When testing with family and friends be sure you understand how everyone who is NOT YOU is treating the experience. Some of them may play in a way so as to not hurt your feelings or point out bad things in the game design. As long as you know where they are coming from you will know how to treat what they tell you about the design.
Feel free to add in some people who do not like you. They will likely be more willing to point out flaws.
But seriously folks, I was driving behind an SUV the other day that had a decent-sized rear window decal with the words "No free rides! Gas or ass," underneath a stick figure image of one person bending over another and pounding it into their rear.
I am often blindsided when people complain about problems in our culture and such because I honestly have just filtered these people out of my life. Here he was! A genuine asshole in the wild! Such a majestic creature, chugging along the highway.
OK, so what's the board's consensus on meta-rules? I'm not sure this is the right term, but I don't know a better one.
The game I'm working on allows players to maintain limited inventories of gear and tokens. The gear allows certain gameplay effects (of course) and the tokens represent satisfaction of various win conditions (multiples of which have to be satisfied in order to actually win the game.)
In the course of the game, it will be possible for one player to save another player from various consequences (I hesitate to say elimination, because one of my overriding design concerns is to not have player elimination, although there may be a reversal of win conditions for players based on game events).
Am I overcomplicating this? Sorry..
Anyway... it'll be possible for one player to bail another out in various scenarios. So.. this lends itself to player bargaining. "I'll give you this token if you declare X action which saves my butt in this round."
Should deals be enforced by game mechanic? In other words, should backing out on a deal (by not handing over the token after X action is declared by the other player, for example) be a lose condition, or is it better just to let players lie and screw each other?
I think I'm leaning to the latter, though I worry it could be disruptive to gameplay (and friendships.)
Actually after typing it all out, it seems pretty clear that players should be allowed to be lying bastards to their hearts' content.
So... I've actually started prototyping boards, card decks, counters, and rules for the board game project that's been fomenting in my poor head for about a year now. As someone who has never fit terribly well into the con scene and has few friends... how do I playtest this thing???
Ha.
I do have quite a few friends who are local, but the problem with playing with friends and family, for the most part, is that they are not going to be as harsh on critiquing your game. I went to Meetup.com and found some local gaming groups. As it turns out, there are quite a few groups that get together to play games, and I found one that play tests exclusively. The other groups tend to have a theme for their group gatherings, but some allow outside games during open nights. Check around local game stores and comic shops that have a board game element to them as well.
If you are outside of an urban area, you may have to drive a bit (I drive 35 miles each way to my play-test group), but if you are in the city, you should be able to find some local groups.
Play the game with friends and family, of course, as it gives you the chance to see the game in action without having to worry about playing solo. It is very important to have people not close to you test out your game.
Depending on how far along, or how complicated your game is, you can reach out to other people for blind play-testing. You can either (for something a bit more piece heavy) use a site like Thegamecrafter.com, or create a prototype of the game and send it to willing people to play it, to find the cracks in the game, and rules. If the game is less component heavy, you can create a print and play file that others can click on and print it themselves. I have found that the print and play seems to get less enthusiasm, but it can still work (I am interested...). BGG is another place to find people who might be interested in playing prototypes.
I actually need to polish the prototype a bit more before I'm ready to let people test it... but I will definitely come back and ask you when I'm ready.
This weekend I taught two Magic players how to play Android: Netrunner, and both of them demolished my NBN: The World is Yours deck with my own Andromeda deck. Part piloting error, part deckbuilding error - mistakes are being corrected (especially a tendency to leave myself far too vulnerable to Emergency Shutdown... my moneyyyy)
Had an especially enjoyable two hours after the store closed, playing Race for the Galaxy until 1AM at a diner. I swear, diner booths are made for playing card games.
We had a group of five on Saturday, so we played a couple of hidden team/social deduction games, Shadow Hunters and The Resistance. I originally packed these for PAX but didn't get the chance to play them until now. Both enjoyable, even if we made a real mess of them. Shadow Hunters began with a lot of random swinging in the dark - In my defense, I had a card that FORCED me to attack my unrevealed teammate nearly every turn. We played The Resistance three times, and people had a tendency to vote yes on missions where they should know better. Spies lost the second game after the player to my left revealed an error on my part: "You were just on a mission where two spies voted to fail. There is literally no reason for you to even think about how to build this mission team if you're not a spy." Oops. The spies lost that game!
Odds and Ends:
Suburbia with forum member Raithnor, discovering you can't allow someone to monopolize the Airports in 2p or you will likely lose.
A game of Ave Caesar where we all hailed the store owner, instead ("Ave Karl!")
The first game of King of Tokyo I've won to date, thanks to a card that allowed me eat the corpses of the fallen. So many bodies.
A too-long game of Bohnanza with one sleep-deprived player. I was the only player at the top of the scoreboard without a third bean field. Groupthink dictates that if you don't spend those coins on a field, you are too far ahead in points and it is no longer safe to trade with you. Interestingly, this situation could make that beanfield a worthwhile investment just to participate in the latter half of the game. Although if you don't see the points in your hand to make the field work for you, you should still shoot ahead early and abstain from the third beanfield, because you'll end up with a hand full of untraded cards and win on the tiebreaker.
I managed to play a few games over the weekend at various events:
Cloak and Dagger: It is a customize Love letter that plays up to 6 and has a spy theme. For an "advanced" prototype it is amazingly well done. Roommate tried to ruin it however by suggesting a bad rule.
Caveman the Quest for Fire: Every goes science while I go hunter, hunter route won handily.
At the other other other Saturday event:
Alien Frontiers: Two player game that was close, but that mind control helmet is to OP with two people.
Castles of Burgundy: I would have easily lost this game if the other player paid attention to my board instead I won with over 85 points.
8 Minute Empire: If everyone is smart it will only take 8 minutes, at worst it will take 20. A simple item gathering war game that could easily be used as a filler game. Recommended
Ticket to Ride Asia: Sometimes when the other team is an asshole there is nothing you can do.
Played a game of Glory to Rome that got way imbalanced in the midgame (and ended up with Justin/Linkigi winning by a landslide). Some of the building combinations might have to be tweaked in later playthroughs.
Also played two games of Eclipse with the expansion. I really like the new parts, and it's so much easier to set up and play with a plano box. Now I just need those population cube grids and everything will be super streamlined. I can fit all the pieces I need for an up-to-seven player game in the expansion box + plano, so I don't have to carry around the GIANT original game box.
Played a game of Glory to Rome that got way imbalanced in the midgame (and ended up with Justin/Linkigi winning by a landslide). Some of the building combinations might have to be tweaked in later playthroughs.
I have yet to find a combination that requires "tweaking." Some are very powerful, but you can also see them coming and plan accordingly.
GtR is all about adaptation and posturing. Also, careful feeding and management of the pool.
Yeah, I need to play a lot more before I even think about what specific tweaks I'd make, but the initial reaction from the first-time players was pretty negative. I know it's generally a really fun game, but they experienced a game with what (to an inexperienced eye) looked like a game-breaking imbalance.
Yeah, I need to play a lot more before I even think about what specific tweaks I'd make, but the initial reaction from the first-time players was pretty negative. I know it's generally a really fun game, but they experienced a game with what (to an inexperienced eye) looked like a game-breaking imbalance.
Let them in on the game's big secret: every combination is imbalanced.
Bar/Garden when the pool is nicely stocked? Welp, you just won the game! Or wait until someone puts up a lovely Bridge to go with their Domus Aurea. It only needs to happen once in the game, and it will be enough to make people cry.
I found out my college has a board game club so I went and checked them out. I played some fun Dominion and won a clutch game with only 9 points. Then I played munchkin for the first time which was not at all to my liking. The rules were unclear on the order of events and alliances during combat and the people I was with interpreted them in a way that made combat harder to win. This just enhanced the built in rubberband mechanic where people team up on anyone doing well. The only positive things I have to say about the game are complements to its art and humor.
So I checked out Meetup.com and the closest gaming groups are all in New Haven, which is like, 45 minutes away on a good traffic day. That's not terrible, but man, Connecticut sucks.
Thanks for the suggestion at any rate, I'd never have thought of it! Two out of the 5 or so groups I found look really promising.
"SeaFall is a 4X game (explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate) set in an 'age of sail' world reminiscent of our world." ... "As in Risk Legacy, co-designed by Rob Daviau, SeaFall evolves as player plays the game, setting their grudges into the history of the game and building a different narrative at every table as players open up the world."
Just based on this description, I am pretty sure this game will take over one of my groups for at least 2 months.
"As in Risk Legacy, co-designed by Rob Daviau, SeaFall evolves as player plays the game, setting their grudges into the history of the game and building a different narrative at every table as players open up the world."
Just based on this description, I am pretty sure this game will take over one of my groups for at least 2 months.
I might be interested in hopping on that campaign.
What is Risk Legacy? As soon as I hear "Risk" I think "dice fest".
It's Risk but with permanent changes to the game (as in picking a sticker to get a buff and then ripping the card).
What is Risk Legacy? As soon as I hear "Risk" I think "dice fest".
Risk Legacy is a dicefest that breaks a lot of board game rules - you put stickers with in-game effects on the map after every game, destroy cards when certain conditions are met, add rules and pieces that are sealed away in nondescript boxes, etc. The winner of every game signs their name on the board. It's still Risk, but games are shorter.
Hannabi - Bought the last copy at the FLGS and man has it been a hit. I am going to be selling some shit co-op games because of this (D-Day Dice being one of them).
Castles of Burgundy - Slowly rising in the "games I am willing to throw down on" and crushed the competition with a score of 258 in a 4 player game.
7 Wonders - I tied for victory but lost on the first tie breaker (money)
Shadow Hunters (Pence's game) - It is ok, nothing I see myself getting but quick enough that I could hop in if I needed to kill time
Puerto Rico - I am considering upgrading to the anniversary set just to get the expansions.
Also placing this reminder here for my future self, don't forget to pick up the Innovation set on the table before you leave for Friday gaming next time.
Comments
Yeah, probably.
This question is sort of like, "I want to drive to California in my van but I don't want to buy any gas. How do?"
*sigh*
Feel free to add in some people who do not like you. They will likely be more willing to point out flaws.
But seriously folks, I was driving behind an SUV the other day that had a decent-sized rear window decal with the words "No free rides! Gas or ass," underneath a stick figure image of one person bending over another and pounding it into their rear.
I am often blindsided when people complain about problems in our culture and such because I honestly have just filtered these people out of my life. Here he was! A genuine asshole in the wild! Such a majestic creature, chugging along the highway.
Just go to an Unpub event and you will be fine.
The game I'm working on allows players to maintain limited inventories of gear and tokens. The gear allows certain gameplay effects (of course) and the tokens represent satisfaction of various win conditions (multiples of which have to be satisfied in order to actually win the game.)
In the course of the game, it will be possible for one player to save another player from various consequences (I hesitate to say elimination, because one of my overriding design concerns is to not have player elimination, although there may be a reversal of win conditions for players based on game events).
Am I overcomplicating this? Sorry..
Anyway... it'll be possible for one player to bail another out in various scenarios. So.. this lends itself to player bargaining. "I'll give you this token if you declare X action which saves my butt in this round."
Should deals be enforced by game mechanic? In other words, should backing out on a deal (by not handing over the token after X action is declared by the other player, for example) be a lose condition, or is it better just to let players lie and screw each other?
I think I'm leaning to the latter, though I worry it could be disruptive to gameplay (and friendships.)
Actually after typing it all out, it seems pretty clear that players should be allowed to be lying bastards to their hearts' content.
If they're not enforced, they will act exactly like this sort of thing does in Risk/Monopoly/etc...
If you are outside of an urban area, you may have to drive a bit (I drive 35 miles each way to my play-test group), but if you are in the city, you should be able to find some local groups.
Play the game with friends and family, of course, as it gives you the chance to see the game in action without having to worry about playing solo. It is very important to have people not close to you test out your game.
Depending on how far along, or how complicated your game is, you can reach out to other people for blind play-testing. You can either (for something a bit more piece heavy) use a site like Thegamecrafter.com, or create a prototype of the game and send it to willing people to play it, to find the cracks in the game, and rules. If the game is less component heavy, you can create a print and play file that others can click on and print it themselves. I have found that the print and play seems to get less enthusiasm, but it can still work (I am interested...). BGG is another place to find people who might be interested in playing prototypes.
Had an especially enjoyable two hours after the store closed, playing Race for the Galaxy until 1AM at a diner. I swear, diner booths are made for playing card games.
We had a group of five on Saturday, so we played a couple of hidden team/social deduction games, Shadow Hunters and The Resistance. I originally packed these for PAX but didn't get the chance to play them until now. Both enjoyable, even if we made a real mess of them. Shadow Hunters began with a lot of random swinging in the dark - In my defense, I had a card that FORCED me to attack my unrevealed teammate nearly every turn. We played The Resistance three times, and people had a tendency to vote yes on missions where they should know better. Spies lost the second game after the player to my left revealed an error on my part: "You were just on a mission where two spies voted to fail. There is literally no reason for you to even think about how to build this mission team if you're not a spy." Oops. The spies lost that game!
Odds and Ends:
Cloak and Dagger: It is a customize Love letter that plays up to 6 and has a spy theme. For an "advanced" prototype it is amazingly well done. Roommate tried to ruin it however by suggesting a bad rule.
Caveman the Quest for Fire: Every goes science while I go hunter, hunter route won handily.
At the other other other Saturday event:
Alien Frontiers: Two player game that was close, but that mind control helmet is to OP with two people.
Castles of Burgundy: I would have easily lost this game if the other player paid attention to my board instead I won with over 85 points.
8 Minute Empire: If everyone is smart it will only take 8 minutes, at worst it will take 20. A simple item gathering war game that could easily be used as a filler game. Recommended
Ticket to Ride Asia: Sometimes when the other team is an asshole there is nothing you can do.
Also played two games of Eclipse with the expansion. I really like the new parts, and it's so much easier to set up and play with a plano box. Now I just need those population cube grids and everything will be super streamlined. I can fit all the pieces I need for an up-to-seven player game in the expansion box + plano, so I don't have to carry around the GIANT original game box.
GtR is all about adaptation and posturing. Also, careful feeding and management of the pool.
Bar/Garden when the pool is nicely stocked? Welp, you just won the game! Or wait until someone puts up a lovely Bridge to go with their Domus Aurea. It only needs to happen once in the game, and it will be enough to make people cry.
Thanks for the suggestion at any rate, I'd never have thought of it! Two out of the 5 or so groups I found look really promising.
"SeaFall is a 4X game (explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate) set in an 'age of sail' world reminiscent of our world."
...
"As in Risk Legacy, co-designed by Rob Daviau, SeaFall evolves as player plays the game, setting their grudges into the history of the game and building a different narrative at every table as players open up the world."
Just based on this description, I am pretty sure this game will take over one of my groups for at least 2 months.
Coldguy, we'll totally play some SeaFall. Oh, and if you're still trying to get rid of Innovation, bring it with you next game night. I'll buy it (or if you want anything on my For Trade list: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/collection/user/pence?trade=1&subtype=boardgame)
Hannabi - Bought the last copy at the FLGS and man has it been a hit. I am going to be selling some shit co-op games because of this (D-Day Dice being one of them).
Castles of Burgundy - Slowly rising in the "games I am willing to throw down on" and crushed the competition with a score of 258 in a 4 player game.
7 Wonders - I tied for victory but lost on the first tie breaker (money)
Shadow Hunters (Pence's game) - It is ok, nothing I see myself getting but quick enough that I could hop in if I needed to kill time
Puerto Rico - I am considering upgrading to the anniversary set just to get the expansions.
Also placing this reminder here for my future self, don't forget to pick up the Innovation set on the table before you leave for Friday gaming next time.