Catholic here, but since the Church as a governing body can suck and I'm pretty pissed at them right now, I might as well put knowledge of dogma to use. Pete would be right, that would work easily. Or you could go the fun-times route. Have the Goetic keys for the evocation of Asmodeus and Belial temporarily tattooed on your back, and declare your intent to call forth a Prince and King of Hell. They'll give you that form.
I just don't want to be associated with such a group of people.
"Such a group of people" still includes some good apples, yeah? ~_^
But apart from that, I have to do something blasphemous for the diocese to take it seriously.
I should point out that "blasphemy" under the church is as simple as saying "God is cruel and unjust," or "God does not exist." It really takes no effort.
"Such a group of people" still includes some good apples, yeah?
Yes, but to quote Steven Weinberg, "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil--that takes religion." Not that I think you have done evil. ~_^
In order to remove myself from their list I have to make a formal declaration of defection, which entails that I sign a form in front of a witness, and inform a family member of my intentions.
According to my (hasty) research, it doesn't seem that all that is necessary. Seems that it's pretty much down to just writing one letter.
Well, it doesn't mean you can't do some blasphemy for its own sake, and perhaps include a snapshot with the letter. But I don't think the "informing a family member" part is necessary.
Story time! I went to church on Easter. The mother-in-law begged and pleaded and whined and cajoled, and because I love her so very much Lisa and I made this one exception and accompanied her to her little cult. I partook of their donuts and coffee, and politely mocked them under my breath the entire time. It was 40 minutes of hell. I was itching to run down the aisle screaming about the Invisible Pink Unicorn but instead carefully kept my mouth shut. I was itching for a debate, but I even clamped down on my tongue when the pastor came over to shake my hand; he sensed I was not digging the vibe and told me not to worry, it would all be over soon.
But I got my mother-in-law back on the car ride home by asking her whether Jesus would have technically been a vampire or zombie.
What do you guys think of this situation? Is enduring the stupid little once-a-year ritual as an act of love for family acceptable?
Personally, I don't understand what the mother-in-law gets out of the deal. Does she really believe that the pastor/service is going to sway me away from atheism? She understands that I grew up as the son of a preacher (dad and I carefully avoid discussing religion out of respect for each other) and that I've heard every Christian line possible and rejected it. I think she just wants to show off her family to her friends, which is okay, I suppose.
I don't think you should force yourself. The only thing that bothers me more than Atheists who try and force us to change our opinions are the Christians who try and do the same thing to Atheists. I don't know if she's trying to change your or not, but I think forcing yourself to sit through a service you hate has only negative results.
Peace and love, I don't give a shit about who you do or don't pray to. I keep it to myself, if you ask I will talk and if you want comforting I will comfort. Why the world makes such an issue about this is quite beyond me.
Peace and love, I don't give a shit about who you do or don't pray to. I keep it to myself, if you ask I will talk and if you want comforting I will comfort. Why the world makes such an issue about this is quite beyond me.
Fucking this, man. If JR "Bob" Dobbs is your Lord and Savior and the world is a better place for it, who's anyone else to give a solitary fuck?
@Jason - That is your choice. I refuse in that type of situation as a show of respect to the very people and place I am choosing to avoid. I will not bring my different beliefs to a place that is set aside by those people to be a hallow (some would say hollow) place of worship.
@Dromaro-I completely agree with you. As a Christian, I feel bad for Atheists forced to religious services by family on Holidays, but I sorta dislike the fact that I can tell they're mocking the pastor under their breath.
@Dromaro-I completely agree with you. As a Christian, I feel bad for Atheists forced to religious services by family on Holidays, but I sorta dislike the fact that I can tell they're mocking the pastor under their breath.
1) Under their breath? 2) How are you so sure it is just atheists? Most pastors that I have met are nice, but stupid. 3) Would you rather they mock him/her openly?
@Dromaro-I completely agree with you. As a Christian, I feel bad for Atheists forced to religious services by family on Holidays, but I sorta dislike the fact that I can tell they're mocking the pastor under their breath.
1) Under their breath? 2) How are you so sure it is just atheists? Most pastors that I have met are nice, but stupid. 3) Would you rather they mock him/her openly?
I would rather they just not come. If they don't care about the religion or don't ascribe to it, they shouldn't be roped into going to the service, and it's just distracting I guess. I feel like there's a lot of people that are in this situation, especially on Holidays like Christmas and Easter, and the fact that they maybe don't advocate their beliefs bothers me.
Most of the services I have been to (Lutheran and Episcopalian, so not exactly hardcore) have had specific things you can do if you want to respectfully decline to participate. For instance, they request that if you do not wish to receive communion, you simply approach the altar with your line and cross your arms over your chest. They do not push the sacrament on you, but they wish to say a blessing for you. I don't give a damn if people want to pray for me, and I can respect their religious choice.
I chose to accompany my family to Church on Christmas one year because my mom really wanted me to go - the least I can do is be respectful of their beliefs. I'm invading their space, not the other way around. People who go out of their way to go to a group's gathering and then disrespect it piss me off. It's passive-aggressive bullshit, and I won't tolerate it.
The Lutheran Pastor I grew up with was also super smart. She was pretty awesome, although she really didn't like it when I kept asking, "If there was nothing before God, and God created everything, then where did God exist?" That was an interesting confirmation class.
@Dromaro-I completely agree with you. As a Christian, I feel bad for Atheists forced to religious services by family on Holidays, but I sorta dislike the fact that I can tell they're mocking the pastor under their breath.
1) Under their breath? 2) How are you so sure it is just atheists? Most pastors that I have met are nice, but stupid. 3) Would you rather they mock him/her openly?
I would rather they just not come.
I am sure they would, too. However, if they are going because of social or familial pressure, then cut them a friggin' break. They are in a hard situation. More importantly, isn't the church goin' crowd supposed to be open, welcoming, tolerant, accepting, understanding and forgiving? Extend that to those who are semi-forced into attending. If someone is causing a disruption or being rude, then obviously that is a problem. However, if they are keeping quiet and not causing a disturbance, then it seems like maybe you need to be less sensitive and focus on the sermon yourself.
@Dromaro-I completely agree with you. As a Christian, I feel bad for Atheists forced to religious services by family on Holidays, but I sorta dislike the fact that I can tell they're mocking the pastor under their breath.
1) Under their breath? 2) How are you so sure it is just atheists? Most pastors that I have met are nice, but stupid. 3) Would you rather they mock him/her openly?
I would rather they just not come.
I am sure they would, too. However, if they are going because of social or familial pressure, then cut them a friggin' break. They are in a hard situation. More importantly, isn't the church goin' crowd supposed to be open, welcoming, tolerant, accepting, understanding and forgiving? Extend that to those who are semi-forced into attending. If someone is causing a disruption or being rude, then obviously that is a problem. However, if they are keeping quiet and not causing a disturbance, then it seems like maybe you need to be less sensitive and focus on the sermon yourself.
Probably. I really do have more of a problem with the family forcing them to do it than them. It just always unnerves me at the holidays when I see so many people in the service and am able to see ones who are clearly not engaged or even interested.
You can forgive them?! Really? My attitude is this: How dare people come to an open place that welcomes them and desperately seeks their patronage, particularly on the most celebrated days of the year. Fuck those assholes for not worshiping or participating in the way one particular guy wants them to.
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I'm still pulling for summoning a demon, though.
Story time! I went to church on Easter. The mother-in-law begged and pleaded and whined and cajoled, and because I love her so very much Lisa and I made this one exception and accompanied her to her little cult. I partook of their donuts and coffee, and politely mocked them under my breath the entire time. It was 40 minutes of hell. I was itching to run down the aisle screaming about the Invisible Pink Unicorn but instead carefully kept my mouth shut. I was itching for a debate, but I even clamped down on my tongue when the pastor came over to shake my hand; he sensed I was not digging the vibe and told me not to worry, it would all be over soon.
But I got my mother-in-law back on the car ride home by asking her whether Jesus would have technically been a vampire or zombie.
What do you guys think of this situation? Is enduring the stupid little once-a-year ritual as an act of love for family acceptable?
Personally, I don't understand what the mother-in-law gets out of the deal. Does she really believe that the pastor/service is going to sway me away from atheism? She understands that I grew up as the son of a preacher (dad and I carefully avoid discussing religion out of respect for each other) and that I've heard every Christian line possible and rejected it. I think she just wants to show off her family to her friends, which is okay, I suppose.
2) How are you so sure it is just atheists? Most pastors that I have met are nice, but stupid.
3) Would you rather they mock him/her openly?
I chose to accompany my family to Church on Christmas one year because my mom really wanted me to go - the least I can do is be respectful of their beliefs. I'm invading their space, not the other way around. People who go out of their way to go to a group's gathering and then disrespect it piss me off. It's passive-aggressive bullshit, and I won't tolerate it.
The Lutheran Pastor I grew up with was also super smart. She was pretty awesome, although she really didn't like it when I kept asking, "If there was nothing before God, and God created everything, then where did God exist?" That was an interesting confirmation class.
EDIT: In order to allay allegations that this post is filled with anger, a smiley has been added. Have a nice day.
My attitude is this: How dare people come to an open place that welcomes them and desperately seeks their patronage, particularly on the most celebrated days of the year. Fuck those assholes for not worshiping or participating in the way one particular guy wants them to.
^_^