The first time I heard this song in recent years was before I knew of the whole Rick Rolling phenomenon. When I did hear it, I was like, "hey, it's that song I remember kinda liking when I was a kid back in the 80's." shrug
To discard Holden and Ford as merely bogan cars is a bit silly, really. Not only do you miss out on some of the most enjoyable cars in recent memory, they're not even really bogan cars anymore. You'll see more of them in the hands of business fleets, sales reps, executives and the like than bogans, nowadays, while actual bogans have shifted to cheap, secondhand Asian imports and enormous 4X4s.
To discard Holden and Ford as merely bogan cars is a bit silly, really. Not only do you miss out on some of the most enjoyable cars in recent memory, they're not even really bogan cars anymore. You'll see more of them in the hands of business fleets, sales reps, executives and the like than bogans, nowadays, while actual bogans have shifted to cheap, secondhand Asian imports and enormous 4X4s.
I'm not discounting all Ford and Holden cars just the poorly designed, overpriced Commodores and Falcons. My Dad has owned 2 generations of Falcons so it's not like haven't driven any.
These models have always been in the hands of business fleets as a source of revenue and advertising. My bogan aquaintances in the western suburbs of Sydney were tunnel vision on getting the biggest volume engine with the most cylinders and discounted everything that was under a V8 or wasn't a Falcon or Commodore.
The companies discounted engineering an overall sophisticated car and engine for one that appealed to the afore mentioned population. Leaving the designing of modern cars to their European counterparts who end up designing good cars. (e.g. Ford Mondeo, Focus) as they would be competing against European companies.
When I lived close to Parramatta in Western Sydney and the eastern suburbs in Melbourne, It was hilarious lining up against a new model SS, Malooo Ute, Ford FG etc. at the lights (me in a 1995 manual 4 cylinder Toyota Camry), them revving their engines and then losing in a short acceleration as they didn't know how to accelerate optimally or they were in automatics. The most fun would be for me would be to immediately slow down to the speed limit and see them zoom past into speed cameras (as I would never win in a straight).
I have not been privy to the shift of bogan preferences since I moved from the eastern Melbourne to Carlton in 2009.
Regardless I would much rather see a race where the term "supercar" meant something. If you really want a v8 battle why not allow Nissan GTR, BMW M5/M6, Mercedes SLS AMG Black. Hell why not let them un-neuter the Mercedes E63 cars that are already in there, they've basically been modified down "to be on an even field with Holden and Ford". The poor showing is probably why Mercedes will be pulling the cars from the circuit.
The reason that the muscle cars from other parts of the world aren't allowed into the races is because they are so much more efficient that they would leave them in their dust and the Aussie supercar scene doesn't want to see that.
If you really want a v8 battle why not allow Nissan GTR, BMW M5/M6, Mercedes SLS AMG Black. Hell why not let them un-neuter the Mercedes E63 cars that are already in there, they've basically been modified down "to be on an even field with Holden and Ford". The poor showing is probably why Mercedes will be pulling the cars from the circuit.
Er, because the GTR is a six cylinder, The M5 and M6 are not naturally aspirated, and an SLS AMG bone-stock costs more than any car allowed in the series AFTER MODIFICATION by about double. You can build a V8 supercar for half the price of buying an SLS AMG. And note, I'm not talking about the black edition - because they don't sell it anymore, so it's not eligible anyway.
And why not let them Un-neuter the E63? For the same reason they don't let them Un-neuter(De-neuter?) the Falcon and let them use the Boss 6.2L V8, same reason they don't let them Un-neuter the Commodore and let them use the 6.2L LS3 V8, same reason they limit the cars down to a certain build price. It's about leveling the field so that it's a case of "who is the better driver with the best mechanics", rather than "which company has the most money to build an absurd car." The restrictions apply to everyone, not just overseas competitors.
The reason that the muscle cars from other parts of the world aren't allowed into the races is because they are so much more efficient that they would leave them in their dust and the Aussie supercar scene doesn't want to see that.
Basically no chance. For example, if we allowed a un-nutered E63 against an un-nutered Commodore, with the same other modifications allowed to steering, brakes and so on? The E63 as it stands has an equal chance, in the race with the restrictions removed? Might as well have stayed home.
Edit - They do have us beat in one important area, though. Looks. Our muscle cars of late often look like either something that a mid-level executive would drive, or they look like someone with enough money for sporty body kits got a hold of something a mid-level executive would drive. Compare that to something like the Equus Bass 770, and it's no contest for pretty. Though admittedly the Bass 770 does cost 250 grand. And that's not the Australian price, that's just what they cost.
Adding superchargers and turbochargers are better for the environment, it would reduce the carbon footprint :^). It's like making a race and asking for all the shittiest designed engines only. Might as well restrict it to pedal power.
SLS AMG bone-stock costs more than any car allowed in the series AFTER MODIFICATION by about double.
Well it is a muscle car and I assume the the V8 Supercars is a muscle car race based in Australia, I didn't know there was a price cap on what was allowed. Wonder if they should include that in the Melbourne Cup and make sure that each racer can only spend a certain amount of money on breeding towards a race participant.
And why not let them Un-neuter the E63? For the same reason they don't let them Un-neuter(De-neuter?) the Falcon and let them use the Boss 6.2L V8, same reason they don't let them Un-neuter the Commodore and let them use the 6.2L LS3 V8.
This would be great because it would show off how shitty these cars are in turns, you already saw that in the race above with the Commodore sliding around the corner and the Volvo holding the turning line because it has superior suspension.
I am all for testing driving skill but at least give the drivers some tools which allow them to show off what they can accomplish in modern designed cars. Why not come out and say we are restricting all car technology to before 1920 (non naturally aspirated mass production car) level technology to find out the best drivers.
The restrictions apply to everyone, not just overseas competitors.
I though only Australian car companies entered this. Didn't know there were international teams.
I would still love to see that Commodore vs E63 or any other muscle car race on a track with turns. I would watch the shit out of that but settle for not watching the V8s.
Then I don't get why you have all these super modified cars with the 6.2 litre boss engines. Are they being sold as status symbols or are they actually track cars
I think it comes back to the same argument with all racing car competitions. Do we watch for the drivers or the engineering teams?
I though only Australian car companies entered this. Didn't know there were international teams.
Volvo and Nissan both have entries(Volvo working with a Local team(I think it's Garry Rodger's team for drivers). The E63s are run by whatever Stone brothers are calling themselves now, so that doesn't count as international.
Adding superchargers and turbochargers are better for the environment, it would reduce the carbon footprint :^). It's like making a race and asking for all the shittiest designed engines only. Might as well restrict it to pedal power.
As an aside, my first thought was "Damn, that sounds like something Scott would say." But anyway, No. That's just stupid. The answer to "This car does not meet the requirements" is not "Well the requirements and dumb and everything that meets them is shitty."
Yet it would still destroy them on the track because it is made for corners.
Yeah, no. Super no. The answer to "This car cannot enter this V8 race, because it's a straight 6" is not "Yeah well it would destroy them in the corners" it is "Oh, sorry, I was two short." And No, it probably wouldn't(remember - RWD only, and it has to comply to the same suspension regs as everyone else), and even if it did, then the small amount of time they gained in the corners would still fail to catch up to the time they lose on the straights. You have to race the whole track, not just the corners.
Well it is a muscle car and I assume the the V8 Supercars is a muscle car race based in Australia
Surprisingly not, on the first count. A Muscle car and a GT car are not the same thing. And half wrong on the second, it's not a muscle car race, it's a touring car race.
This would be great because it would show off how shitty these cars are in turns, you already saw that in the race above with the Commodore sliding around the corner and the Volvo holding the turning line because it has superior suspension.
I literally laughed out loud. You seriously don't know what you're talking about. First of all, no, they're not shitty in turns compared to the other cars in the class, even on the stock models, let alone heavily modified racing cars. Second, did you miss A)that not ten seconds before, the Holden passed the Volvo on the inside, and B)That the Volvo was beaten by a very significant margin by a different Holden?
You also didn't notice that right before the Volvo turns in, the gap between the Volvo and the Holden widens briefly as Mclaughlin slows, as well as the line Whincup is taking through the corner - Basically, Jamie Whincup came in too hot and pulled it through a fraction too late. If he'd have slowed off and turned in slightly earlier, he'd have taken second, not third. It was a driver error that lost second place, not an inferior vehicle.
But all of that's a moot point, really. I can tell you with absolute and total confidence that it was not because of the Volvo's superior suspension - because they've both got the same double-wishbone-and-live-rear setup. It's not superior, because it's the fucking same.
I am all for testing driving skill but at least give the drivers some tools which allow them to show off what they can accomplish in modern designed cars. Why not come out and say we are restricting all car technology to before 1920 (non naturally aspirated mass production car) level technology to find out the best drivers.
Wat. This is complete fucking nonsense. If you want to try and tell me that they're not pushing modern designed cars to their limits, then you're a fucking lunatic. The amount of research, technology and design that goes into ONE of these cars, just for the start of ONE season is incredible, thousands upon thousands of man-hours.
I would still love to see that Commodore vs E63 or any other muscle car race on a track with turns.
I imagine you would, since you seem to be laboring under assumptions that simply aren't true in passenger cars and haven't been for YEARS, let alone heavily modified racing cars. And I'd like to watch you watching it, when things don't turn out the way you expect.
Then I don't get why you have all these super modified cars with the 6.2 litre boss engines. Are they being sold as status symbols or are they actually track cars
Same reason they sell more Lamborghinis and Ferraris to the general public than have ever raced on a track, I suppose. But I don't know which super modified cars with 6.2 litre engines you're talking about, is it a race series, or do you mean the ones sold to the public?
I think it comes back to the same argument with all racing car competitions. Do we watch for the drivers or the engineering teams?
That depends, I suppose, on what kind of race you're watching. Races like the F1 and the V8 supercars, you watch for the drivers, because they are series with an even playing field by design, meant to showcase skill in driving over skill in engineering, despite the fact that both have enormously talented engineers behind them. Races like Group B rally, NASCAR, Drag racing, DARPA Challenge, and so on, that's about engineering more than driving. Though I guess in the latter case, the two are practically indistinguishable.
Comments
My body is ready.
New Up-and-comer Scott Mclaughlin battles it out with five-time champion Jamie Whincup in the final leg.
On further inspection, just found that they are limiting the car pool to inefficient engines.
Good driving by the Volvo S60 driver however made Whincup cry.
These models have always been in the hands of business fleets as a source of revenue and advertising.
My bogan aquaintances in the western suburbs of Sydney were tunnel vision on getting the biggest volume engine with the most cylinders and discounted everything that was under a V8 or wasn't a Falcon or Commodore.
The companies discounted engineering an overall sophisticated car and engine for one that appealed to the afore mentioned population. Leaving the designing of modern cars to their European counterparts who end up designing good cars. (e.g. Ford Mondeo, Focus) as they would be competing against European companies.
When I lived close to Parramatta in Western Sydney and the eastern suburbs in Melbourne, It was hilarious lining up against a new model SS, Malooo Ute, Ford FG etc. at the lights (me in a 1995 manual 4 cylinder Toyota Camry), them revving their engines and then losing in a short acceleration as they didn't know how to accelerate optimally or they were in automatics. The most fun would be for me would be to immediately slow down to the speed limit and see them zoom past into speed cameras (as I would never win in a straight).
I have not been privy to the shift of bogan preferences since I moved from the eastern Melbourne to Carlton in 2009.
Regardless I would much rather see a race where the term "supercar" meant something. If you really want a v8 battle why not allow Nissan GTR, BMW M5/M6, Mercedes SLS AMG Black. Hell why not let them un-neuter the Mercedes E63 cars that are already in there, they've basically been modified down "to be on an even field with Holden and Ford". The poor showing is probably why Mercedes will be pulling the cars from the circuit.
The reason that the muscle cars from other parts of the world aren't allowed into the races is because they are so much more efficient that they would leave them in their dust and the Aussie supercar scene doesn't want to see that.
And why not let them Un-neuter the E63? For the same reason they don't let them Un-neuter(De-neuter?) the Falcon and let them use the Boss 6.2L V8, same reason they don't let them Un-neuter the Commodore and let them use the 6.2L LS3 V8, same reason they limit the cars down to a certain build price. It's about leveling the field so that it's a case of "who is the better driver with the best mechanics", rather than "which company has the most money to build an absurd car." The restrictions apply to everyone, not just overseas competitors. Basically no chance. For example, if we allowed a un-nutered E63 against an un-nutered Commodore, with the same other modifications allowed to steering, brakes and so on? The E63 as it stands has an equal chance, in the race with the restrictions removed? Might as well have stayed home.
Edit - They do have us beat in one important area, though. Looks. Our muscle cars of late often look like either something that a mid-level executive would drive, or they look like someone with enough money for sporty body kits got a hold of something a mid-level executive would drive. Compare that to something like the Equus Bass 770, and it's no contest for pretty. Though admittedly the Bass 770 does cost 250 grand. And that's not the Australian price, that's just what they cost.
I am all for testing driving skill but at least give the drivers some tools which allow them to show off what they can accomplish in modern designed cars.
Why not come out and say we are restricting all car technology to before 1920 (non naturally aspirated mass production car) level technology to find out the best drivers. I though only Australian car companies entered this. Didn't know there were international teams.
I would still love to see that Commodore vs E63 or any other muscle car race on a track with turns. I would watch the shit out of that but settle for not watching the V8s.
Then I don't get why you have all these super modified cars with the 6.2 litre boss engines. Are they being sold as status symbols or are they actually track cars
I think it comes back to the same argument with all racing car competitions. Do we watch for the drivers or the engineering teams?
You also didn't notice that right before the Volvo turns in, the gap between the Volvo and the Holden widens briefly as Mclaughlin slows, as well as the line Whincup is taking through the corner - Basically, Jamie Whincup came in too hot and pulled it through a fraction too late. If he'd have slowed off and turned in slightly earlier, he'd have taken second, not third. It was a driver error that lost second place, not an inferior vehicle.
But all of that's a moot point, really. I can tell you with absolute and total confidence that it was not because of the Volvo's superior suspension - because they've both got the same double-wishbone-and-live-rear setup. It's not superior, because it's the fucking same. Wat. This is complete fucking nonsense. If you want to try and tell me that they're not pushing modern designed cars to their limits, then you're a fucking lunatic. The amount of research, technology and design that goes into ONE of these cars, just for the start of ONE season is incredible, thousands upon thousands of man-hours. I imagine you would, since you seem to be laboring under assumptions that simply aren't true in passenger cars and haven't been for YEARS, let alone heavily modified racing cars. And I'd like to watch you watching it, when things don't turn out the way you expect. Same reason they sell more Lamborghinis and Ferraris to the general public than have ever raced on a track, I suppose. But I don't know which super modified cars with 6.2 litre engines you're talking about, is it a race series, or do you mean the ones sold to the public? That depends, I suppose, on what kind of race you're watching. Races like the F1 and the V8 supercars, you watch for the drivers, because they are series with an even playing field by design, meant to showcase skill in driving over skill in engineering, despite the fact that both have enormously talented engineers behind them. Races like Group B rally, NASCAR, Drag racing, DARPA Challenge, and so on, that's about engineering more than driving. Though I guess in the latter case, the two are practically indistinguishable.
And when I thought they'd just stopped doing it altogether...
O_O
(stupid spam filter...)