I did not ignore the links about a secular system of ethics. I have read more, and heard more debating this topic than wikipedia presents. Wasn't large part of the South American system of ethics sacrificing huge numbers of people? I've not studied a huge amount of Chinese history but I don't think they placed such a high value on life, actually I might conjecture that they still don't. Germany about 75 years ago also doesn't say so much for secular humanism.
This is called a straw-man argument. Are you seriously going to tell me that every nation or civilization that has declared it's self Christian (and believes in christian morality) has not condoned and done horrible things? I said that morality and ethics can develop and evolve without the bible I did not say that they would appear to be the same set of morals as the bible teaches. If you want to play this game, I would argue that being gay and sex before marriage are moral things to do or at the very least are not "sinful". While the Bible is pretty clear these are. The bible doesn't even give us guidance on many moral issues that effect us today.
We just have to look at the middle ages to see the problems with "christian" morality.
Bty: Germany during that time period had nothing to do with secular humanism and there is a lot of evidence that Hitler on some level believed in the bible.
In the old Testament God helped his people live according to the law. Yes they were also punished for not following the law. Joshua was leading God's chosen people back into their land that they were removed from by the Egyptians. Actually famine was as much to blame for them leaving Israel a the Egyptians. When they got to Egypt they were enslaved and not allowed to return home. God lead His people back to their land, the land they were kept from. He assisted them in reclaiming that land. In order to protect His people and keep them from sin he helped them clear the pagans from Israel.
Lets rewrite this event:
In the old Testament God helped his people live according to the law that was both strict and cruel. Yes they were also punished for not following the law, a law that limited freedom and pretty much treated women as second class life forms. Joshua was leading his people back into their land that they were removed from by the Egyptians. Actually famine was as much to blame for them leaving Israel as the Egyptians which for some reason God inflicted upon them. When they got to Egypt they were enslaved and not allowed to return home. Joshua lead His people back to their land, the land they were kept from that god up until this point was preventing them from getting back to. He assisted them in reclaiming that land that he for some reason made them leave. In order to protect His people and keep them from sin he helped them clear the pagans from Israel (I.E. Killed them all bloody).
We are kinda getting off track. Existence or non existence of God is based on faith. If you believe that from chaos everything sprang to existence. It aligned in such a way as to produce sentient life, and to extend secular humanism and evolution would mean that at some point we would become nearly perfect or perfect beings. To me that seems the harder faith to follow. Agnostic is the easy one, there is no faith just the idea that there may or may not be a higher power, and plant yourself firmly on the fence of doubt.
Sorry you talk as if the bible has been around forever but there are religions that predate the bible. Check this out
Every religion on earth has a well known secular origin. Every single one.
Not that I'm arguing against the concept of religion having secular origins here, or even disagree with it (honestly, any truly religious beliefs I hold at this point are for my own entertainment more than anything else), but well known secular origins would only apply to your Buddhisms and your Christianities and your Rastafarianisms; the details on the specific secular origins of your Judaisms and Hinduisms are a lot murkier, if only because it most likely wasn't just "one guy inventing x religion" as seems to be favored in this debate (in the same way that, say, no one person started the American Revolution or the European Renaissance).
Rym & Scott - It sounds like you two have turned into Niles & Fraiser Crane, while your friends are all still Comic Book Guy. Do not be baffled that store-brand Doritos are a major food group. Do not be affronted when they show no appreciation for your canapes. Try to remember a time when cash spent on name-brand soda was cash taken away from your geekly vices.
That isn't to say don't lock your glasses away, and don't stash your various overpriced foodstuffs out of easy reach. Just try to remember a time when glasses were just containers to put sweetened caffeine in, and food was whatever was in arm's reach, because anything more complicated would take time away from The Gaming. Practice cultural sensitivity. :P This is what prevents you from turning into indignant fat ladies.
Rym & Scott - It sounds like you two have turned into Niles & Fraiser Crane, while your friends are all still Comic Book Guy. Do not be baffled that store-brand Doritos are a major food group. Do not be affronted when they show no appreciation for your canapes. Try to remember a time when cash spent on name-brand soda was cash taken away from your geekly vices.
That isn't to say don't lock your glasses away, and don't stash your various overpriced foodstuffs out of easy reach. Just try to remember a time when glasses were just containers to put sweetened caffeine in, and food was whatever was in arm's reach, because anything more complicated would take time away from The Gaming. Practice cultural sensitivity. :P This is what prevents you from turning into indignant fat ladies.
Rym & Scott - It sounds like you two have turned into Niles & Fraiser Crane, while your friends are all still Comic Book Guy. Do not be baffled that store-brand Doritos are a major food group. Do not be affronted when they show no appreciation for your canapes. Try to remember a time when cash spent on name-brand soda was cash taken away from your geekly vices.
That isn't to say don't lock your glasses away, and don't stash your various overpriced foodstuffs out of easy reach. Just try to remember a time when glasses were just containers to put sweetened caffeine in, and food was whatever was in arm's reach, because anything more complicated would take time away from The Gaming. Practice cultural sensitivity. :P This is what prevents you from turning into indignant fat ladies.
I guess this goes well with the whole post>
When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I no longer used childish ways.
Now that we have grown up and earn a salary, we can put away all those bad things we ate and drank and enjoy the "better" things in life now that we can afford them without sacrificing our geeky vices.
Now that we have grown up and earn a salary, we can put away all those bad things we ate and drank and enjoy the "better" things in life now that we can afford them without sacrificing our geeky vices.
I can't wait till that time in my life....ahhh. For now it's the Bodega food group for me until college is done.
When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I no longer used childish ways.
Now that we have grown up and earn a salary, we can put away all those bad things we ate and drank and enjoy the "better" things in life now that we can afford them without sacrificing our geeky vices.
That would go against the Geek Code. :P If you look at the history of geek culture, one thing that pops up again and again is that geeks stubbornly cling to things which are considered socially inappropriate for people of their age or standing, and spend the rest of their lives doing their best to show that those things have merit, despite the social stigma they receive for bucking the norm.
Even though it may go against the "Geek Code", my stomach can not take bad foods I used to eat when I was barely getting by. Plus eating better foods will increase your chances of perhaps living longer so you can enjoy your life as a geek longer and in good health!
On another note, to Scrym:
How was the visits of the Visigoths this weekend? Were you able to pass off the hobo wine? Did they listen to the podcast?
As one of the group of people that regularly visits Rym and Scott's place, and have the same group of people at my house occasionally, I can say that not ALL of us are "Visigoths". However, here are some things that should be commonly done when spending the weekend with friends:
1) Clean up your messes as they are made (some people wait until the end of the weekend to clean, and then they do a quick, half-assed job).
2) Admit to things you broke right away. When you have a lot of people over, stuff will be damaged, but at least tell your host(s) immediately and offer to fix/replace it if possible.
3) Keep your stuff in one place, preferably in a suitcase out of the way. If you take stuff out and use it, put it back when you are finished.
4) Bedding can stink. Make sure you bring clean, freshly washed bedding and towels to a weekend long party.
5) Try and do at least one task a day that cleans up a common mess (i.e. take out the garbage, wipe down a table, do a sink of dishes, sweep the floor).
6) Bring food/drink of some kind to share. It is just common courtesy.
Scott - Why would you buy $10 cookies???That's what I was thinking too. The best way to keep your friends from eating your $10 cookies is not to buy $10 cookies. If that's not an option, that "hide them in the closet" idea sounds pretty good.
Regarding the Terror Watch List, it doesn't surprise me that it's getting so big. Suspicious behavior involves things like going to primarily Muslim countries for activity other than work - at least I strongly suspect that and have some anecdotal evidence for it. My cousin in law and her husband went to Morocco a couple years back to live there for a period of about 6-8 months. They didn't go for work or vacation but to actually live there like Moroccans.
After they came back to the states, they found that there would always be mysterious delays (more than the normal technical delays) whenever they traveled. It didn't matter if they took the red eye or left in the middle of the day, there was always a delay. They had mentioned it was notable to them because they were accustomed to air travel, and they had never had such consistent delays before they went to Morocco. The funny thing is this: they're Quakers.
My wife buys some really expensive Chi Tea, well compared to the crap you get off the shelf at Wal-Mart, and you know what? It's really good, so much better than the other stuff that it really negates the price. We have tried using the cheap teas to recreate the good stuff. We can get kinda close, but with the expensive stuff you just dump in hot water and you are done.
I have a theory on guests. You know how your stuff works. You know if you open this door you have to be careful of x happening. The stop on this drawer is broken, you know not to pull it out to far. If you sit in this chair the recliner works this way. Your house guests don't know that, and stuff gets broken. Our basement has a stained concrete floor. It looks really nice but I wanted carpet. After entertaining a few time, I decided that concrete is awesome. It won't break, or stain, and you can use pretty much anything to clean it.
We have wine tastings a lot and once we have a hidden-bottle wine tasting. Everyone brings their bottle in a bag (like w wine bag) and we drink it without looking at the bottle at all. We filled out cards so we'd have to try to figure out the grapes, location, year (yeah right) and describe the usual aspects of the wine. We'd rate them all and then, unveil the bottles.
It was always interesting who knew the difference and who didn't. I highly recommend it. I know a few "wine drinkers" that voted awfully high on the bum wine.
Comments
We just have to look at the middle ages to see the problems with "christian" morality.
Bty: Germany during that time period had nothing to do with secular humanism and there is a lot of evidence that Hitler on some level believed in the bible.
Lets rewrite this event:
In the old Testament God helped his people live according to the law that was both strict and cruel. Yes they were also punished for not following the law, a law that limited freedom and pretty much treated women as second class life forms. Joshua was leading his people back into their land that they were removed from by the Egyptians. Actually famine was as much to blame for them leaving Israel as the Egyptians which for some reason God inflicted upon them. When they got to Egypt they were enslaved and not allowed to return home. Joshua lead His people back to their land, the land they were kept from that god up until this point was preventing them from getting back to. He assisted them in reclaiming that land that he for some reason made them leave. In order to protect His people and keep them from sin he helped them clear the pagans from Israel (I.E. Killed them all bloody). Sorry you talk as if the bible has been around forever but there are religions that predate the bible. Check this out
Rym & Scott - It sounds like you two have turned into Niles & Fraiser Crane, while your friends are all still Comic Book Guy.
That isn't to say don't lock your glasses away, and don't stash your various overpriced foodstuffs out of easy reach. Just try to remember a time when glasses were just containers to put sweetened caffeine in, and food was whatever was in arm's reach, because anything more complicated would take time away from The Gaming.
On another note, to Scrym:
How was the visits of the Visigoths this weekend? Were you able to pass off the hobo wine? Did they listen to the podcast?
1) Clean up your messes as they are made (some people wait until the end of the weekend to clean, and then they do a quick, half-assed job).
2) Admit to things you broke right away. When you have a lot of people over, stuff will be damaged, but at least tell your host(s) immediately and offer to fix/replace it if possible.
3) Keep your stuff in one place, preferably in a suitcase out of the way. If you take stuff out and use it, put it back when you are finished.
4) Bedding can stink. Make sure you bring clean, freshly washed bedding and towels to a weekend long party.
5) Try and do at least one task a day that cleans up a common mess (i.e. take out the garbage, wipe down a table, do a sink of dishes, sweep the floor).
6) Bring food/drink of some kind to share. It is just common courtesy.
After they came back to the states, they found that there would always be mysterious delays (more than the normal technical delays) whenever they traveled. It didn't matter if they took the red eye or left in the middle of the day, there was always a delay. They had mentioned it was notable to them because they were accustomed to air travel, and they had never had such consistent delays before they went to Morocco. The funny thing is this: they're Quakers.
My wife buys some really expensive Chi Tea, well compared to the crap you get off the shelf at Wal-Mart, and you know what? It's really good, so much better than the other stuff that it really negates the price. We have tried using the cheap teas to recreate the good stuff. We can get kinda close, but with the expensive stuff you just dump in hot water and you are done.
I have a theory on guests. You know how your stuff works. You know if you open this door you have to be careful of x happening. The stop on this drawer is broken, you know not to pull it out to far. If you sit in this chair the recliner works this way. Your house guests don't know that, and stuff gets broken. Our basement has a stained concrete floor. It looks really nice but I wanted carpet. After entertaining a few time, I decided that concrete is awesome. It won't break, or stain, and you can use pretty much anything to clean it.
It was always interesting who knew the difference and who didn't. I highly recommend it. I know a few "wine drinkers" that voted awfully high on the bum wine.