From a marketing standpoint it irreversibly links the universes. Maybe not ballsy to hardcore fighters who focus completely on the system, but I'm a bit of a lore nerd when it comes to fighters. S'why I really don't care for SF4. Because I am like a jilted girlfriend who won't let SF3 go. Sean is awesome. Oh and KoF lore back in the 90s coupled with SF2 rehashing pretty much made me ignore Capcom when it came to fighting games for...hey over a decade now. Proving it's a genre thing and not a game thing even more, all the secrets of SF that R&S discussed, I learned of from other fighting games. I never even thought of SF having such complexity (remember, I was ignoring Capcom since MvC2) as all the other fighters. Hm, I really didn't think that assumption out, did I?
I think that Street fighter got into all this whole complicated deal around Street Fighter Alpha. Maybe before that, but I'm without the aid of wikipedia at the moment.
I don't care about all that complicated, super elite stuff. I just go headfirst, and hopefully learn enough about my opponent before I'm beaten in two rounds.
I didn't see that it was mentioned, so if you're interested check out I Got Next which is a free to download (or stream) documentary on the top players on the east and west coast going at it. You wont learn anything that will help you become a good player, but you'll see just how serious this sport we call Street Fighter is.
I've been amazed at all the people who actually study this stuff. For me, it's just about fun with fighting games. Leave the elite strategy for an RTS or a God game.
I've been amazed at all the people who actually study this stuff. For me, it's just about fun with fighting games. Leave the elite strategy for an RTS or a God game.
I don't plan to become a god of Street Fighter, or anything. I just want to get to a level where I can play in console free play and actually get some hits in. Maybe win some rounds.
Also, it's not so much about whether or not you should try to learn elite strategy. It's that such a large component of so-called elite strategy is just secrets that should just be told to everybody.
I've been amazed at all the people who actually study this stuff. For me, it's just about fun with fighting games. Leave the elite strategy for an RTS or a God game.
I don't plan to become a god of Street Fighter, or anything. I just want to get to a level where I can play in console free play and actually get some hits in. Maybe win some rounds.
Also, it's not so much about whether or not you should try to learn elite strategy. It's that such a large component of so-called elite strategy is just secrets that should just be told to everybody.
To beat the VAST majority of people you don't need to get anywhere near a god level. My Honda that I practiced for a week to learn how to activate hundred hand slap from a jab can beat 70-80% of players I see online. Most people don't go beyond jumping in with a hard kick, ducking medium kick, shoryuken. If your taking this semi seriously you should rapidly get to a point where if you go to a public showing you will beat 80% of people you encounter. Its the point from intermediate to mastery that takes an increadible amount of time and practice that is unlikely you will bother with.
If your taking this semi seriously you should rapidly get to a point where if you go to a public showing you will beat 80% of people you encounter. Its the point from intermediate to mastery that takes an increadible amount of time and practice that is unlikely you will bother with.
This has been my experience. A few weeks of reading up and practicing, and now only one of my friends can give me a fight.
I think I very may well be at a point where I can just beat most of my friends every time, but not all. Also, I can hardly beat anyone online.
Do you count Jason as a friend? if you do your wrong :-p (was playing him last night, I'm getting better myself so I wouldn't make claims you can't hold up)
Plus have you learned how to defeat the Ryu Medium kick into a sweep kick :-p
Also, other then me, do you have any other crew playing?
Do you count Jason as a friend? if you do your wrong :-p (was playing him last night, I'm getting better myself so I wouldn't make claims you can't hold up)
...but not all...
Plus have you learned how to defeat the Ryu Medium kick into a sweep kick :-p
Yeah, I practiced the advice on getting up, so I can do the focus backdash cancel.
Still if the only people playing the game out of the crew (extended) is Bruce, Jason and myself. I guess you can make the claim that you would beat your friends who are not playing but it's kind of a meaningless statement ;-p
Still if the only people playing the game out of the crew (extended) is Bruce, Jason and myself. I guess you can make the claim that you would beat your friends who are not playing but it's kind of a meaningless statement ;-p
Well, none of you are professionals. So maybe I will keep practicing until I can beat you guys most of the time, and then that will be my measuring stick.
Do you guys play on XBox/Windows Live, or in-person?
...or perhaps PSN, hopefully?
Both. Xbox(Xbox live actually tends to function much better then Windows Live in my experience, though the lag advice still applies for throws) Windows live is sorta lame the lag prevents you from doing proper combos half the time. You end up having to use "lag" tactics. Like doing combos that involve as few links as possible (non canceled connecting moves) as a lag spike or someone with a slow computer on the other end will ruin your timing. Also, you have to predictively counter throw people because you can't counter throws on reaction with 3 bars or less connection. Making throws much more powerful online then they're supposed to be. (Good tip for you Scott, 3 bar or less game try to use more throws they will be harder to tech.)
In person is where its at. Though that only happens once every few weeks for me. With the one guy that I know that's any good at the game.
Do you guys play on XBox/Windows Live, or in-person?
...or perhaps PSN, hopefully?
I do it on my PSN, and today I got my first win online since I had to format my PS3 due to a mistake that I did while running Linux :S I am chronocross_xp on the PSN by the way.
Better than me! Also, I"m pretty sure that PC players can fight against 360 players online.
Nope. I only know of one game that is cross platform and Street Fighter 4 isn't it. Why don't they have it cross platform? It is very annoying having a limited number of people to play against when I know there is 10 times the install base on console. I would think making the game cross platform would increase PC sales.
Edit* Also my tag is "J RAGE 9000" for Windows Live.
I just jumped back into the game this weekend, and after reading some of the articles posted here and practicing a bit in the training mode, I found that my overall win rate increased a bit to about 50%. My PSN name is also Colombianshadow for anyone looking for a match :-)
Ok, so I've gotten a lot better, but I still suck. I just can't beat the game on Medium-Hard. I can get to Seth (can't beat him more than one round). Also, it takes multiple tries to beat Rufus, Zangief, or C. Viper. Everyone else I take out like a chump.
I know that it's time to ask for more help because I'm convinced that either the computer is cheating, or there are more secrets to be learned. Here are my questions.
1) Can really good players beat the game on hard no problem, or is it accepted that the computer just cheats and is impossible? I just want to make sure I'm not thinking I suck because I can't do something that's nobody else can do either.
2) Does the computer cheat, and really good players win anyway? I ask if the computer cheats because it seems as if it is pulling off moves faster than it is possible to input them. I'm not even talking about stuff like cancels. I'm talking about using ultras as counter-attacks in the middle of my combo.
3) When two attacks hit each other, what determines who wins? It seems like every time my attack hits someone else's either they just win, or at best we both get hit. The only time I seem to catch a break is if I do an EX Attack. The thing is, sometimes even an EX attack is no good. I tried doing a regular head stomp, but then EXing the fist afterward, and it was countered with an uppercut!
4) I've gotten better at standing up and beating Abel, but I still have a problem against Zangief. If I try to stand up with EX Head stomp, that's ok. If I don't have EX meter... I'm in trouble. I can try to stand up with a focus attack cancel dash, or just a focus attack, but he always uses the magic green hand which breaks armor. I can try to stand up with a throw, but he uses his special move throws immediately as soon as I stand up, which put me on the ground again. I can't block, because he'll also throw. I can't attack normally, because then he can do whatever he wants.
5) Is Bison's Ultra just shit? Against various people I would do the ultra, even juggling people into it like you're supposed to. Then they would immediately do their ultra, and I would miss and they would hit. This would happen even if they were right in front of me. I thought it was because whoever goes second wins. So the next time someone tried their ultra while in range, I did mine. Theirs still won.
I really have a hard time against people who just don't let up and keep pounding me. If I try to counter, I open myself up and get punished. Even an EX focus or scissor won't turn the tide, because they always use an armor-breaking attack. If I block, I can defend for awhile, but they will eventually just use a throw, or an EX/focus of their own and force me to unblock. Once I'm unblocked, I'm done. The worst is seth when he kicks you and you just spin around like Top Man.
I've been trying to just sneak a jab in at the right moment to open them up and then unleash a combo. The problem is that when I do open them up, I can't do enough damage before they start up again. What's the best way for me to really punish someone when I actually get them. It seems like I do get a chance two or three times a fight, but I'm unable to really make the most of it beyond a few hits and one or two special moves. What do I have to do to torture the other guy and make it so they are the ones who can't figure out how to stand up?
Lastly, what's the best thing out there to record videos? Is is still that FRAPS thing? Is something else better/cheaper? I'd rather not pay money.
Lastly, what's the best thing out there to record videos? Is is still that FRAPS thing? Is something else better/cheaper? I'd rather not pay money.
Fraps is widely considered the best, although it does cost some money for a full license (which is worth it IMHO if you plan on recording a lot of video). Additionally, the new version allows you to record regular Windows 7 desktop activities so it's not just for games anymore.
Fraps is widely considered the best, although it does cost some money for a full license (which is worth it IMHO if you plan on recording a lot of video). Additionally, the new version allows you to record regular Windows 7 desktop activities so it's not just for games anymore.
Looks like I'll get it. Can it record me voicing over the video?
Fraps is widely considered the best, although it does cost some money for a full license (which is worth it IMHO if you plan on recording a lot of video). Additionally, the new version allows you to record regular Windows 7 desktop activities so it's not just for games anymore.
Looks like I'll get it. Can it record me voicing over the video?
Yup, and depending on the settings it can record your voice and in-game sound simultaneously..
1) Can really good players beat the game on hard no problem, or is it accepted that the computer just cheats and is impossible? I just want to make sure I'm not thinking I suck because I can't do something that's nobody else can do either.
Beating the computer takes a different skill set then beating a human opponent. You actually develop bad habits beating computer at high difficulties. It's good for practice when you don't know what your doing but I suggest trying to take on people on live soon if your finding the computer is becoming to tedious.
2) Does the computer cheat, and really good players win anyway? I ask if the computer cheats because it seems as if it is pulling off moves faster than it is possible to input them. I'm not even talking about stuff like cancels. I'm talking about using ultras as counter-attacks in the middle of my combo.
Computer does not break any game rules but it can do inputs instantaneously that are not charge moves and it has perfect information. So in a sense its as close to cheating as possible.
3) When two attacks hit each other, what determines who wins? It seems like every time my attack hits someone else's either they just win, or at best we both get hit. The only time I seem to catch a break is if I do an EX Attack. The thing is, sometimes even an EX attack is no good. I tried doing a regular head stomp, but then EXing the fist afterward, and it was countered with an uppercut!
Hit Boxes. That article should answer your question. If your still confused ask for clarification.
4) I've gotten better at standing up and beating Abel, but I still have a problem against Zangief. If I try to stand up with EX Head stomp, that's ok. If I don't have EX meter... I'm in trouble. I can try to stand up with a focus attack cancel dash, or just a focus attack, but he always uses the magic green hand which breaks armor. I can try to stand up with a throw, but he uses his special move throws immediately as soon as I stand up, which put me on the ground again. I can't block, because he'll also throw. I can't attack normally, because then he can do whatever he wants.
Computer is playing a guessing game with you. Unfortunately the computer has an advantage. Try back teleporting. Against Zangief I believe your teleport will escape all his wake up options unless hes jumping over you.
5) Is Bison's Ultra just shit? Against various people I would do the ultra, even juggling people into it like you're supposed to. Then they would immediately do their ultra, and I would miss and they would hit. This would happen even if they were right in front of me. I thought it was because whoever goes second wins. So the next time someone tried their ultra while in range, I did mine. Theirs still won.
Hitboxes. Also, in general charge Ultra's are less useful then normal Ultra's. So you will feel impotent compared to other characters often. But, Bison's Ultra can hit of a focus crumple without even dash canceling, and it can combo of air juggle so it is still a decent Ultra.
I've been trying to just sneak a jab in at the right moment to open them up and then unleash a combo. The problem is that when I do open them up, I can't do enough damage before they start up again. What's the best way for me to really punish someone when I actually get them. It seems like I do get a chance two or three times a fight, but I'm unable to really make the most of it beyond a few hits and one or two special moves. What do I have to do to torture the other guy and make it so they are the ones who can't figure out how to stand up?
Against computer you probably can't. Its more about exploiting errors. For people...
Knock em to the floor and play mix up games on wake up. With Bison your main tools are. 1. c.lk X3 into knee press. Knocks down on hit and safe on block. 2. Standing roundhouse poke. (one stop shop to beat Zangief) 3. Focus dash. Your forward focus dash is incredibly fast and goes incredibly far. Use it to blow through fireballs and combo opponents. Also, throw in random focus attacks into forward dash on block strings instead of knee presses. This will keep up pressure and if your opponent attempted to counter poke you just opened them up. 4. Jumping mk. This move is a very good cross up. Jump just over your opponent and use it to force them to block backwards. This will mess up many anti air moves and will confuse your opponent allowing you a greater chance to hit them. 5. Ex head stomp. If you expect your opponent will do a high priority move on wake up throw this out. It will beat nearly everything and leave you fairly safe. 6. Throw. Never forget the power of a normal grab. Throw it in randomly on wake up and in block strings.
I played a bunch against real people tonight. I was much better than before. I actually won some rounds against really good people. I also actually won enough actual matches that I have a few hundred BPs. Even so, I'm maybe about half as skilled as I want to be. Also, the really skilled players were able to just rip me to shreds. I am proud though that nobody was able to beat me by just doing repeated standing jabs with Ryu like they were before.
I've also figured out how to catch people with the super or ultra. No need to juggle them into the air first. I can just wait until someone whiffs on a jump kick and "catch" them in the air with the correct timing. Got a few ultra finishes that way.
Also, the EX head stomp is the only reason I can even do anything at all. Without that, I got nothing.
Lastly, the people who really beat me are the ones who just come with a fast and furious non-stop attack. It's so fast I can't even think fast enough to get any space in. I can't even just block and wait because they mix in the EX and throws that break through.
The craziest thing I saw was some guy hit me with a few normals, then a hurricane kick canceled into a shoryuken canceled into the super fireball. That's just fuckin' criminal.
I've also figured out how to catch people with the super or ultra. No need to juggle them into the air first. I can just wait until someone whiffs on a jump kick and "catch" them in the air with the correct timing. Got a few ultra finishes that way.
In training practice getting the ultra off focus as well. This is a very useful method to land your Ultra and is nice to have in your tool box. For that matter how often are you landing focus attacks? On low/intermediate level opponents you should be able to nail one once every 3 rounds at least. If your not using them then this is the key your missing to getting to the next level of play with Bison.
1. Do quick Focus attack into dash cancels on block strings instead of doing knee presses once in a while to throw your opponent off. You can hold it for a fraction of a second to try to bait a poke jab, then release and get a counter hit crumple. Or you can release it immediately and just dash cancel afterwords to keep up pressure. If you do this randomly and sparingly so your opponent isn't used to it you will like the results. Practice doing block strings on an all block dummy in training mode. 2. Use focus attack as an anti air once in a while. Don't do it all the time as your opponent will get used to it and may try to bait you into focusing to punish you. Hold focus, wait for the Armour to break from your opponents air attack, then immediately release. Proceed with BnB combo. 3. (this one is hard) Practice focus dashing through fire balls. Learn the range you can focus dash through them and still combo. To do this go into practice mode and set your opponent to Ryu, go to the options and record Ryu throwing fireballs once every 3 seconds. Then set Ryu to play back and practice dashing in on a fireball the immediately doing your BnB combo/if out of range doing a s.mk to poke him before he recovers from his fireball animation.
Lastly, the people who really beat me are the ones who just come with a fast and furious non-stop attack. It's so fast I can't even think fast enough to get any space in. I can't even just block and wait because they mix in the EX and throws that break through.
Being able to cope with this comes with experience. You have to be used to being rushed down so you don't panic. Once you can do that you can start seeing opportunities to counter attack. Also, the character your using is a very aggressive character at high level play. If you want to step your game up you need to learn to be aggressive. You may take a few (or many) loses, but just play games where you keep on coming at the opponent. Relentlessly using focus dash cancels/knee presses/block strings/mix up grabs/cross ups. Just keep up pressure. You'll probably eat allot of counter attacks and losses at first but your doings this to get used that pace. Get used to being aggressive. Once you do this you can then start incorporating safe ways to get in on opponents. You will also quickly find out what characters you can use what pressure tactics on.
Once again, watch videos of pro players. Take note of what moves they use on what characters. Allot of winning a fight is knowing what is safe and what is not in each character match up. I suggests watching many akuma, sagat, ryu, ken, balrog, blanka, abel videos. These will likley be the most common characters you encounter. Use the link I gave before to find professional videos from frame-advantage.
If your getting to the point where you can get a few hundred BB add me. I'm at around 1300 I'm not that good I'm just a huge SF fanboy. Though, I've had Funfetus added for months and never played him. Need to get around to that.
Edit* Also, does anyone know how the mic works in online play with SF for the computer? I would love to play people I know while talking to them but I have no clue how to make sure its transmitting.
Comments
I don't care about all that complicated, super elite stuff. I just go headfirst, and hopefully learn enough about my opponent before I'm beaten in two rounds.
I didn't see that it was mentioned, so if you're interested check out I Got Next which is a free to download (or stream) documentary on the top players on the east and west coast going at it. You wont learn anything that will help you become a good player, but you'll see just how serious this sport we call Street Fighter is.
I've been amazed at all the people who actually study this stuff. For me, it's just about fun with fighting games. Leave the elite strategy for an RTS or a God game.
Also, it's not so much about whether or not you should try to learn elite strategy. It's that such a large component of so-called elite strategy is just secrets that should just be told to everybody.
Plus have you learned how to defeat the Ryu Medium kick into a sweep kick :-p
Also, other then me, do you have any other crew playing?
...or perhaps PSN, hopefully?
In person is where its at. Though that only happens once every few weeks for me. With the one guy that I know that's any good at the game.
I am chronocross_xp on the PSN by the way.
(Want a punching bag of an opponent on the PC version, look up KnightsofAvalon on LIVE. Got about a 19% win rate, and I've been terrible lately.)
Edit* Also my tag is "J RAGE 9000" for Windows Live.
My PSN name is also Colombianshadow for anyone looking for a match :-)
I know that it's time to ask for more help because I'm convinced that either the computer is cheating, or there are more secrets to be learned. Here are my questions.
1) Can really good players beat the game on hard no problem, or is it accepted that the computer just cheats and is impossible? I just want to make sure I'm not thinking I suck because I can't do something that's nobody else can do either.
2) Does the computer cheat, and really good players win anyway? I ask if the computer cheats because it seems as if it is pulling off moves faster than it is possible to input them. I'm not even talking about stuff like cancels. I'm talking about using ultras as counter-attacks in the middle of my combo.
3) When two attacks hit each other, what determines who wins? It seems like every time my attack hits someone else's either they just win, or at best we both get hit. The only time I seem to catch a break is if I do an EX Attack. The thing is, sometimes even an EX attack is no good. I tried doing a regular head stomp, but then EXing the fist afterward, and it was countered with an uppercut!
4) I've gotten better at standing up and beating Abel, but I still have a problem against Zangief. If I try to stand up with EX Head stomp, that's ok. If I don't have EX meter... I'm in trouble. I can try to stand up with a focus attack cancel dash, or just a focus attack, but he always uses the magic green hand which breaks armor. I can try to stand up with a throw, but he uses his special move throws immediately as soon as I stand up, which put me on the ground again. I can't block, because he'll also throw. I can't attack normally, because then he can do whatever he wants.
5) Is Bison's Ultra just shit? Against various people I would do the ultra, even juggling people into it like you're supposed to. Then they would immediately do their ultra, and I would miss and they would hit. This would happen even if they were right in front of me. I thought it was because whoever goes second wins. So the next time someone tried their ultra while in range, I did mine. Theirs still won.
I really have a hard time against people who just don't let up and keep pounding me. If I try to counter, I open myself up and get punished. Even an EX focus or scissor won't turn the tide, because they always use an armor-breaking attack. If I block, I can defend for awhile, but they will eventually just use a throw, or an EX/focus of their own and force me to unblock. Once I'm unblocked, I'm done. The worst is seth when he kicks you and you just spin around like Top Man.
I've been trying to just sneak a jab in at the right moment to open them up and then unleash a combo. The problem is that when I do open them up, I can't do enough damage before they start up again. What's the best way for me to really punish someone when I actually get them. It seems like I do get a chance two or three times a fight, but I'm unable to really make the most of it beyond a few hits and one or two special moves. What do I have to do to torture the other guy and make it so they are the ones who can't figure out how to stand up?
Lastly, what's the best thing out there to record videos? Is is still that FRAPS thing? Is something else better/cheaper? I'd rather not pay money.
Against computer you probably can't. Its more about exploiting errors. For people...
Knock em to the floor and play mix up games on wake up. With Bison your main tools are.
1. c.lk X3 into knee press. Knocks down on hit and safe on block.
2. Standing roundhouse poke. (one stop shop to beat Zangief)
3. Focus dash. Your forward focus dash is incredibly fast and goes incredibly far. Use it to blow through fireballs and combo opponents. Also, throw in random focus attacks into forward dash on block strings instead of knee presses. This will keep up pressure and if your opponent attempted to counter poke you just opened them up.
4. Jumping mk. This move is a very good cross up. Jump just over your opponent and use it to force them to block backwards. This will mess up many anti air moves and will confuse your opponent allowing you a greater chance to hit them.
5. Ex head stomp. If you expect your opponent will do a high priority move on wake up throw this out. It will beat nearly everything and leave you fairly safe.
6. Throw. Never forget the power of a normal grab. Throw it in randomly on wake up and in block strings.
Of course there are many math specific strategies. Watch videos of professional players to learn more.
I've also figured out how to catch people with the super or ultra. No need to juggle them into the air first. I can just wait until someone whiffs on a jump kick and "catch" them in the air with the correct timing. Got a few ultra finishes that way.
Also, the EX head stomp is the only reason I can even do anything at all. Without that, I got nothing.
Lastly, the people who really beat me are the ones who just come with a fast and furious non-stop attack. It's so fast I can't even think fast enough to get any space in. I can't even just block and wait because they mix in the EX and throws that break through.
The craziest thing I saw was some guy hit me with a few normals, then a hurricane kick canceled into a shoryuken canceled into the super fireball. That's just fuckin' criminal.
1. Do quick Focus attack into dash cancels on block strings instead of doing knee presses once in a while to throw your opponent off. You can hold it for a fraction of a second to try to bait a poke jab, then release and get a counter hit crumple. Or you can release it immediately and just dash cancel afterwords to keep up pressure. If you do this randomly and sparingly so your opponent isn't used to it you will like the results. Practice doing block strings on an all block dummy in training mode.
2. Use focus attack as an anti air once in a while. Don't do it all the time as your opponent will get used to it and may try to bait you into focusing to punish you. Hold focus, wait for the Armour to break from your opponents air attack, then immediately release. Proceed with BnB combo.
3. (this one is hard) Practice focus dashing through fire balls. Learn the range you can focus dash through them and still combo. To do this go into practice mode and set your opponent to Ryu, go to the options and record Ryu throwing fireballs once every 3 seconds. Then set Ryu to play back and practice dashing in on a fireball the immediately doing your BnB combo/if out of range doing a s.mk to poke him before he recovers from his fireball animation. Being able to cope with this comes with experience. You have to be used to being rushed down so you don't panic. Once you can do that you can start seeing opportunities to counter attack. Also, the character your using is a very aggressive character at high level play. If you want to step your game up you need to learn to be aggressive. You may take a few (or many) loses, but just play games where you keep on coming at the opponent. Relentlessly using focus dash cancels/knee presses/block strings/mix up grabs/cross ups. Just keep up pressure. You'll probably eat allot of counter attacks and losses at first but your doings this to get used that pace. Get used to being aggressive. Once you do this you can then start incorporating safe ways to get in on opponents. You will also quickly find out what characters you can use what pressure tactics on.
Once again, watch videos of pro players. Take note of what moves they use on what characters. Allot of winning a fight is knowing what is safe and what is not in each character match up. I suggests watching many akuma, sagat, ryu, ken, balrog, blanka, abel videos. These will likley be the most common characters you encounter. Use the link I gave before to find professional videos from frame-advantage.
If your getting to the point where you can get a few hundred BB add me. I'm at around 1300 I'm not that good I'm just a huge SF fanboy. Though, I've had Funfetus added for months and never played him. Need to get around to that.
Edit* Also, does anyone know how the mic works in online play with SF for the computer? I would love to play people I know while talking to them but I have no clue how to make sure its transmitting.