Can you fight the estimated use tax in NY? Sounds very unfair that they are imposing a tax on something that they assume you are doing.
Apparently you can, or at least they don't enforce it, as no one pays it. I assume that, in theory, you can provide itemized receipts and such of all your online purchases if you wish to pay less than the estimated taxes appropriate to your income bracket.
If they are evaluating it on your income and you have multiple incomes from multiple states that they don't consider that seems awkward. Less awkward than if you had to discern which dollars were spent on which purchases, but still odd.
Can you fight the estimated use tax in NY? Sounds very unfair that they are imposing a tax on something that they assume you are doing.
Apparently you can, or at least they don't enforce it, as no one pays it. I assume that, in theory, you can provide itemized receipts and such of all your online purchases if you wish to pay less than the estimated taxes appropriate to your income bracket.
What if you don't buy anything from out of state or the places you do buy from have a higher sales tax? How do you prove you DIDN'T buy things that they want to tax you for buying? Shouldn't the burden be on NY to prove that you purchased what they are taxing you for?
Well, almost everyone I ever order from pays New York sales tax anyway. It's rare I ever buy anything where it isn't already included.
I do not, however, pay use tax on inter-county purchases or physical out-of-state purchases.
To be fair, when avoiding sales tax consisted primarily of traveling outside your jurisdiction to another with lower rates, I don't think this was as much of a problem. Generally, due to the effort required, most people would only do that for the "once in a blue moon" item due to the time and effort required to travel to another jurisdiction (with the exception of border towns, anyway). As a result, most states were willing to take the hit on a small percentage of all purchases, even if they were on big ticket items like big screen TVs, as they'd still get their sales taxes on everyday purchases. However, the modern convenience and lower prices (and let's face it, if Amazon, even ignoring taxes, cost as much or more than your local whatever shop, you probably wouldn't use it as much if at all unless you really were too lazy to get your butt down to said local shop) of online purchasing has resulted in a much bigger chunk of taxable sales now going unreported and unpaid. This is why states are starting to bitch and moan about the situation. It doesn't help that the brick and mortar retailers are also bitching and moaning, although I think their complaints are misplaced. I don't buy from Amazon to avoid paying sales tax. I buy from Amazon because they're significantly cheaper than you even before taxes come into the equation. My favorite example is the TV I bought a couple years back which was $600 cheaper, before taxes on Amazon than at the local Circuit City (and you wonder why they went under?). Give me a price and selection equal to Amazon's and I'd purchase from you instead of purchasing online, tax or no tax.
What if you don't buy anything from out of state or the places you do buy from have a higher sales tax? How do you prove you DIDN'T buy things that they want to tax you for buying? Shouldn't the burden be on NY to prove that you purchased what they are taxing you for?
I think that's more or less the way it works now, but they never bother going after you unless you committed some other egregious tax law violation. It's pretty much an honor system, best I can tell, that says, "We'll assume that you didn't buy anything online, but if you did and don't want to take the time to calculate exactly how much you owe, he's an estimated amount you can pay. However, if we audit you for some other reason and found out you lied here, you'll most certainly pay!"
...let's face it, if Amazon, even ignoring taxes, cost as much or more than your local whatever shop, you probably wouldn't use it as much if at all unless you really were too lazy to get your butt down to said local shop)
Thing is, the taxes make a negligible difference in the price discrepancy. But, even if they did, or if Amazon cost as much as or slightly more than local shops, I'd still use Amazon.
I hate shopping. I use amazon primarily for the convenience, especially when comparison shopping among multiple choices for a given thing I need. Amazon's text is far more informative than almost any employee of any store I've ever visited in the last decade.
I shop on Amazon not for price, but because the experience is in every way superior to shopping in person for the vast majority of goods.
Even still, why does a use tax even exist if all it really is is a sales tax on purchases made outside of a states taxing jurisdiction? How can they be legal?
So what do we do if someone in California buys a product from a company based in Florida, but the warehouse that has the actual item is in Minnesota? Should they each get their cut, or should only one of them? Which one?
Even still, why does a use tax even exist if all it really is is a sales tax on purchases made outside of a states taxing jurisdiction? How can they be legal?
Because they have laws allowing them to do so? I mean, that's pretty obvious.
Even still, why does a use tax even exist if all it really is is a sales tax on purchases made outside of a states taxing jurisdiction? How can they be legal?
Because they have laws allowing them to do so? I mean, that's pretty obvious.
oh yeah, because legislatures NEVER pass laws that they lack the authority to pass...
Even still, why does a use tax even exist if all it really is is a sales tax on purchases made outside of a states taxing jurisdiction? How can they be legal?
Because they are taxing the use of it based on the sale price, not the sale. Yay.
Even still, why does a use tax even exist if all it really is is a sales tax on purchases made outside of a states taxing jurisdiction? How can they be legal?
Because they have laws allowing them to do so? I mean, that's pretty obvious.
oh yeah, because legislatures NEVER pass laws that they lack the authority to pass...
1) "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
2) Most states have codes that expressly authorize the collection of taxes.
I hate shopping. I use amazon primarily for the convenience, especially when comparison shopping among multiple choices for a given thing I need. Amazon's text is far more informative than almost any employee of any store I've ever visited in the last decade.
I shop on Amazon not for price, but because the experience is in every way superior to shopping in person for the vast majority of goods.
I hate shopping as well, but I hate waiting even more than shopping. All other things being equal, if getting something today involved me driving to a shop to pick something up, I would do that. However, I do agree with you that Amazon's text is certainly far more informative than nearly any employee of any brick and mortar store out there. However, for anything major, I often heavily research it online anyway. If I'm going to buy something, whether at Amazon or somewhere else, I already know exactly what I'm going to buy and all I care about at that point is how much it costs and how soon I can get it. If I'm buying brick-and-mortar, I just walk in, grab what I want, pay for it, and walk out. I'll give you that Amazon's text does make the research much easier as it does present all the important information and specifications up front for you to peruse. I certainly do hate having to use my smartphone at a brick-and-mortar store to get specs on something because their displays and their employees are absolutely useless.
Even still, why does a use tax even exist if all it really is is a sales tax on purchases made outside of a states taxing jurisdiction? How can they be legal?
Because they are taxing the use of it based on the sale price, not the sale. Yay.
While they are taxing the use they are exempting items from this tax based upon the sales tax paid on the item. So while it is called a use tax it is actually a sales tax imposed on a sale that occurred outside of their taxing jurisdiction.
If a state imposed both a sales and use tax on all purchases no matter where the purchase took place that would be different than the current scheme which only imposes a use tax if the sales tax paid on the purchase was less than the states sales tax rate.
If a state wants to charge a use tax in this manner and someone makes a purchase from another state they should not have to pay a sales tax on the sale. For example the earlier NH - MA example: if MA is heavily enforcing a tax on out of state purchases they should also be issuing sales tax refunds to people leaving the state who made purchases in MA.
Example 2: you live in NY, FL and TX for four months out of each year. You purchase a $5,000 item from amazon that travels with you when you move. Which state gets to collect a use tax on this item?
Can you fight the estimated use tax in NY? Sounds very unfair that they are imposing a tax on something that they assume you are doing.
Apparently you can, or at least they don't enforce it, as no one pays it. I assume that, in theory, you can provide itemized receipts and such of all your online purchases if you wish to pay less than the estimated taxes appropriate to your income bracket.
Why would you need to fight it? It's not required to pay the estimate. It's just a framework you can use to simplify doing your taxes. The form still lets you put whatever number you want in, including zero. Some people actually don't order anything online and they buy all of their stuff in-state. Those people SHOULD put zero in that box.
Can you fight the estimated use tax in NY? Sounds very unfair that they are imposing a tax on something that they assume you are doing.
Apparently you can, or at least they don't enforce it, as no one pays it. I assume that, in theory, you can provide itemized receipts and such of all your online purchases if you wish to pay less than the estimated taxes appropriate to your income bracket.
Why would you need to fight it? It's not required to pay the estimate. It's just a framework you can use to simplify doing your taxes. The form still lets you put whatever number you want in, including zero. Some people actually don't order anything online and they buy all of their stuff in-state. Those people SHOULD put zero in that box.
misunderstanding, I thought you HAD to pay the estimate.
Wouldn't this mean that other countries would now be able to pass similar laws, thereby hypothetically forcing all internet businesses to calculate the taxes for every single municipality in THE ENTIRE WORLD?
EDIT: Also, some countries charge VAT, and a few online retailers (but not all) include that in the price. Should I be forced to pay VAT for things bought from the UK but imported to NY? Should I pay a use tax in addition to VAT?
Perhaps as an alternative, they can simply report the sale to the appropriate municipality and have the municipality bill the purchaser for appropriate taxes.
If a state wants to charge a use tax in this manner and someone makes a purchase from another state they should not have to pay a sales tax on the sale. For example the earlier NH - MA example: if MA is heavily enforcing a tax on out of state purchases they should also be issuing sales tax refunds to people leaving the state who made purchases in MA.
I believe you can do this if you file the appropriate paperwork. I know that I see this sort of stuff when I travel overseas, anyway, though I'm not sure if it works on a state-to-state basis.
Also, one thing to keep in mind in the NH-MA case is that NH is actively telling MA residents to not pay their taxes in their advertising. You can't drive anywhere near the MA/NH border without seeing billboards telling people to go shop in tax free New Hampshire. They're pretty brazen about this. They're also pretty brazen about having signs telling people in MA to purchase fireworks in NH (illegal in MA, perfectly legal in NH). Oh, and then there is all the booze... People from MA may claim they're driving up to NH to see the foliage in the fall, but more often than not they're just going up there to stock up on tax-free booze for the holidays. Trust me, there is a long and sordid history here.
Example 2: you live in NY, FL and TX for four months out of each year. You purchase a $5,000 item from amazon that travels with you when you move. Which state gets to collect a use tax on this item?
Now you're just trying to make things as complicated as possible. I believe most statutes say that in situations like this, the state that the item was delivered to gets the use tax. In this case, just have it delivered to the state with the lowest tax rate. I mean, if I purchase something when my legal residence is in MA and then move to NH 11 months later, I don't get a refund (pro-rated or not) on my MA sales tax. That would just be silly.
Answer: hire a tax accountant, because your tax situation is very complicated. I can't imagine what other tax hijinks would occur because you live in 3 different places during the year.
You know, I have to agree that a full rewrite of American tax law would probably be a good thing if done properly. Of course, I'm pessimistic and don't have much faith that it would be done properly.
Out of curiosity, just what would your design of a good and sane tax law would consist of? Most of the crap I've seen/heard include things such as the so-called "fair" tax, which tends to consist of either a flat rate income tax or a flat rate sales tax in lieu of an income tax. However, I've certainly seen a fair number of arguments saying that neither of these so-called "fair" taxes are in fact fair for various reasons (regressive taxation against the poor being the #1 reason why it's not fair).
Flat tax rates seem fair, but it makes expensive purchases way too expensive, pushing just barely obtainable items out of reach for poor people. Especially when it's high as the suggested 15% sales tax on all sales being the only tax. That would just push people to sell things privately and keep it a secret. No one wants to buy a $50,000 house when you have to pay 15% of that in taxes.
Additionally, that means that if people just choose to buy less, they contribute less to the government than everyone else. There will still be an uneven distribution. And people will still fight for all their tax exemptions on buying things.
Comments
I do not, however, pay use tax on inter-county purchases or physical out-of-state purchases.
I hate shopping. I use amazon primarily for the convenience, especially when comparison shopping among multiple choices for a given thing I need. Amazon's text is far more informative than almost any employee of any store I've ever visited in the last decade.
I shop on Amazon not for price, but because the experience is in every way superior to shopping in person for the vast majority of goods.
2) Most states have codes that expressly authorize the collection of taxes.
Seriously, is this amateur hour?
If a state imposed both a sales and use tax on all purchases no matter where the purchase took place that would be different than the current scheme which only imposes a use tax if the sales tax paid on the purchase was less than the states sales tax rate.
If a state wants to charge a use tax in this manner and someone makes a purchase from another state they should not have to pay a sales tax on the sale. For example the earlier NH - MA example: if MA is heavily enforcing a tax on out of state purchases they should also be issuing sales tax refunds to people leaving the state who made purchases in MA.
Example 2: you live in NY, FL and TX for four months out of each year. You purchase a $5,000 item from amazon that travels with you when you move. Which state gets to collect a use tax on this item?
EDIT: Also, some countries charge VAT, and a few online retailers (but not all) include that in the price. Should I be forced to pay VAT for things bought from the UK but imported to NY? Should I pay a use tax in addition to VAT?
Also, one thing to keep in mind in the NH-MA case is that NH is actively telling MA residents to not pay their taxes in their advertising. You can't drive anywhere near the MA/NH border without seeing billboards telling people to go shop in tax free New Hampshire. They're pretty brazen about this. They're also pretty brazen about having signs telling people in MA to purchase fireworks in NH (illegal in MA, perfectly legal in NH). Oh, and then there is all the booze... People from MA may claim they're driving up to NH to see the foliage in the fall, but more often than not they're just going up there to stock up on tax-free booze for the holidays. Trust me, there is a long and sordid history here. Now you're just trying to make things as complicated as possible. I believe most statutes say that in situations like this, the state that the item was delivered to gets the use tax. In this case, just have it delivered to the state with the lowest tax rate. I mean, if I purchase something when my legal residence is in MA and then move to NH 11 months later, I don't get a refund (pro-rated or not) on my MA sales tax. That would just be silly.
I'm not kidding when I say I want a full rewrite.
Additionally, that means that if people just choose to buy less, they contribute less to the government than everyone else. There will still be an uneven distribution. And people will still fight for all their tax exemptions on buying things.