Nah, his post wasn't that offensive, but I was a bit irked by the anime comment. It's just a rule of mine that a medium cannot be judged unless actually used.
Can't really say anime is bad unless you watch a little of it. The animation is easy to see even with a trailer of it or a few minutes of the first episode. But the pacing and plot take a bit more.
With a game, well, as Rym said, you can't really judge it until you understand it. However, I kind of go farther than that and go by the initial categories: Replayability, Score, Graphics, Plot, Gameplay, etc. Stuff like that. I don't really go in with any specific needs or wants unless I've played a really well done game of the genre in the past and expect the same amount of work put into the categories as that particular game.
But yes, Xenophobia is bad. I was lucky I didn't get my head bitten off. XD
EDIT: Oh hey, more posts while I was writing mine. I'm pretty much ready to defend my likes and dislikes too.
So, would you care about the feelings of someone you derided for playing a Japanese pedo-rape game? You're just making a taste judgement. Would you politely accept said persons like of the game? Or would you challenge them to defend it? I'm ready to defend my opinions, likes, and dislikes, and it speaks very poorly of someone who is unable to do so.
Way to throw in rape, Rym. There is a complete difference between someone enjoying WOW (which you can call a time waster at best) and someone enjoying child pornography. You have openly called people that enjoy those games idiots, intellectually lazy, and useless. These are assumptions about the people, not the game itself.
You have openly called people that enjoy those games idiots, intellectually lazy, and useless.
Don't conflate my opinion with Scott's. I feel that the majority of WoW is largely devoid of intellectually stimulating content, and I do question the taste of people who play it, but that's that.
Way to throw in rape, Rym. There is a complete difference between someone enjoying WOW (which you can call a time waster at best) and someone enjoying child pornography.
If it doesn't use real actors, then it's just a game. A sick game, but nonetheless just a game. You making a judgement about the person playing solely for their enjoyment of the media is identical to the judgements I make every day when I see people using media. You're making a value judgement about the person based solely on the media they consume. The media you consume is verymuch a part of who you are. It's extant information.
No, our forumites are just getting increasingly antagonistic and xenophobic when new people come in. Scott and I have been debating for a while how to discourage it.
See now, I totally disagree. I don't think that just because some new guy posts like an idiot, we have to be nice to him. He said some stupid shit, we talked about it, and he said more stupid shit.
If it doesn't use real actors, then it's just a game. A sick game, but nonetheless just a game. You making a judgement about the person playing solely for their enjoyment of the media is identical to the judgements I make every day when I see people using media. You're making a value judgement about the person based solely on the media they consume. The media you consume is very much a part of who you are. It's extant information.
Rym, you are equating two very, very different things and doing a ham-fisted job of it. you have created a flawed analogy, and you know it. Enjoying depictions of rape and enjoying a time waster are two very different subjects. Moreover, you are assuming that I would openly insult and repeatedly demean someone that did enjoy those images. You and Scott both enjoy manga that have messages, images, and content that I find equally disturbing, but I do not think you are perverts nor to I demean your character for enjoying this mangas.
EDIT: Let me clarify, I often agree with the opinion of Rym and Scott on these games, I just don't let my opinion of the game color my view of the person.
I think there are a lot of people on the forum that are very intelligent people who excel at what they do. These people tend to have little tolerance for others who do not fit into that mold. I don't know what the correct answer is, but I myself have been guilty of atagonistic debate versus respectful debate. Most everyone here has acted in this manner at some point, if not often. Much of the debate on this forum is about acting superior than respectfully addressing the underlying issue. Often, people want to make the other person look dumb, instead of making themself look smart.
And the other major issue on this forum is that most members do not understand that at the end of the day, on social issues, reasonable people can disagree. People here tend to view the world is being entirely black or white. Maybe that's a symptom of people that are predominately involved in technology, where rules and outcomes are most often absolute.
Honestly, they displayed these same qualities in the earlier days of the forum. They were once proud of this fact as it kept their forum from being frequented by people with terrible grammar, spelling, and less than high debate skills. It has gotten nastier since then, though. Now they want to change the tone, they will need to do so by using their moderating powers and by setting a good example.
Honestly, they displayed these same qualities in the earlier days of the forum. They were once proud of this fact as it kept their forum from being frequented by people with terrible grammar, spelling, and less than high debate skills. It has gotten nastier since then, though. Now they want to change the tone, they will need to do so by using their moderating powers and by setting a good example.
Honestly, I think that we still want to scare away people with terrible grammar, spelling, and less than high debate skills.
The problem I think is this. When the forum started, very few people had the good attitude of challenging and questioning everything. But since there was a very small percentage of such people, they stuck around. Over time, they have learned. Now almost the entire forum is awesome people who have learned to challenge and question as we. Someone entering the forum back in the day would receive maybe one or two challenges. Now someone posting a stupid first post will be challenged by the entire population of the forum.
I think the solution is to simply reduce the quantity. When a first poster makes their inevitably wrong statements, just one or maybe two people should engage them rather than everyone at once. A small handful of challenges are manageable, and they are likely to reply and continue to reply, and to learn. A whole threadful of challenges is not something a new person is equipped to handle, even if they are good people, or potential good people.
The moderation stick is not a subtle instrument, and will not solve this problem. It is only useful for eliminating edge cases, such as spammers. It is not capable of shifting the bell curve. I will continue to take my Wikipedia/crowd-sourced stance. If you want to change Wikipedia, you edit it. You are this community. If you want this community to change. Then you have to change you. It's not my job to change you. I'll just make sure you spell it correctly, and use commas.
Honestly, they displayed these same qualities in the earlier days of the forum. They were once proud of this fact as it kept their forum from being frequented by people with terrible grammar, spelling, and less than high debate skills. It has gotten nastier since then, though. Now they want to change the tone, they will need to do so by using their moderating powers and by setting a good example.
There are other forums though that managed to keep out the terrible grammar, spelling and keep debates sensible without every post that steps out of line been jumped on by a group of rabid clique members.
There are other forums though that managed to keep out the terrible grammar, spelling and keep debates sensible without every post that steps out of line been jumped on by a group of rabid clique members.
Obviously not a forum of skeptics. Challenge everything and always be prepared to defend yourself.
Obviously not a forum of skeptics. Challenge everything and always be prepared to defend yourself.
I would say that the majority of posters on the forum I'm thinking of are skeptics. They just do it in a way that doesn't come across as been abit of a twat when replying to someone who has just said something unpopular.
Challenge everything and always be prepared to defend yourself.
The problem in this forum is that because almost everything has been discussed ad naseum, the "challenging" has actually devolved. Now that we know everybody's personality, that winds up being a factor in a "challenge", rather than sticking to the facts. Also, too many people hide behind cliches, pretending that this constitutes good debate. It's not impressive if you know burdens of proof and logical fallacies if you don't also make a coherent argument in support of your position.
well I decided to come back and read the responses and YES, listen to the podcast still.
I should have started out thanking Scrym for entertaining me at work with putting in all the work they do just for my enjoyment.
I just wanted better gaming reviews, that's it pretty much. I just felt they skimmed on the gaming podcasts. There are lots of games out there to be reviewed. I've been playing Dragon Age, Modern Warefare, New Super Mario Bros., etc. I thought is was kind of wierd when they reviewed D&DO when it went free in October, and was a better game before and is 3+ years old. Maybe an Aion review would have been more time sensitive, since I didn't play that I would have been more interested.
I miss the show though, and am always wanting more podcasts to listen to, so I hope maybe this will spark something new in their mental que.
Personally I listen to the Tuesday podcast mainly for the board game reviews, the video game reviews are good and it's always fun listen to old men complain about "How it was better in my day son". I view Geeknights as focused look at one game at a time, not something to guide my views on what to buy now. For that I turn to Gamers With Jobs, they offer more interesting content and are upto date with their reviews.
challenging things is always good, but questioning why and what you want is sometimes better imo
Well the lesson is simple. If you want to challenge or question the normality of forum, that has both respected and veteran members, then you must be polite and conscious of what Rym and Scott have to go through. Be polite. I mean, people were willing to listen and agree with some of your points, but you came at us holding a gigantic bomb.
Just because you say "It's my opinion" doesn't make it polite. That's like saying "Cocaine should be legalized, just my opinion."
I'll admit that I've been reluctant to participate in any of the discussions so far, either because I don't know enough on the subject (I don't watch much anime) or I didn't care to get savaged by people I don't even know. I like that the forum expects good grammer, spelling and debate skills, I don't care for the tone of some of the conversation, in the Obama thread for example. Maybe my first topic was a boring one for the crew here, but I was hoping for more than a sarcastic "slow news week huh" response.
challenging things is always good, but questioning why and what you want is sometimes better imo
Well the lesson is simple. If you want to challenge or question the normality of forum, that has both respected and veteran members, then you must be polite and conscious of what Rym and Scott have to go through. Be polite. I mean, people were willing to listen and agree with some of your points, but you came at us holding a gigantic bomb.
Just because you say "It's my opinion" doesn't make it polite. That's like saying "Cocaine should be legalized, just my opinion."
I just wanted better game podcasts. There are more games, lot's more, and deserves better.
If I understand a game and have mastered it, then there is no reason to ever play again except to teach or to prove my mastery.
This is why indie games utilizing procedural generation are the best ones out there right now. We all know about DFII, Captain Forever is an Vector Shooter-RPG mixed with freebase crack, and I almost didn't finish a term paper last week because of the endless variety and soul-crushing difficulty behind every single randomly-generated level.
I just wanted better game podcasts. There are more games, lot's more, and deserves better. It has what gamers crave, it has electrolytes
The problem with that recently seems to be a time issue also. There is only so much time in the day to do things and with the recent move I see them having less time. One problem with pod casting is that it still has to be fun for the hosts. Scrim I suspect wouldn't do a podcast on a subject they didn't enjoy or enjoy tearing apart. Most pod casters I have listened to over the years didn't keep pod casting after it became a chore. There is many more gaming pod casts out there that cover these subjects. It's not that I wouldn't enjoy listening to a podcast on new games, but there are people out there covering it. I would look forward to them doing something on COD but again I'm guessing it's a time/money issue. You only have a limited budget and you spend it with the goal of maximum enjoyment for the money.
I agree with the time and money isssue, and I thought about how often they broadcast. Most podcasts do only 1 weekly one, which is loaded with content and this could be a leading contributor my original thought.
This is another example of debating a subjective matter. The OP didn't like the podcasts about games. It's subjective. Period. No point in attacking the OP for expressing a subjective opinion.
I agree Kilarney. Though I would still ask why they would hold an opinion on a certain subject because it was a little vague. I would question however statements that don't provide some links as backup if it sufficed. Full attack mode should be saved for threads that are up for debate. The situation should have been handled better like you said in earlier posts. Sometimes we are too quick to go into a full on attack without judging the situation.
I agree with the time and money isssue, and I thought about how often they broadcast. Most podcasts do only 1 weekly one, which is loaded with content and this could be a leading contributor my original thought.
I would also recommend Fast Karate For The Gentlemen for more game related discussion. They cover more games than Geeknights. The hosts are focused more on the subject and they play a variety rather than sticking with one type. The audio quality isn't always the best but it makes up for it in content. Scrim seem to focus more on board gaming, classic video games, current topics, and some anime here and there. I suspect that once they get settled in we will get some kind of reboot in the show.
The forum may be daunting at first but after awhile you get settled in. I was on the warning list when I first joined because of a few issues but after awhile learned how to react to certain situations. It's like the barrier to entry when entering any social group. You learn when you need to provide detail, what topics to avoid, and the various rules/doctrines that are imposed within the group. I mostly learned by sitting back and reading more than posting at first. After the warning of course.
Nah, his post wasn't that offensive, but I was a bit irked by the anime comment.
Same here, but Replace "Anime" with "Sound Quality" - and Still, All I did was point out that Geeknights is Godly-tier 99% of the time from a Sound production standpoint, and at the moment with skype, they're still not far short of that. Dude agreed with me, no worries. My other comment was more just pondering to nobody in particular.
Also, I'm going with Kilarney on this one too, bloke has a point.
If I understand a game and have mastered it, then there is no reason to ever play again except to teach or to prove my mastery.
This is why indie games utilizing procedural generation are the best ones out there right now. We all know about DFII, Captain Forever is an Vector Shooter-RPG mixed with freebase crack, and I almost didn't finish a term paper last week because of the endless variety and soul-crushing difficulty behind every single randomly-generated level.
No, that's why competitive games are the best out there right now. The best sources of novelty are other people.
Same here, but Replace "Anime" with "Sound Quality" - and Still, All I did was point out that Geeknights is Godly-tier 99% of the time from a Sound production standpoint, and at the moment with skype, they're still not far short of that. Dude agreed with me, no worries. My other comment was more just pondering to nobody in particular.
Your response was polite, Churba, and not the sort of thing being discouraged in this thread.
Comments
Can't really say anime is bad unless you watch a little of it. The animation is easy to see even with a trailer of it or a few minutes of the first episode. But the pacing and plot take a bit more.
With a game, well, as Rym said, you can't really judge it until you understand it. However, I kind of go farther than that and go by the initial categories: Replayability, Score, Graphics, Plot, Gameplay, etc. Stuff like that. I don't really go in with any specific needs or wants unless I've played a really well done game of the genre in the past and expect the same amount of work put into the categories as that particular game.
But yes, Xenophobia is bad. I was lucky I didn't get my head bitten off. XD
EDIT: Oh hey, more posts while I was writing mine. I'm pretty much ready to defend my likes and dislikes too.
Enjoying depictions of rape and enjoying a time waster are two very different subjects. Moreover, you are assuming that I would openly insult and repeatedly demean someone that did enjoy those images. You and Scott both enjoy manga that have messages, images, and content that I find equally disturbing, but I do not think you are perverts nor to I demean your character for enjoying this mangas.
EDIT: Let me clarify, I often agree with the opinion of Rym and Scott on these games, I just don't let my opinion of the game color my view of the person.
And the other major issue on this forum is that most members do not understand that at the end of the day, on social issues, reasonable people can disagree. People here tend to view the world is being entirely black or white. Maybe that's a symptom of people that are predominately involved in technology, where rules and outcomes are most often absolute.
It's too bad this person will probably not be coming back to the forum. I had a few questions for him, but never got to it.
Now they want to change the tone, they will need to do so by using their moderating powers and by setting a good example.
The problem I think is this. When the forum started, very few people had the good attitude of challenging and questioning everything. But since there was a very small percentage of such people, they stuck around. Over time, they have learned. Now almost the entire forum is awesome people who have learned to challenge and question as we. Someone entering the forum back in the day would receive maybe one or two challenges. Now someone posting a stupid first post will be challenged by the entire population of the forum.
I think the solution is to simply reduce the quantity. When a first poster makes their inevitably wrong statements, just one or maybe two people should engage them rather than everyone at once. A small handful of challenges are manageable, and they are likely to reply and continue to reply, and to learn. A whole threadful of challenges is not something a new person is equipped to handle, even if they are good people, or potential good people.
The moderation stick is not a subtle instrument, and will not solve this problem. It is only useful for eliminating edge cases, such as spammers. It is not capable of shifting the bell curve. I will continue to take my Wikipedia/crowd-sourced stance. If you want to change Wikipedia, you edit it. You are this community. If you want this community to change. Then you have to change you. It's not my job to change you. I'll just make sure you spell it correctly, and use commas.
And again, I've been guilty of all of this.
I should have started out thanking Scrym for entertaining me at work with putting in all the work they do just for my enjoyment.
I just wanted better gaming reviews, that's it pretty much. I just felt they skimmed on the gaming podcasts. There are lots of games out there to be reviewed. I've been playing Dragon Age, Modern Warefare, New Super Mario Bros., etc. I thought is was kind of wierd when they reviewed D&DO when it went free in October, and was a better game before and is 3+ years old.
I miss the show though, and am always wanting more podcasts to listen to, so I hope maybe this will spark something new in their mental que.
Just because you say "It's my opinion" doesn't make it polite. That's like saying "Cocaine should be legalized, just my opinion."
It has what gamers crave, it has electrolytes
The forum may be daunting at first but after awhile you get settled in. I was on the warning list when I first joined because of a few issues but after awhile learned how to react to certain situations. It's like the barrier to entry when entering any social group. You learn when you need to provide detail, what topics to avoid, and the various rules/doctrines that are imposed within the group. I mostly learned by sitting back and reading more than posting at first. After the warning of course.
Also, I'm going with Kilarney on this one too, bloke has a point.