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GeekNights 20100119 - Street Fighting Secrets
Tonight on GeekNights Scott learns that part of being good at Street Fighter isn't just reflexes, but knowing secrets the game doesn't tell you. In the news, there is going to be a SEGA Genesis emulator for the iPhone, and PAX East is selling out.
Comments
We'll see. If I buy the stick, there's no turning back. One cannot turn away from gnosis.
A good example of this can be found on YouTube. Go search for videos of doing the SFIV trials. You will find many videos. Many videos even have the players showing their hands, so you can learn it. Very nice! The problem is people only show hands for the hard trials. One guy made videos of the normal trials, but he said "I'm not showing my hands, this is all obvious." It's not obvious to nubs fool!
Again, the easiest example here is the concept of canceling. Every guide lets you know that canceling exists. They tell you that you have to buffer moves. You can interrupt the animation of one move, with another move.
That is not enough information! Here I will write for you an acceptable and noob-friendly explanation of one particular cancel I have learned. Take special note of how fucking long this description is, and how much excruciating detail I go into. This is the level of detail necessary for newbs to actually understand this game. Remember, if you tell a newb down, down-forward, forward, punch, that is not enough information for 90% of people to be able to learn to do a hadouken.
Also, keep in mind that if I were not just about to go to work, videos should be included with this showing on-screen and hands. For a guide to be truly complete and noob friendly, they would need descriptions like this for EVERY cancel, as well as many other unexplained things like counters, combos, links, etc.
M. Bison - Knee Press to Knee Press Knightmare Cancel
In order to do M. Bison's Knee Press special attack you have to charge back for two seconds then go forward with a punch.
This means you must first hold the stick away from the opponent for two seconds on the game clock. You don't have to be on the ground holding straight back. You can be crouch-blocking. You can be punching and kicking the opponent, you can even be jumping. To jump at the opponent all you need to do is tap up and forward. you don't need to keep the stick there, you're already jumping. That means you can tap up and forward to initiate a jump, then immediately move the stick to a back position to begin charging. Just keep holding the charge while you jump-kick and then ground-hit the opponent, for a second, and the move will be ready to unleash.
After you have been holding the charge long enough, at any time you can release by pressing forward quickly and immediately followed by a kick button. Any kick button will work. The stronger the kick, the longer the range, the more damage, and the slower the move will execute. You could press two kicks simultaneously to do an EX attack, but that will subtract a section of your meter. To do this cancel, you need a full super meter, so do not do an EX attack.
In order to do M. BIson's super attack, the Knee Press Nightmare, you also need to charge for two seconds. The only difference is that you do not simply press forward quickly followed by a kick. You press forward, then back, then forward, and then the kick. You must do it quickly for it to work, but don't try to do it too quickly. I like to do it to the appropriate rhythm of Bheethoven's 5th. Charge then : forward back forward kick.... dum dum dum dummmmmmm....
Now what about the canceling? If you do a regular knee press that hits, or is blocked, the animation of it is a little slower because it takes slight pauses to show you the hits or blocks. This can be "canceled" allowing you to get one hit off with a regular knee press then have it immediately become a kneee press knightmare, mid-stream! If the first one hits, the rest are going to hit in combo, so this is a pretty powerful attack.
The thing is, you can't possibly imagine how this is possible. After you do one knee press you need to charge for two seconds again to do a knee press nightmare. You definitely do not have two seconds between releasing one knee press and landing the first hit to even execute the super, let alone charge it.
The secret is that you don't have to charge again. You can execute both moves with just one charge. Think of this not as a combination of two moves, but as a third, undocumented move. In order to make it happen, you do not execute both of these moves in sequence. You merge them into a single move. It goes something like this.
Charge back for two seconds. Forward. Kick. Back. Forward. Kick.
Here's an easier way to think about it. First learn to do a normal knee press. If you're super meter is full, and your knee press hits or is blocked (you don't just "whiff" and kick the air) you can do two knee presses in a row, but the second knee press requires no charging. You just have to tap back and you will get a "free charge". Execute this as if it were just one move, not two. If you think about it being two separate moves, you will mess it up. It's just one move that happens to combine two moves on the screen.
Another way to think about it is that it is exactly the same as the knee press nightmare move. However, you just press kick one extra time in the middle of it, and a normal knee press will happen in the middle of your super.
[[Video of hands so people can learn the timing]]
[[Video of move on screen, so people can verify if they've done it correctly]]
I never thought I was operating from a wholly differing set of basics. This gnosis only seems so amazing because it's written down. Ok, that's a lie...it IS a really good to have in your skill set, but no different than learning the nuances of any other genre. For instance, the holding a button down for move chains and specials is seen in GH/RB. It's not SO epic; you're making me feel like a douche for how I learned.
Street Fighter, however, makes it the game. It's too much to leave undocumented.
BTW if you can't do the 360 moves, just jump forward and do the 360 while on the jump (you don't have to do it really fast so don't worry), just press or release the button/s at the end of the jump.
In fact, all the episodes you've done so far this year have been really good. I guess that's what comes from boosting your energy and enthusiasm.
I'd like to hear more on the podcast about Rym's reasons for not buying a house out in Beacon and instead moving to the city. I can guess why, but it would be good to hear his new geek-house plans or lack of them.
Rym; That's another thing. It doesn't make the game, it makes the genre. From SF, the KOF, To BB, to GG, to even 3d fighters. There are details and specialities hidden in several kinds of games. It is sounding like you almost have a sense like you deserve to know everything from the start. I can't agree with that. Yes it would help the base level of skill for gamers rise, but how many people would be motivated to go through that much research for a game? Only those that are into it. Maybe I'm sounding elitist, but by having it not written out in a sense you are fostering the community to have to learn with each other. I dunno, I'm rambling now and have lost my point. Chase the answer to prove you want it or something.
The normal stick is nothing to sneeze at though. It's got problems, but it's still way better than a gamepad.
These are the ones.
Also, these sticks are PC and 360 compatible. They are also easily opened and modded. Even if you don't go hardcore in fighting games, you can use them for MAME. You can use them for controlling robots you make. You can use them for all sorts of things. I bought the tournament stick, and I plan to have it for the rest of my life.
It's OK for a game to keep information secret. For example, you don't show your hand to other players in poker. That's what we call an imperfect information game. Chess is a perfect information game, because there is no secret information. Everyone can see everything. Advance Wars can be both, depending on whether or not you turn on fog of war.
It is NOT OK for a game to keep rules secret. Imagine playing Monopoly, but it doesn't say anywhere that you get $200 for passing Go. One person at the table figures it out. Now they are collecting $200, but nobody else is. Or let's say you're playing football, and one team just doesn't know about field goals. They sort of figure it out when they see the other team start kicking them, but they don't have anyone on the team trained to kick them.
Just to make one more example, think of the Legend of Zelda. It's ok that Zelda doesn't tell you the exact locations of secret bushes to burn or rocks to bomb. However, the game does tell you that you are able to burn bushes and bomb rocks. If the game didn't tell you that bushes were burnable and rocks were bombable, that would be keeping a rule secret, which is bullshit.
In Street Fighter, it's ok to keep information secret. It would be ok if I didn't know which character the other player was choosing. It's ok that I don't know what move the other person is about to do. It's not ok that the game doesn't tell you that it is possible to dash out of a focus attack. That's keeping a rule secret, and it's bullshit.
It's strange that you mention the Zelda example, because I learned all of those on my own as a child. And if I recall most of them were bonuses that weren't needed to complete the game, but were to Complete (with all the secrets ..if there are any) it. We are coming from two different viewpoints in gaming where I see the learning of secrets and tricks on your own as something to be proud of and cheer about, you see it as the game being obtrusive and setting up barriers to entry. Isn't it kind of telling that games should tell you how to play them 'completely' and not leave you anything to learn on your own?
Roboto; Quicker rotations become easier with full on joysticks. Takes practice, but Hold FP (rotate) release FP. With proper timing (rotate within animation, hold while rotating, release after rotation), this example is a good way to show why play on a joystick despite the ease of using a controller.
Also, I feel that fighting games leave incredibly vast amounts of information out that are crucial to even doing basic movements. I understand though how tedious and annoying it would be to write them out in a manual. Also, It is unlikely most people would actually read the manual considering how tedious it would be to convey the concepts using text. There should be in game tutorials showing you essential game concepts being preformed while also having a split screen of example hands on a controller doing the same actions. This would save money on printing long manuals that no one would use and would be much easier to learn from. It probably wouldn't take that long to make and include either.
As far as hidden information is concerned. I am a very avid fighting game player and only recently learned about "option selecting". Which involves buffering in two commands while either in block stun or attacking, and the game "chooses" for you the best of the two options. This is essential for high level play and brings incredible depth to the game and I never knew about it. I have read many fighting game tutorials and never seen it referenced. I only found out about it by accident by watching a tournament video and hearing the announcers mention that the one player should have "option selected" a different move. Considering the praise you give to skill based/reaction games like team fortress, I think Street Fighter would be right up your ally.
Also with the focus attack the length you hold it dictates how long you stun the opponent. As the manual says: Level 1 of the focus attack does normal damage, and will crumple an enemy if it is a counter hit. Level 2 crumples the opponent, and level 3 is unblockable and crumples the opponent.
Also, even though the manual might say these things, I highly doubt it describes them in enough detail for an absolute newb to learn them.
Humor me and find the instructions in the manual on how to do a hadouken. D, DF, F, P is not enough! Shoryuken is even worse. No newb is going to understand the 'Z' motion. When I was a kid playing SF2CE on Genesis, I knew that a Shoryuken was F, D, DF, P. Still, I was never able to do them with any reliability, even in the arcade. It was basically random. I blame the inadequate instructions because thanks to Youtube and such I was finally able to get it down. Because it only required instruction, and not practice, it's not a skill, it's knowledge.