I'm not sure if mine came off as hostile or not. I didn't really mean to be, but I'm known to have a tiny chip on my shoulder sometimes, so who knows. When I get riled up I go on rants. ^^;
I don't think most people were really offended. However, his original statement on anime (basically, "I haven't watched any because it sucks") was offensive because, although it is fine to dislike something, it is ignorant, and intellectually empty, to dislike it without knowing anything about it. That's no better than the Republican teabaggers over in the states.
As for anime, I find that 95% of anime I watched I did not enjoy. This was entirely subjective. No doubt there is good anime out there that I would enjoy. But with such a high failure rate, it was not worth the investment. Time is a commodity that I have precious little of. Again, this is entirely subjective. It may be "wrong" for you, but fortunately we don't live in a world where our tastes are homogenous.
Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. I put forth that, most likely, the main problem was that you picked the wrong anime.
Also, forum members, try reading this thread while ignoring loltsundere's posts - that's enough to make it fairly reasonable on balance.
I don't think most people were really offended. However, his original statement on anime (basically, "I haven't watched any because it sucks") was offensive because, although it is fine to dislike something, it is ignorant, and intellectually empty, to dislike it without knowing anything about it. That's no better than the Republican teabaggers over in the states.
Actually, he said "I have never watched anime because it's so slowly paced and poorly animated". I simply don't agree with this statement. More importantly, he also added "but because of your podcast I may check some of your suggestions out". Hooray! The geeknights podcast will hopefully open someone's eyes! Let's turn that "may" into a "will definitely"! If he had actually only said "I haven't watched any because it sucks", then I'd be upset too, I guess. He's no better then a Republican teabagger? Let's save that for when he actually watches Cowboy Bebop and hates it.
well I decided to come back and read the responses and YES, listen to the podcast still.
I should have started out thanking Scrym for entertaining me at work with putting in all the work they do just for my enjoyment.
I just wanted better gaming reviews, that's it pretty much. I just felt they skimmed on the gaming podcasts. There are lots of games out there to be reviewed. I've been playing Dragon Age, Modern Warefare, New Super Mario Bros., etc. I thought is was kind of wierd when they reviewed D&DO; when it went free in October, and was a better game before and is 3+ years old. Maybe an Aion review would have been more time sensitive, since I didn't play that I would have been more interested.
I miss the show though, and am always wanting more podcasts to listen to, so I hope maybe this will spark something new in their mental que.
Welcome back. I'm sorry if my post had any part in your near-dismissal of the show. In any online community, making your first post a large criticism of the community's fandom focus won't go over well. =/ You have to be more subtle, or at least include the things you like about the show in your post.
Initially, I only picked on the imaginary friend thing because I thought you were well-meaning. However, when you said you had expected a fan-backlash, I questioned as to whether you were a troll or not. It turns out you aren't, and you came back, so I'm glad.
I'll admit that I've been reluctant to participate in any of the discussions so far, either because I don't know enough on the subject (I don't watch much anime) or I didn't care to get savaged by people I don't even know. I like that the forum expects good grammer, spelling and debate skills, I don't care for the tone of some of the conversation, in the Obama thread for example. Maybe my first topic was a boring one for the crew here, but I was hoping for more than a sarcastic "slow news week huh" response.
I feel the same way. It's a bit of an unspoken rule here to say nothing strongly opinionated unless you're an expert in it. It's good for promoting thoughtful, reasoned opinions, but the punishment applied for a flimsy opinion is a bit harsh, and could end up driving a lot of people away before they get a chance to learn anything. I've kinda gotten around that rule by picking topics I know something about, and then asking questions to find out more. People here are more likely to respond well to that, because they enjoy rattling off what they know, lol. That way, I can learn, double-check what I've learned elsewhere, and decide to either keep or reformulate my own opinion.
Also, just for the record, the word "opinion" is not some magical defense against criticism. You can't go around saying "The world is flat, but that's just my opinion." Sorry, that's not an opinion, and you're going to get ripped a new one for saying it. Even when something does fall near the realm of opinion, it can still be an invalid opinion. For example you might say "I hate all museums, just my opinion." Well, that's possible, but what's more likely is that you are just a moron who has little experience with museums. There exists such a wide variety of museums on planet earth that it is incredibly unlikely that there isn't one you enjoy. I guess you can continue to hold an invalid opinion like that, but it's more a display of ignorance than an expression of taste.
And if something you have to say really and truly is just your opinion, who cares? My favorite color is green. That's true, and it's entirely within the realm of valid opinion. But who gives a crap? Real opinions are completely non-discussable. If you try to bounce off of them into something that is a good discussion, you rapidly leave the realm of opinion. "Why is green my favorite color?" psychology, biology, science...
Actually, you're wrong, Scott. Saying "My favorite color is green" is not an opinion. It is a fact. Your favorite color is green, not blue or red. An opinion would be "Green is the best color", or "Green sucks".
opinion - 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. 2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal. ...
Yes? I don't think you quite get what I'm trying to say. Let me clarify my last post. You see, lets take this statement:
"Green is my favorite color." -Scott
Now, since Scott's favorite color is green, saying his favorite color is blue would be false. Your favorite color may be proven psychologically or any other way you want, and just taken as a fact. His favorite color is green. Just like zomibe a gogo said. However, if you said "Green sucks", or "Blue is better", then those would be opinions. However, the guy saying that blue was better may have blue as his favorite color, which by it self- Person A's favorite color is blue- is true and a fact.
Whether or not you are correct, there is little point in debating such things. If someone says "I hate all anime," why debate them? It's a waste of breath.
And frankly, I think you can legitimately hate all anime or museums. For example, if you genuinely hate animation as a medium, then you would hate all anime. If it's okay to hate the color green, then it's okay to hate watching animation.
It's not that he said "I hate all anime". What he said was pretty much equivalent to "I hate all museums because there is barf on the floor in all of them and they're all painted black." An opinion is one thing. A foundation on blatant ignorance and generalized assumption is something entirely different.
opinion - 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. 2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal. ...
Yes? I don't think you quite get what I'm trying to say. Let me clarify my last post. You see, lets take this statement:
"Green is my favorite color." -Scott
Now, since Scott's favorite color is green, saying his favorite color is blue would be false. Your favorite color may be proven psychologically or any other way you want, and just taken as a fact. His favorite color is green. Just like zomibe a gogo said. However, if you said "Green sucks", or "Blue is better", then those would be opinions. However, the guy saying that blue was better may have blue as his favorite color, which by it self- Person A's favorite color is blue- is true and a fact.
Fact and opinion are not mutually exclusive. If Scott says green is his favourite colour, then this is probably what Scott believes and is his opinion, and is also most likely a fact (However, note that it is possible that Scott doesn't actually know what his favourite colour actually is).
I don't think most people were really offended. However, his original statement on anime (basically, "I haven't watched any because it sucks") was offensive because, although it is fine to dislike something, it is ignorant, and intellectually empty, to dislike it without knowing anything about it. That's no better than the Republican teabaggers over in the states.
Actually, he said "I have never watched anime because it's so slowly paced and poorly animated". I simply don't agree with this statement. More importantly, he also added "but because of your podcast I may check some of your suggestions out". Hooray! The geeknights podcast will hopefully open someone's eyes! Let's turn that "may" into a "will definitely"! If he had actually only said "I haven't watched any because it sucks", then I'd be upset too, I guess. He's no better then a Republican teabagger? Let's save that for when he actually watches Cowboy Bebop and hates it.
Yeah, I said "basically" to note that it wasn't verbatim. You're right though, Mankoon, the fact that he said "but because of your podcast I may check some of your suggestions out" was worth noting. As for the Republican teabagger thing, I disagree. As much of a travesty as it would be to dislike Cowboy Bebop after watching it, that can't be compared to the teabaggers because it is no longer speaking from ignorance.
And frankly, I think you can legitimately hate all anime or museums. For example, if you genuinely hate animation as a medium, then you would hate all anime. If it's okay to hate the color green, then it's okay to hate watching animation.
It is possible, and okay, to hate watching animation. However, experience has shown me that pretty much every single person who has ever claimed to dislike all animation, books, type of food, or any other broad category is almost guaranteed to have effectively no experience with said category. They are basing their opinion upon a false understanding, stereotype, and/or prejudice.
I have never met a single person who has expressed a dislike for a broad category who also has a great deal of experience with said category. Anyone who has experience with something will be able to tell you which items in that category they like, and which they do not like.
Take for example romance novels. Will I ever read one? It's actually pretty unlikely. Will I buy one? Even less likely. However, you won't catch me saying "I hate all romance novels," or "romance novels are all shit". I know that in general, the genre doesn't really appeal to me. I'm also smart enough to know that there is such a large quantity of romance novels in existence, with more being written every day. I think it's actually a safe assumption that there are at least a handful that I would probably like, if I read them. Of course, I don't know which ones those are, and I'm not really going to try to find out. Regardless, I am aware that my knowledge of romance novels is really only limited to the stereotypical trash I see in the supermarket and the used book stores. I think it's safe to say that many of those books fit that stereotype, I have evidence of such (Dragon Heat). But I'm not going to make any ingnorant statements because of that.
If I make a statement like "All romance novels suck," I'm not only stating my dislike, I'm also inferring that I am familiar enough with the genre that I am qualified to make that statement. If I am not familiar enough with the genre, then my opinion really isn't valid, because I don't know WTF I'm talking about.
It's really easy to avoid this problem. Let's say you've only read two romance novels, and they were really really bad. You have no interest in reading anymore. That's perfectly fine. Just don't say something stupid like "All romance novels are stupid." Instead say, "I read these two romance novels, they sucked donkey balls. I know I enjoy sci-fi a lot more, so I'm not really willing to invest my time and money into trying more romance novels anytime soon, if ever." If you say that, nobody will bother you. At the minimum, they might suggest a good romance novel.
Actually, I have another example, Star Wars novels. I like Star Wars, but I really have no interesting in the novels at all. I haven't really read that many of them, so I can't say for sure that they all suck. However, I read the Thrawn Trilogy by Timothy Zahn, which is regarded by fans of Star Wars novels as the absolute best. I found it to be ever so slightly above average. If I found what fans consider to be amazing to be slightly above average, then I think I am justified in ignoring all of the others.
And one more thing. There is a difference between medium and genre. If you make an ignorant statement about a medium, that is exponentially more ignorant than making a statement about a genre. For example, if you say that all movies suck, that is far more ignorant than saying all teen comedies suck. There is a pretty good possibility that a person will dislike all or most of the works within a specific genre. It is incredibly unlikely that someone can dislike an entire medium. It's really almost impossible to dislike movies, period.
With anime and manga in particular, many people perceive them to be genres. Someone who is not from Japan is very unlikely to have a lot of experience with either of these. The result is that they will come to view them as matching the big-eyes small mouth magical girl stereotype. They will not realize that anime and manga are mediums with works spanning countless genres. Manga in particular covers far more genres than most mediums I can think of. So to make sweeping statements about either of those mediums is particularly extra-ignorant if you do not have sufficient experience with them to validate such an opinion.
One more thing. Here is a great TED Talk by Chimamanda Adichie called The Danger of a Single Story. She talks about how stereotypes are actually true. The problem is that stereotypes are only one story. Pick any thing, any people, any person in the world, and there are many stories to tell about them. But what often happens is that people who are far away from something, only hear one story. For example, someone hears the story of poverty in Africa, and they rarely, if ever, hear other stories about Africa. The result is that they believe all of Africa is poverty because they don't know anything else about it. The stereotype of poverty is true, there is great poverty there. But it is not the only story.
This same thing happens to geekeries quite often. People hear just one story about geekeries, and now that becomes the only story. They might hear the story about the video game addiction or video game violence story they will have a false understanding and form invalid and ignorant opinions that need to be challenged. If there is something you think you dislike, be it animation, computer programming, reading actual books, or anything else that other people like, ask yourself how many different stories you know about that thing. Also, watch the TED talk.
I think you're being too technical. I would not begrudge any intelligent person that said they "hated romance novels." I wouldn't care if they liked them, either. I think there are plenty of smart people that really do hate romance novels - even if there are one or two out there they would like. Informal speech shouldn't have to be hyper-techincal. Poetic license is fine.
Comments
Also, forum members, try reading this thread while ignoring loltsundere's posts - that's enough to make it fairly reasonable on balance.
I'm sorry if my post had any part in your near-dismissal of the show.
In any online community, making your first post a large criticism of the community's fandom focus won't go over well. =/ You have to be more subtle, or at least include the things you like about the show in your post.
Initially, I only picked on the imaginary friend thing because I thought you were well-meaning. However, when you said you had expected a fan-backlash, I questioned as to whether you were a troll or not. It turns out you aren't, and you came back, so I'm glad.
I feel the same way. It's a bit of an unspoken rule here to say nothing strongly opinionated unless you're an expert in it. It's good for promoting thoughtful, reasoned opinions, but the punishment applied for a flimsy opinion is a bit harsh, and could end up driving a lot of people away before they get a chance to learn anything.
I've kinda gotten around that rule by picking topics I know something about, and then asking questions to find out more. People here are more likely to respond well to that, because they enjoy rattling off what they know, lol. That way, I can learn, double-check what I've learned elsewhere, and decide to either keep or reformulate my own opinion.
And if something you have to say really and truly is just your opinion, who cares? My favorite color is green. That's true, and it's entirely within the realm of valid opinion. But who gives a crap? Real opinions are completely non-discussable. If you try to bounce off of them into something that is a good discussion, you rapidly leave the realm of opinion. "Why is green my favorite color?" psychology, biology, science...
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
...
"Green is my favorite color." -Scott
Now, since Scott's favorite color is green, saying his favorite color is blue would be false. Your favorite color may be proven psychologically or any other way you want, and just taken as a fact. His favorite color is green. Just like zomibe a gogo said. However, if you said "Green sucks", or "Blue is better", then those would be opinions. However, the guy saying that blue was better may have blue as his favorite color, which by it self- Person A's favorite color is blue- is true and a fact.
Whether or not you are correct, there is little point in debating such things. If someone says "I hate all anime," why debate them? It's a waste of breath.
And frankly, I think you can legitimately hate all anime or museums. For example, if you genuinely hate animation as a medium, then you would hate all anime. If it's okay to hate the color green, then it's okay to hate watching animation.
As for the Republican teabagger thing, I disagree. As much of a travesty as it would be to dislike Cowboy Bebop after watching it, that can't be compared to the teabaggers because it is no longer speaking from ignorance.
I have never met a single person who has expressed a dislike for a broad category who also has a great deal of experience with said category. Anyone who has experience with something will be able to tell you which items in that category they like, and which they do not like.
Take for example romance novels. Will I ever read one? It's actually pretty unlikely. Will I buy one? Even less likely. However, you won't catch me saying "I hate all romance novels," or "romance novels are all shit". I know that in general, the genre doesn't really appeal to me. I'm also smart enough to know that there is such a large quantity of romance novels in existence, with more being written every day. I think it's actually a safe assumption that there are at least a handful that I would probably like, if I read them. Of course, I don't know which ones those are, and I'm not really going to try to find out. Regardless, I am aware that my knowledge of romance novels is really only limited to the stereotypical trash I see in the supermarket and the used book stores. I think it's safe to say that many of those books fit that stereotype, I have evidence of such (Dragon Heat). But I'm not going to make any ingnorant statements because of that.
If I make a statement like "All romance novels suck," I'm not only stating my dislike, I'm also inferring that I am familiar enough with the genre that I am qualified to make that statement. If I am not familiar enough with the genre, then my opinion really isn't valid, because I don't know WTF I'm talking about.
It's really easy to avoid this problem. Let's say you've only read two romance novels, and they were really really bad. You have no interest in reading anymore. That's perfectly fine. Just don't say something stupid like "All romance novels are stupid." Instead say, "I read these two romance novels, they sucked donkey balls. I know I enjoy sci-fi a lot more, so I'm not really willing to invest my time and money into trying more romance novels anytime soon, if ever." If you say that, nobody will bother you. At the minimum, they might suggest a good romance novel.
Actually, I have another example, Star Wars novels. I like Star Wars, but I really have no interesting in the novels at all. I haven't really read that many of them, so I can't say for sure that they all suck. However, I read the Thrawn Trilogy by Timothy Zahn, which is regarded by fans of Star Wars novels as the absolute best. I found it to be ever so slightly above average. If I found what fans consider to be amazing to be slightly above average, then I think I am justified in ignoring all of the others.
And one more thing. There is a difference between medium and genre. If you make an ignorant statement about a medium, that is exponentially more ignorant than making a statement about a genre. For example, if you say that all movies suck, that is far more ignorant than saying all teen comedies suck. There is a pretty good possibility that a person will dislike all or most of the works within a specific genre. It is incredibly unlikely that someone can dislike an entire medium. It's really almost impossible to dislike movies, period.
With anime and manga in particular, many people perceive them to be genres. Someone who is not from Japan is very unlikely to have a lot of experience with either of these. The result is that they will come to view them as matching the big-eyes small mouth magical girl stereotype. They will not realize that anime and manga are mediums with works spanning countless genres. Manga in particular covers far more genres than most mediums I can think of. So to make sweeping statements about either of those mediums is particularly extra-ignorant if you do not have sufficient experience with them to validate such an opinion.
This same thing happens to geekeries quite often. People hear just one story about geekeries, and now that becomes the only story. They might hear the story about the video game addiction or video game violence story they will have a false understanding and form invalid and ignorant opinions that need to be challenged. If there is something you think you dislike, be it animation, computer programming, reading actual books, or anything else that other people like, ask yourself how many different stories you know about that thing. Also, watch the TED talk.