I can usually take down a heavy kind of easily, you have to be at point blank range with enough room to circle strafe. The trick with Pyros is not to try and kill people but to just set a whole bunch of people on fire then run for it as you deal an extra 50 damage while they are on fire which makes them easier to kill later on by one of your team mates. I might do another of my TF2 tactics things if audacity actually worked.
Nice video, yeah it would be better with a voice tutorial rather then text especially when it covered half the screen. I must say that most of the sernarios in that video are best case and not aways reflective of what really happens especially the cap points where the enemy so happen not to realise that there is an opening behind them (the way in which they came in, espeially on cap B gravel pit). Hey at least now with the update the Pyro Hadouken taunt is a one hit kill.
After playing a little last night the air blast is pretty awesome. It can be a little tricky to time at first. Generally though it's not useful in killing the guy with his own rocket/grenade unless they are pretty close to you. From what I can tell things still seem pretty balanced. The flare gun I was concerned with maybe being too good (haven't gotten it yet,) but its pretty slow and easy to dodge from the look of it.
chaos: It ain't my video but I could do similar if I had enough power to run Fraps without slowing down too much. The air blast uses 25 ammo so thats 8 shots from full ammo (Pyro does have 200 ammo right?). The Backburner seems very hit and miss with the back crits (think along the lines of the back-stab's reliability) but on the server with mostly Pyro's on it last night some people had worked out that two Pyros, one with the flamethrower and the other with the Axetinguisher can kick ass. That said, two Pyros are deadly enough.
From everything I've watched, these little improvements to the game could turn it around. It will never be a "hardcore" CTF FPS but, like I've said, that sort of FPS is probably not viable in the modern gaming world.
I really want to play with them. I really want to see where the game goes when every class has their own set of tactical and strategic loadout options. Sadly, much like with WoW, I'm not willing to waste my time leveling just so I can play the actual game.
Sadly, much like with WoW, I'm not willing to waste my time leveling just so I can play the actual game.
I don't like the leveling analogy for the achievements. It is a bit of a time sink much like leveling is, but the game doesn't "start at level 60." You can still enjoy the game, and play it just as well as anyone without the additional load outs. The load outs just provide more options.
Yeah Rym's kind of right, although you can still play just as well with the base set and own noobs, the enjoyment is really obtained through the "more options". Oh man I love the force push and flare gun. Advice: if you want a proper game then wait a week until all the pyro madness has cool off as at the moment, just like when the medic upgrades first came out, there is just mad pyro vs pyro burning action (for achievements) and not much else.
I got the flare gun... and I'm probably going to not use it that often. It's really slow to reload. It has it's uses, and kept igniting a sniper from across a map, but I think the shotgun is probably the superior of the two.
I got the flare gun... and I'm probably going to not use it that often. It's really slow to reload. It has it's uses, and kept igniting a sniper from across a map, but I think the shotgun is probably the superior of the two.
True dat. Also, while the Flare gun is required for one achievement (which is really hard to get), it blocks off a few others.
I'm currently trying to make my way up to the Backburner since it seems that whenever two Pyros face each other, the one with the Backburner is winning simply for the health bonus. On the other hand the air blast is very entertaining and useful, not just to deflect rocket but also for example to split UberMedics from their patients.
And in general I would like to say that the game is still very entertaining to me, but I can see players not liking it when they want to be smug about it and only want to show of their skill at FPSs.
Turns out the Pyro is female. It is still a bit disconcerting to be set on fire then look around to see no-one there. I like cp-Fastlane but I'm not sure if they've fixed the problem with turbine where two engineers get up on top of one of the containers.
On the other hand the air blast is very entertaining and useful, not just to deflect rocket but also for example to split UberMedics from their patients.
It also saves cap points from uber runs especially on running heavy, you don't even need to split them up push them bpth backwards until the uber has gone.
If you are looking for one on one vs against other pyros then the backburner is for you, however if you are more into supporting the team and sentaries and you have some skill with the air push then the basic weapon is just right (even coming up against pyro with the backburner the air push at the right time and angle changes their angle also screwing them up and its then another easy kill).
I think that even without having used the backburner yet, I see no real reason to. The standard now with the air blast is awesome. I have so much fun annoying demos and soldiers. Whenever I see a soldier now I just stand where I am and wait for him to shoot at me.
They've really made the pyro into the engineers best friend. Not only can you reveal spies, but you can knock explosives away from buildings.
They've really made the pyro into the engineers best friend. Not only can you reveal spies, but you can knock explosives away from buildings.
Indeed. For me also a very good strategy is to have a few engineers put up a few hard to reach sentries. As long as Pyro Fortress two is running, there will be enough fodder for them. Then you only have to have a few of your own pyros ready to ambush impending disaster in form of Soldiers or Demomen. That is another use for the air blast to knock hiding enemies into the field of view of a friendly sentry.
I just got the Backburner. I will toy a little bit more with it tomorrow. I think both have their ups and downs, but the Backburner is probably better for ambushing (automatic critical hits on attacks from behind + 50 health points to survive longer) and in Pyro on Pyro. I think on the defense the regular one is better.
The suckitude is inherent in the fundamental characteristics of the genre. Even though WoW is the best MMORPG ever created, it can't be good because it's still an MMORPG. It's impossible to make a good MMORPG, because you would have to change it so much that it would no longer be an MMORPG.
Oh mans. I just imagined a massively multiplayer version of Burning Wheel in a persistent, online world. That is what I think of when you say MMORPG. Sadly, there are still no games like this.
As for TF2, I think they should either buff the standard equipment and allow players to choose which they want to use (and have alternates for every class), or stop these ad-hoc "improvements." TF2 was a fun "slow fps," and I fear it may be traveling fast down the Tribes 2 road.
I think I figured something out. I've come to the conclusion that TF2 would be a lot more fun for most people if everything were unlocked to begin with. But since I play the game a lot I like the achievement unlocking system since it adds an extra element to the game while I'm playing it. Its not really an incentive to play, but it just adds another level to the game while I'm playing it normally, and I like that.
Valve still knows what they are doing. They just lowered the requirements to get the unlockable weapons for the medic to match those of the Pyro to restrain farming a little bit.
So far I have come to the conclusion that the unlockable weapons are pretty balanced compared to what weapons they are replacing. They basically only give additional options for specific situations. For example, the Flare Gun is good on open maps like Gravel Pit, but bad in close combat maps or maps with water on them, 2fort being the prime example. In those situations the shotgun is superior. The opposite is true for the Backburner and the Air Blast Flamethrower, where the air blast is very handy on Control Point maps and in the open when facing a soldier but the Backburner is better in close combat and ambush situations.
For the achievements I think Valve struck a good balance with easy achievements, hard achievements and achievements that take a lot of time. If you know what you are doing you easily get into possession of the upgrades without necessarily farming for them. I'd say TF2 is a better game for them as they provide entertainment and positive reinforcement.
I'd say TF2 is a better game for them as they provide entertainment and positive reinforcement.
They're only doing this to bolster a flagging product. TF2, as far as I can tell, is losing players a little faster than it's gaining them. Adding leveling is a trick to keep existing players playing longer: nothing more.
So far I have come to the conclusion that the unlockable weapons are pretty balanced compared to what weapons they are replacing. They basically only give additional options for specific situations.
You people don't understand. If someone has additional options than any other player, the game is inherently unbalanced.
How is this different from Call of Duty 4? Does who have spend more time with it certainly have more options than someone who just started playing.
What does CoD4 have anything to do with it?
Nothing, I was trying to think of another fps with unlockable content. It's just that I don't see the unbalance here. Having different options, calls for more strategy. If someone spent hours and hours of their time to unlock whatever super-gun, it does not give him/her the absolute advantage. It just calls for more skill and resourcefulness from other players.
Having different options, calls for more strategy. If someone spent hours and hours of their time to unlock whatever super-gun, it does not give him/her the absolute advantage. It just calls for more skill and resourcefulness from other players.
See, you are admitting that there is a disadvantage for players who do not play the game for thirty hours every week. The game should be a complete and level playing field.
The game should be a complete and level playing field.
You do realize that this is your personal opinion and in a class based FPS this is never true. It's overall true if the game is correctly balanced, but certain classes have advantages in different situations anyway. Going further, in any game the player who plays it more will have an advantage because of experience and training.
The additional weapons are not a must and are not absolute. A player with more skill on FPSes without the unlocks will still kill a noob with the unlocks in this game because the additional weapons are balanced to the previous ones. It still takes experience and skill to use them correctly and to choose what weapon when.
The "leveling" in TF2 is miniscule and easily achieved. The threshold when the game is equal to the majority players again will be reached shortly, if it hasn't already. Pyros still don't stand up against good snipers or well played soldiers or demomen and heavies are still a major problem to them.
All the negativity you guys are sending the game are solely based on prejudice and assumption. Valve knows what they are doing. They have created some of the best games in history. TF2 may not be a fantastic game, but is a very good and very entertaining one, and they are not going to blow that away this easily. If you don't like it just don't play it.
Not true. Different classes are fine. However if players have different abilities in the same classes based upon some arbitrary action then they are no longer balanced.
Going further, in any game the player who plays it more will have an advantage because of experience and training.
This is different from having multiple options available to you. The game is testing these skills and you want a level playing field in order to make sure that the outcome has not been affected by any outside influence.
The additional weapons are not a must and are not absolute. A player with more skill on FPSes without the unlocks will still kill a noob with the unlocks in this game because the additional weapons are balanced to the previous ones. It still takes experience and skill to use them correctly and to choose what weapon when.
Their mere existence creates an uneven playing field because some players will have the option while others will not. The basis of this discrepancy is not skill or talent but a mere grinding placed by the developers to get more people to play their game. Also, how would I learn how to play effectively with all the weapons when I don't have access to them?
The "leveling" in TF2 is miniscule and easily achieved.
Then why is it there in the first place? If people have to create specific maps in order to grind them out, this is not a game I want to play nor that I consider quality.
The threshold when the game is equal to the majority players again will be reached shortly, if it hasn't already.
The game should be equal all the time, to all the players. I'm going to go home tonight and play a couple rounds just to see your side of the argument though.
All the negativity you guys are sending the game are solely based on prejudice and assumption.
It's not based on prejudice or assumption; it's based on knowledge of Game Theory and mathematics. Just by looking at the rules, we can extrapolate the value of games.
Valve knows what they are doing. They have created some of the best games in history. TF2 may not be a fantastic game, but is a very good and very entertaining one, and they are not going to blow that away this easily. If you don't like it just don't play it.
We are just bitter that they fucked up a game that could have been great, but now is mediocre.
To collect all your thoughts: You don't like games where people get something in return for having it played before you.
And opinions ARE based on prejudice and assumptions because you haven't played it yet. I remember when the game came out and some complained that the game was too balanced and they wanted a Valve to shake it up a bit. Now they have done it and now you are complaining that they changed a game you aren't even playing.
Comments
I might do another of my TF2 tactics things if audacity actually worked.
I must say that most of the sernarios in that video are best case and not aways reflective of what really happens especially the cap points where the enemy so happen not to realise that there is an opening behind them (the way in which they came in, espeially on cap B gravel pit).
Hey at least now with the update the Pyro Hadouken taunt is a one hit kill.
Apart from that, the video is probably just a lot of footage edited down, note how he doesn't die that much.
The air blast uses 25 ammo so thats 8 shots from full ammo (Pyro does have 200 ammo right?). The Backburner seems very hit and miss with the back crits (think along the lines of the back-stab's reliability) but on the server with mostly Pyro's on it last night some people had worked out that two Pyros, one with the flamethrower and the other with the Axetinguisher can kick ass. That said, two Pyros are deadly enough.
I really want to play with them. I really want to see where the game goes when every class has their own set of tactical and strategic loadout options. Sadly, much like with WoW, I'm not willing to waste my time leveling just so I can play the actual game.
Woot! Found my RA2 DVD.
Advice: if you want a proper game then wait a week until all the pyro madness has cool off as at the moment, just like when the medic upgrades first came out, there is just mad pyro vs pyro burning action (for achievements) and not much else.
Also, while the Flare gun is required for one achievement (which is really hard to get), it blocks off a few others.
I'm currently trying to make my way up to the Backburner since it seems that whenever two Pyros face each other, the one with the Backburner is winning simply for the health bonus. On the other hand the air blast is very entertaining and useful, not just to deflect rocket but also for example to split UberMedics from their patients.
And in general I would like to say that the game is still very entertaining to me, but I can see players not liking it when they want to be smug about it and only want to show of their skill at FPSs.
If you are looking for one on one vs against other pyros then the backburner is for you, however if you are more into supporting the team and sentaries and you have some skill with the air push then the basic weapon is just right (even coming up against pyro with the backburner the air push at the right time and angle changes their angle also screwing them up and its then another easy kill).
They've really made the pyro into the engineers best friend. Not only can you reveal spies, but you can knock explosives away from buildings.
I just got the Backburner. I will toy a little bit more with it tomorrow. I think both have their ups and downs, but the Backburner is probably better for ambushing (automatic critical hits on attacks from behind + 50 health points to survive longer) and in Pyro on Pyro. I think on the defense the regular one is better.
As for TF2, I think they should either buff the standard equipment and allow players to choose which they want to use (and have alternates for every class), or stop these ad-hoc "improvements." TF2 was a fun "slow fps," and I fear it may be traveling fast down the Tribes 2 road.
So far I have come to the conclusion that the unlockable weapons are pretty balanced compared to what weapons they are replacing. They basically only give additional options for specific situations. For example, the Flare Gun is good on open maps like Gravel Pit, but bad in close combat maps or maps with water on them, 2fort being the prime example. In those situations the shotgun is superior. The opposite is true for the Backburner and the Air Blast Flamethrower, where the air blast is very handy on Control Point maps and in the open when facing a soldier but the Backburner is better in close combat and ambush situations.
For the achievements I think Valve struck a good balance with easy achievements, hard achievements and achievements that take a lot of time. If you know what you are doing you easily get into possession of the upgrades without necessarily farming for them. I'd say TF2 is a better game for them as they provide entertainment and positive reinforcement.
The additional weapons are not a must and are not absolute. A player with more skill on FPSes without the unlocks will still kill a noob with the unlocks in this game because the additional weapons are balanced to the previous ones. It still takes experience and skill to use them correctly and to choose what weapon when.
The "leveling" in TF2 is miniscule and easily achieved. The threshold when the game is equal to the majority players again will be reached shortly, if it hasn't already. Pyros still don't stand up against good snipers or well played soldiers or demomen and heavies are still a major problem to them.
All the negativity you guys are sending the game are solely based on prejudice and assumption. Valve knows what they are doing. They have created some of the best games in history. TF2 may not be a fantastic game, but is a very good and very entertaining one, and they are not going to blow that away this easily. If you don't like it just don't play it.
This is different from having multiple options available to you. The game is testing these skills and you want a level playing field in order to make sure that the outcome has not been affected by any outside influence. Their mere existence creates an uneven playing field because some players will have the option while others will not. The basis of this discrepancy is not skill or talent but a mere grinding placed by the developers to get more people to play their game. Also, how would I learn how to play effectively with all the weapons when I don't have access to them? Then why is it there in the first place? If people have to create specific maps in order to grind them out, this is not a game I want to play nor that I consider quality. The game should be equal all the time, to all the players. I'm going to go home tonight and play a couple rounds just to see your side of the argument though. It's not based on prejudice or assumption; it's based on knowledge of Game Theory and mathematics. Just by looking at the rules, we can extrapolate the value of games. We are just bitter that they fucked up a game that could have been great, but now is mediocre.
And opinions ARE based on prejudice and assumptions because you haven't played it yet. I remember when the game came out and some complained that the game was too balanced and they wanted a Valve to shake it up a bit. Now they have done it and now you are complaining that they changed a game you aren't even playing.