The problem with the method of difficulty increase in Diablo is that it is the laziest way possible to do it. The ONLY difference from normal to inferno is numbers. There are no new challenges at all. It is simply a gear check and nothing else. Even worse, many attacks are simply undodgeable no matter how good you are and the only way to advance is with better gear.
I understand it perfectly well, Scott. Whether you play the game on Normal or Inferno, the story itself is the same. You get no reward from finishing higher difficulties other than some achievements and gear with higher numbers on them. We all know how you feel about achievements.
It is a skill based game. The problem is that it's a skill you don't recognize. In hardcore, if you die, you are DEAD. You don't come back. There is a quiet minority like me who feel that is a more "pure" game. We can't make mistakes because if we do? Back to level 1.
This whole discussion can only be applied to Normal (AKA Pillow Fight) mode because in Hardcore, there is no real money auction house. It's all in game gold. Real money never enters into the equation.
I've been browsing their forums. There's a bunch of people threatening to file a class action lawsuite against blizz for the ias nerf. They say that it is illegal to sell an item (rmah) and then change it, greatly diminishing its value. Pretty amusing.
The funny thing is that this would have happened if Blizzard didn't have an auction house and people were selling things through ebay. It's just that now they feel like they have someone to point a finger at.
I understand it perfectly well, Scott. Whether you play the game on Normal or Inferno, the story itself is the same. You get no reward from finishing higher difficulties other than some achievements and gear with higher numbers on them. We all know how you feel about achievements.
It is a skill based game. The problem is that it's a skill you don't recognize. In hardcore, if you die, you are DEAD. You don't come back. There is a quiet minority like me who feel that is a more "pure" game. We can't make mistakes because if we do? Back to level 1.
This whole discussion can only be applied to Normal (AKA Pillow Fight) mode because in Hardcore, there is no real money auction house. It's all in game gold. Real money never enters into the equation.
Spending time != skill.
I could be Inferno mode. I would just spend an incredible amount of time leveling up in areas where it is very safe before I proceed. Then I will spend an incredible amount of time grinding until I randomly get the super powerful items I would have gotten from the auction house. Then I win. What skill did I use? Unless having no life and being willing to spend tons of hours is a skill, none.
The ONLY difference from normal to inferno is numbers.
That's not fully accurate. You cannot run into an invulnerable minions, reflect damage, extra health, freezing enemy in normal.
This is what you are not understanding. There is a choice here. If you want to beat the game you have to either pay additional money or spend a ton of time grinding/leveling. That is not skill.
That part is not skill, yes. I understand that fully, if you're talking to me. But there is skill that can be developed. Are you still not understanding that part? I, for example, am better at playing "bullet-hell shooter" than my friend Jeff. That is to say, we're playing the same class, fairly similar gear, but he can't do the same content I can to the same degree. He's just not fast enough in various ways.
We don't need to have this discussion again. You havn't even played the game.
I've been browsing their forums. There's a bunch of people threatening to file a class action lawsuite against blizz for the ias nerf. They say that it is illegal to sell an item (rmah) and then change it, greatly diminishing its value. Pretty amusing.
The funny thing is that this would have happened if Blizzard didn't have an auction house and people were selling things through ebay. It's just that now they feel like they have someone to point a finger at.
I think that because RMAH was built into the game, they can say that Blizzard advocates selling/buying items for real money and thus can hold them accountable. If they did the same thing in D2 no one would even consider legal actions.
To a point, it does. It all depends on how fast you learn and the subject matter. I will agree at some point, you hit a wall. Note I used this in my long winded example above.
I played Diablo II. I can't imagine that Diablo III is that dissimilar other than new content, better graphics, more bits.
Also, this argument of "you haven't played this particular game, therefore you can't comment" needs to end. See, with a book or movie each is just a story. You need to read it or see it to figure out what the deal is.
With a game, sure the content part is different, just like a movie or book, but the gameplay is maths. The same maths governs the entire universe, let alone all games. The only part of games I really care about is the maths part. I don't need to play every single game to know how it works. Diablo III, Diablo II, Fallout, you play one Action RPG, you've played them all. A mere description of the mechanics is sufficient to get a near complete understanding of the game mechanics. No actual play is necessary.
For example, if you told me that Street Fighter V were coming out tomorrow and that the biggest change is that you can pay $1 per character to unlock an additional special move, that is sufficient information for me to make an extensive commentary. There is no need to play it to draw a great many conclusions that are completely accurate.
Oh of course. It also has to do with the fact that people "perceive" that their money was ill spent. This stuff has been going on forever in WoW but since you aren't paying for the items (just the game on a monthly basis) they've suddenly been wronged. The bigger problem is why the hell is anyone buying items for actual currency.
Also, this argument of "you haven't played this particular game, therefore you can't comment" needs to end. See, with a book or movie each is just a story. You need to read it or see it to figure out what the deal is.
With a game, sure the content part is different, just like a movie or book, but the gameplay is maths. The same maths governs the entire universe, let alone all games. The only part of games I really care about is the maths part. I don't need to play every single game to know how it works. Diablo III, Diablo II, Fallout, you play one Action RPG, you've played them all. A mere description of the mechanics is sufficient to get a near complete understanding of the game mechanics. No actual play is necessary.
For example, if you told me that Street Fighter V were coming out tomorrow and that the biggest change is that you can pay $1 per character to unlock an additional special move, that is sufficient information for me to make an extensive commentary. There is no need to play it to draw a great many conclusions that are completely accurate.
To a point, it does. It all depends on how fast you learn and the subject matter. I will agree at some point, you hit a wall. Note I used this in my long winded example above.
See past discussions about the difference between knowledge and skill.
There have been many items priced at the max 250$ that are being sold. There are quite a few people that have spent hundreds already on items. In fact, there are a bunch of people trying to get Blizz to increase the 250$ limit to 1000$. Currently the best items in the game are still being put on ebay since they are worth more than the current limit.
This really baffles me. Say you buy the best items for your character. Now you can finally beat Diablo on inferno. Then what? There's no point in farming anymore you already have the best possible items. So... what do you do?
They thought so little of their money to spend it in the first place.
Ugggg. I needed a good reminder about why arguing on the internet is so futile. >_<</p>
Just because someone is dumb enough to spend their money on something that isn't real, and a video game item is such a trivial and stupid thing to file a lawsuit about, it is still wrong.
Let's say I buy a 12 megapixel camera. A week later it magically turns into a 10 megapixel camera. Uh, that isn't what I paid for. If I knew this was going to happen, I would not have bought it. The store/manufacturer that sold this product is ripping people off. It's a scam. It's not right. Just because it's a stupid item in a video game with a EULA that protects them from legal liability doesn't make it not a scam.
What is the difference between a stock where the perceived value of a company changes and the stock price rises and falls v. an in-game item changing and thus being scammed because you no longer have what you paid for?
Well there is getting the best gear and defeating something and then their is the skill of defeating something with just skill alone and not the stats :-p I prefer winning due to skill then the gear. You can do both in Diablio.
They thought so little of their money to spend it in the first place.
Ugggg. I needed a good reminder about why arguing on the internet is so futile. >_<</p>
Just because someone is dumb enough to spend their money on something that isn't real, and a video game item is such a trivial and stupid thing to file a lawsuit about, it is still wrong.
Let's say I buy a 12 megapixel camera. A week later it magically turns into a 10 megapixel camera. Uh, that isn't what I paid for. If I knew this was going to happen, I would not have bought it. The store/manufacturer that sold this product is ripping people off. It's a scam. It's not right. Just because it's a stupid item in a video game with a EULA that protects them from legal liability doesn't make it not a scam.
It's not wrong at all. I would rather the game be more balanced. Things are going to constantly be in flux. One patch later and whatever item you bought will be highly relevant again. Also, I don't think your analogy is accurate. It's more like you bought a camera that was brand new and a couple weeks after your camera went from the best to being not as good in the scope of cameras. I don't think there is anything there to get upset about.
What is the difference between a stock where the perceived value of a company changes and the stock price rises and falls v. an in-game item changing and thus being scammed because you no longer have what you paid for?
Well, first, are you asking this question from a legal context? Or from a more pragmatic context?
I knew a guy that bought a bunch of WoW accounts specifically because in his country they couldn't be confiscated from him in a lawsuit he was in. Basically, he laundered a bunch of money that way. That said, the guy was dumb, and lost ~80% of the value despite actually winning the lawsuit.
What is the difference between a stock where the perceived value of a company changes and the stock price rises and falls v. an in-game item changing and thus being scammed because you no longer have what you paid for?
Blizzard has an unprecedented level of control over the value of their items as compared to traded companies and their stock prices.
If I buy a video card today for $100. It gets 100fps in the game I like. Tomorrow a new video card comes out that gets 200fps and the price of the card I bought yesterday drops to $50. That's just my bad, but the card still gets 100fps in the game I like. I still got what I paid for.
Now let's try again.
I buy a video card today for $100. It gets 100fps in the game I like. Tomorrow a new video card comes out for $150 and gets 200fps in the game I like. The price of the card I bought yesterday still drops to $50. I go home and for some reason my card is only getting 50fps instead of 100fps! They sabotaged my card! I bought something that gets 100fps, and now it only does 50. It's broken! Even if the law doesn't permit it, morally I should be able to get a full refund.
Blizzard has an unprecedented level of control over the value of their items as compared to traded companies and their stock prices.
Over their value? Indirectly. They change the game, *players* perceive the value. Regardless...
Presuming that Blizzard will not be manipulating the game for the sake of manipulating the AH in hopes of drumming up sales, they will only change it for game balance reasons.
That said, speculating on a given stat or set of stats (item) isn't that much different than a stock speculation, the more I think of it.
Well this is the first of many many Blizzard lawsuits related to the RMAH that are going to happen. The results of the legal battles, one way or another, are going to be interesting. They will potentially tell us a whole lot about how digital "goods" are viewed by the law... though part of this has been seen already in Second Life and similar.
I'm not saying I disagree with Scott, but here's an opposing thought: Could you sue the government for inflationary practices that devalue the dollars you earned at your job?
No.
Let's say you got a $1000 bonus check at Christmas and the government printed a bunch of money this spring to help counter economic pressures. Now your $1000 is still "worth" $1000, but its purchasing power is only $991. There is no class action suit here; the issuer of the currency, whether it's dollars or Blizzard gold, has control over the valuation of fiat money.
I can tell you from experience having worked at Blizzard... They get the threat of a lawsuit thrown at them daily. Hell, my record of being forwarded emails to that effect was 17 work days in a row. In all that time, not one came to fruition.
*If* these sorts of cases take hold, you are correct. I'll be handing out the popcorn.
I'm not saying I disagree with Scott, but here's an opposing thought: Could you sue the government for inflationary practices that devalue the dollars you earned at your job?
No.
Let's say you got a $1000 bonus check at Christmas and the government printed a bunch of money this spring to help counter economic pressures. Now your $1000 is still "worth" $1000, but its purchasing power is only $991. There is no class action suit here; the issuer of the currency, whether it's dollars or Blizzard gold, has control over the valuation of fiat money.
If I buy a video card today for $100. It gets 100fps in the game I like. Tomorrow a new video card comes out that gets 200fps and the price of the card I bought yesterday drops to $50. That's just my bad, but the card still gets 100fps in the game I like. I still got what I paid for.
Now let's try again.
I buy a video card today for $100. It gets 100fps in the game I like. Tomorrow a new video card comes out for $150 and gets 200fps in the game I like. The price of the card I bought yesterday still drops to $50. I go home and for some reason my card is only getting 50fps instead of 100fps! They sabotaged my card! I bought something that gets 100fps, and now it only does 50. It's broken! Even if the law doesn't permit it, morally I should be able to get a full refund.
In this case you are presenting from the "wronged" person's point of view. They went in thinking that their card would consistently get 100fps, when they shouldn't expect that. If you bought something from the auction house you should expect Blizzard to make balancing changes to the game. Thus your product will fluctuate on performance.
EDIT: That also being said, I'm not sure about the RMAH but the regular auction house all the really expensive items aren't even that good. You can usually get something that isn't Legendary or whatever that is far more effective. So you could either buy the cheaper product and get more for your money or buy the fancy vase that doesn't server any purpose.
Comments
It is a skill based game. The problem is that it's a skill you don't recognize. In hardcore, if you die, you are DEAD. You don't come back. There is a quiet minority like me who feel that is a more "pure" game. We can't make mistakes because if we do? Back to level 1.
This whole discussion can only be applied to Normal (AKA Pillow Fight) mode because in Hardcore, there is no real money auction house. It's all in game gold. Real money never enters into the equation.
I could be Inferno mode. I would just spend an incredible amount of time leveling up in areas where it is very safe before I proceed. Then I will spend an incredible amount of time grinding until I randomly get the super powerful items I would have gotten from the auction house. Then I win. What skill did I use? Unless having no life and being willing to spend tons of hours is a skill, none.
We don't need to have this discussion again. You havn't even played the game.
Also, this argument of "you haven't played this particular game, therefore you can't comment" needs to end. See, with a book or movie each is just a story. You need to read it or see it to figure out what the deal is.
With a game, sure the content part is different, just like a movie or book, but the gameplay is maths. The same maths governs the entire universe, let alone all games. The only part of games I really care about is the maths part. I don't need to play every single game to know how it works. Diablo III, Diablo II, Fallout, you play one Action RPG, you've played them all. A mere description of the mechanics is sufficient to get a near complete understanding of the game mechanics. No actual play is necessary.
For example, if you told me that Street Fighter V were coming out tomorrow and that the biggest change is that you can pay $1 per character to unlock an additional special move, that is sufficient information for me to make an extensive commentary. There is no need to play it to draw a great many conclusions that are completely accurate.
Seconded
Ugggg. I needed a good reminder about why arguing on the internet is so futile. >_<
Because if you are, you're still wrong. I thought you had learned that.
This really baffles me. Say you buy the best items for your character. Now you can finally beat Diablo on inferno. Then what? There's no point in farming anymore you already have the best possible items. So... what do you do?
Let's say I buy a 12 megapixel camera. A week later it magically turns into a 10 megapixel camera. Uh, that isn't what I paid for. If I knew this was going to happen, I would not have bought it. The store/manufacturer that sold this product is ripping people off. It's a scam. It's not right. Just because it's a stupid item in a video game with a EULA that protects them from legal liability doesn't make it not a scam.
But yeah, that guy that spends $2500 to gear up... he's not enjoying the game for the same reasons I'm enjoying the game.
What is the difference between a stock where the perceived value of a company changes and the stock price rises and falls v. an in-game item changing and thus being scammed because you no longer have what you paid for?
I knew a guy that bought a bunch of WoW accounts specifically because in his country they couldn't be confiscated from him in a lawsuit he was in. Basically, he laundered a bunch of money that way. That said, the guy was dumb, and lost ~80% of the value despite actually winning the lawsuit.
Now let's try again.
I buy a video card today for $100. It gets 100fps in the game I like. Tomorrow a new video card comes out for $150 and gets 200fps in the game I like. The price of the card I bought yesterday still drops to $50. I go home and for some reason my card is only getting 50fps instead of 100fps! They sabotaged my card! I bought something that gets 100fps, and now it only does 50. It's broken! Even if the law doesn't permit it, morally I should be able to get a full refund.
Over their value? Indirectly. They change the game, *players* perceive the value. Regardless...
Presuming that Blizzard will not be manipulating the game for the sake of manipulating the AH in hopes of drumming up sales, they will only change it for game balance reasons.
That said, speculating on a given stat or set of stats (item) isn't that much different than a stock speculation, the more I think of it.
It's going to be a fun wreck to watch...
No.
Let's say you got a $1000 bonus check at Christmas and the government printed a bunch of money this spring to help counter economic pressures. Now your $1000 is still "worth" $1000, but its purchasing power is only $991. There is no class action suit here; the issuer of the currency, whether it's dollars or Blizzard gold, has control over the valuation of fiat money.
*If* these sorts of cases take hold, you are correct. I'll be handing out the popcorn.
EDIT: That also being said, I'm not sure about the RMAH but the regular auction house all the really expensive items aren't even that good. You can usually get something that isn't Legendary or whatever that is far more effective. So you could either buy the cheaper product and get more for your money or buy the fancy vase that doesn't server any purpose.