally chose not to attend church anymore. That just made things worse with my family. All my siblings feel that the path they chose is the ONLY way to make it through life. I say, "Bollocks!"
I have been inactive for 2 years now. And although I don't attend church, I still believe there is a god. However, I don't think any one church has all the right answers. I've noticed many similarities between different religions, each has it's own differences though. If you want answers, the only thing I can advise you to do, is to search far and wide for them. And seek different opinions. Not only should you seek the answers from different people/religions, but also ask "Why?" Remember, people/religions tend to all be biased in one way or another (including mine). When you have done all the research you want on any given topic, sort through all the answers and choose the one that rings true to you and you feel to be the "best" answer. It may or may not be the right one, but you will (hopefully) be satisfied with that answer.
In conclusion, I feel that the most important aspect of life is that every single person choose for themselves. Don't be bothered if people around you disagree with your point of view. However, equally as important, don't forget that they themselves have their own choices to make and respect their choices. You can't expect people to be understanding of you, if you yourself are not understanding of them. I feel this aspect is often overlooked by many people.
Anyways, just my two cents.
I see "organized" religion much as I see "organized" crime, both offer protection at a price.
How you live your life is far more important than going somewhere on Sundays. If you take a good hard look at Jesus's teachings you will see that the Catholic church is not following them.
Jesus's basic message is to be nice to those around you and treat them as you would want to be treated, make them family.
He was also against organized religion (ironic, no) especially the selling of forgiveness and other corruptions of the church.
I arrived at my atheist conclusions when I was young, about 12 or 13 years old. I always had an interest in nature and science, and the more I learned about science, the more I found that religions had a hell of a lot of explaining to do. I began to see religions as something that was used to organize, direct, and control people. Once all fantasy and promise of heavens and threats of hell were brushed aside, all you had left was dogma and psychological control mechanisms.
While I understand that being 'spiritual' or feeling the need to believe in something greater is necessary for some people, and I respect that to a certain extent, it simply doesn't fly for me. It makes zero sense.
I find current religions a mockery of humanity, filled with contradiction in message and rotten in moral fiber.
I believe that we are here, this is all the time we have, and we should enjoy our lives and help make the lives of others happy and beneficial for them and for all.
Thanks to those who have shared =3
Yeah, I recently went through that too... It just seems so odd to me that for some reason it seems so obvious and yet there are so many religious people surrounding me. I've decided not to make any permanent decision right now and just live indifferent to "the weather or weather not" for the time being. I figured this would be the best choice to ease me into the idea of no such god because, growing up all your life believing in one, it kind of makes a big change.
I am currently in the confirmation program and I will be confirmed because my parents want me to. They say that it is ok if I do not believe in God, but as long as I am living with them I will practice Christianity. And I think that's perfectly fair.
Well that was my wacky story, I guess I pray for I dog instead for praying for stooping world hunger. I was a horrible person, but then again I was 15 and I was living in a Third world country already :P
I know logically religion is nothing more than a social construct to help maintain order in early civilizations. At it's best I see it's benefits as serving as a facilitator of community togetherness. At it's worst I see it embody the worse aspects of humanity. I don't question the tenants of science or evolution even though I know that the logical basisses that they're based on fly in the face of faith in God. Somehow I'm able to separate them in my mind and that's good enough for me. Good luck in finding your own path, in the end that's the best any of us can hope to do.
I have no problems with philosophy, spirituality, conjecture, etc... These are thought experiments, personal hunches, notions, whatever you want to call them. Our personal, solipsistic experiences cannot (as far as we know) be reconciled with one another, and such ideas are perfectly valid.
I take great issue, however, with religion. The moment someone makes a positive assertion, that assertion must be tested. In the case of counter evidence or a lack of evidence, the assertion must be discarded, or in the very least accepted as unproven and fallible.
To paraphrase what we said in the "Burden of Proof" episode, it can all be summed up as follows:
An ordinary assertion, being one that does not contradict extant bodies of research or evidence and does not require a leap of logic, can be accepted in the case of lack of evidence, as such acceptance requires nothing of the acceptor or world.
An extraordinary assertion, however, is a different matter entirely. An assertion is extraordinary if it contradicts known bodies of evidence, requires the existence of as-yet-unproven or unknown factors, or requires a clear leap in logic. No intelligent person can reasonably accept an extraordinary assertion without backing evidence: lack of evidence constitutes effective counter evidence.
EDIT: Or dress up like Jesus and have sex with a guy during a mass. Gotta keep it simple.
EDIT You're not. They just think you are. It really isn't worth the effort.