The fact that the Catholic church does not excommunicate those who do not fully believe the tenets of, say, The Apostle's Creed (which I can recite in my sleep to this day) is an indication of an acceptance of that interpretation.
One cannot be excommunicated except in the presence of specific cause. If accused of such, and if shown to be the case, and if brought before the Church, it is in fact possible to be excommunicated.
Politically, the Church avoids excommunication en masse for PR reasons, but that is another matter. And, currently, there is a chance it will happen over less. Benigno Aquino III is in danger of it currently for his position on birth control.
The Pope is infallible, remember, so anything he says is the absolute word of God. If the Pope gets up and says, "Jesus was just some dude," then the church moves away from that part of the creed.
Yeap. But he hasn't yet. Until he does, gnostic attacks on the Church are valid. The Pope could trivially avoid it by explicitly changing the doctrine.
The Pope is infallible, remember, so anything he says is the absolute word of God. If the Pope gets up and says, "Jesus was just some dude," then the church moves away from that part of the creed.
Yeap. But he hasn't yet. Until he does, gnostic attacks on the Church are valid. The Pope could trivially avoid it by explicitly changing the doctrine.
Well, I believe the Pope has said that much of the Bible is to be taken metaphorically, not literally, while cleverly not stating which parts (except for Genesis -- that part has been explicitly stated to be metaphorical). I suppose this is an attempt (and a not very successful one) of trying to have his communion wafer and eat it too.
Politically, the Church avoids excommunication en masse for PR reasons
And thus the reason why the Church as the de facto authority on its religion is a load of shit. This is also why I separate discussions about the Church from discussions about faith.
While bible-thumping evangelicals and born-agains are batshit crazy, I have a lot more respect for a very strong community-driven faith-based organization than I do for some monolithic entity dictating what is acceptable from on high.
If you're going to believe in crazy, you might as well make it applicable to your situation, y'know?
Well, I believe the Pope has said that much of the Bible is to be taken metaphorically, not literally, while cleverly not stating which parts (except for Genesis -- that part has been explicitly stated to be metaphorical). I suppose this is an attempt (and a not very successful one) of trying to have his communion wafer and eat it too.
This. It's weasly and flimsy, but that's what it is. This is also why most people I know don't really identify with a church based on their beliefs so much as they do based on the community within.
That's something I've been exposed to again as of late. We rent a lot of churches and stuff in the SCA, because they're convenient spaces and they usually have lots of resources available that make it easy to organize a community. So I've been into some Episcopal and Methodist churches again, and I sort of forgot about the community aspect that gets tied in with all of this. It's interesting to see a bunch of people coming together and giving up their time on a Saturday to fix up what is effectively their community center.
While I know that we don't need a religion in order to build a strong, active, and involved community, I'll be damned if I've seen a more effective way of doing it yet. I think that's been changing lately, but I don't think it's near the level of a church just yet.
I worship Pellon Pekko, the Finnish god who gave us fermentation. Celebrations to Pellon Pekko involve feats of strength, copious amounts of drinking, and fertility rites. And by "fertility rites," I mean "drunken orgies."
I worship Pellon Pekko, the Finnish god who gave us fermentation. Celebrations to Pellon Pekko involve feats of strength, copious amounts of drinking, and fertility rites. And by "fertility rites," I mean "drunken orgies."
That's a fine religion. Note the lack of a claim that Pellon Pekko actually exists. ;^)
The Pope is infallible, remember, so anything he says is the absolute word of God. If the Pope gets up and says, "Jesus was just some dude," then the church moves away from that part of the creed.
That's an outdated idea. Nowadays, in order for the Pope to proclaim a statement infallible, he needs to do establish the following things.
Sense of Faith (This means that everyone in the church will agree with it. "God is love" is a good example.) or
Consensus of Faith (A majority of believers agree with it. Consensus agreed upon by survey)
The statement must have proper theological evidence from the New Testament.
It must concern issues of faith and morals.
So, in this case, there is no fucking way that they could get a majority of people to agree that "Jesus was just a dude." Furthermore, theologically Jesus has to be both human and divine in order for the Bible to work.
Whoa, when did that happen? That's what I was taught in Catholic school like 15 years ago.
Papal infallibility still exists, but they need to do that list of things in order actually declare something infallible. I believe that those regulations were enacted during Vatican II in the '60s.
Don't take this the wrong way, Sonic, but I did NOT suffer through two years of community college just to go to a college that accepted me straight out of high school.
USC just emailed me and asked if I had a second choice for my major. I have a feeling that this means I won't be going there in the end.
Declare for a different major and immediately transfer into your chosen major after admittance? It's pretty easy to game the bureaucracy at a lot of big universities.
I'm sure you can find a way to go there and do what you love, man.
Don't take this the wrong way, Sonic, but I did NOT suffer through two years of community college just to go to a college that accepted me straight out of high school.
Nah, it's cool. CSUN wasn't my first choice either.
The biggest fail of my life: My dad is... a birther.
If you don't know what that means, a birther is one of those people that believe that President Obama is not a citizen of the United States and ask to see the birth certificate, no matter how many times he's shown it.
The biggest fail of my life: My dad is... a birther.
If you don't know what that means, a birther is one of those people that believe that President Obama is not a citizen of the United States and ask to see the birth certificate, no matter how many times he's shown it.
Solution - family vacation to hawaii, and while you're there, go and see the birth certificate in person.
Comments
Politically, the Church avoids excommunication en masse for PR reasons, but that is another matter. And, currently, there is a chance it will happen over less. Benigno Aquino III is in danger of it currently for his position on birth control. Yeap. But he hasn't yet. Until he does, gnostic attacks on the Church are valid. The Pope could trivially avoid it by explicitly changing the doctrine.
While bible-thumping evangelicals and born-agains are batshit crazy, I have a lot more respect for a very strong community-driven faith-based organization than I do for some monolithic entity dictating what is acceptable from on high.
If you're going to believe in crazy, you might as well make it applicable to your situation, y'know? This. It's weasly and flimsy, but that's what it is. This is also why most people I know don't really identify with a church based on their beliefs so much as they do based on the community within.
That's something I've been exposed to again as of late. We rent a lot of churches and stuff in the SCA, because they're convenient spaces and they usually have lots of resources available that make it easy to organize a community. So I've been into some Episcopal and Methodist churches again, and I sort of forgot about the community aspect that gets tied in with all of this. It's interesting to see a bunch of people coming together and giving up their time on a Saturday to fix up what is effectively their community center.
While I know that we don't need a religion in order to build a strong, active, and involved community, I'll be damned if I've seen a more effective way of doing it yet. I think that's been changing lately, but I don't think it's near the level of a church just yet.
I mean, shit, Keats will help a brother out in an orgy. As far as I'm concerned, that qualifies him for sainthood in the church of Pekko.
- Sense of Faith (This means that everyone in the church will agree with it. "God is love" is a good example.) or
- Consensus of Faith (A majority of believers agree with it. Consensus agreed upon by survey)
- The statement must have proper theological evidence from the New Testament.
- It must concern issues of faith and morals.
So, in this case, there is no fucking way that they could get a majority of people to agree that "Jesus was just a dude." Furthermore, theologically Jesus has to be both human and divine in order for the Bible to work.I'm sure you can find a way to go there and do what you love, man.
I would argue that gnostic atheism is an entirely reasonable position, however. What's wrong with it?
If you don't know what that means, a birther is one of those people that believe that President Obama is not a citizen of the United States and ask to see the birth certificate, no matter how many times he's shown it.