Okay, so I will try to address issues by poster as I look at the posts. @Matt... I talked to Dave at Game Salute here in WA. They have 3 options for designers. A bare bones version where they simply fulfill shipping of a Kickstarted, published game, for a flat fee. Option 2 is taking over after a Kickstarter with distribution (I forget if this includes help with publishing, but I don't think it does), and they keep 25% of profits, while the other 75% goes in my pocket. Option 3 is Pre-Kickstarter. They take the project, give it art, refine the game mechanics, rules, etc. They run the Kickstarter, publish and distribute. The designer gets around 4%. If I was to work with Game Salute, I would probably go with option B, unless I can find out how to network my game onto store shelves. It's a decision I should think about pretty soon, because if I decided to distribute through someone else, I should probably not bring my game to the Game Salute meetups any more.
Option 3 really doesn't sound very appealing. 4% sucks but it's within the normal range for handing your design over to a publisher. 50% store profit, 25% manufacturing cost, a chunk for marketing and distribution, and the publisher and designer cut up the rest (publisher usually getting up to 3x the designer share). The Game Salute guys are generally good people, but if you do ever go the full-production route, make sure you are very clear about transparency in their refinement of the game. I'd heard some people grumbling that they felt GS just took games right to print without trying to test them or make any sort of improvements. Ask for specifics on what they'll do, when and how often they'll do it, and request playtest sheets, etc. Work it all into the contract. I think you're headed in the right direction though, with Option B.
Ricochet Robots solves this by having a grey plastic thing with four pegs that fit into the one hole in each of the four board. It means the central four squares of the board aren't used, but it doesn't matter for that game. For this wizard game, the central four squares could be a castle or something. I've not looked at the rules enough to know if the central four squares are needed
You can also use a clip on the outside edge of the boards where they connect together if the inside area is used. Or use the special folding method where a square board has a slit from the middle to one edge and folds into a square 25% of the full board size.
Well considering the 2 player game uses a smaller board (6x6) I think tiles would be ideal, and reasonably easy to customize. With tiles you could even go with a 7x7 board for 3 players. I like the idea of monsters as an advanced idea with maybe an event deck that makes the monsters do something like an Archer shooting a stun arrow or something. It will be something to develop as thing go on.
Don't let the advanced mode get too crazy, that's what expansions are for. Just get enough in there that the game is worth playing.
Also, don't call advanced mode advanced mode. Call advanced mode normal mode, and call baby mode baby mode. I've noticed that people tend to rarely ever play advanced modes in games. And real gamers will skip baby modes. Whatever mode is called normal mode is the one that gets played.
@Matt, I am sure I could go with option B if I continue to develop the game at the GS meetups, bit I plan on looking into other options. I know the founder of Asmadi games,so i can chcheck with him. I know he moved away from GS but not sure why. Channel A, I think was distributed by foam brain games.
Don't let the advanced mode get too crazy, that's what expansions are for. Just get enough in there that the game is worth playing.
Also, don't call advanced mode advanced mode. Call advanced mode normal mode, and call baby mode baby mode. I've noticed that people tend to rarely ever play advanced modes in games. And real gamers will skip baby modes. Whatever mode is called normal mode is the one that gets played.
This, a thousand times.
Here's an exaggerated version of my take on this: I start negatively judging a game when it has too many modes and variants. I like to think that we exist in a sterling board game utopia, where each individual game is an artisanally-crafted experience that sprung forth from the designer's mind in a shit of wisdom. When I see variants and promo cards, I ask myself what the ideal game would be, and can look down my nose at the designer for either lacking vision or trying to squeeze extra money out of me.
I like Eclipse's expansion model. "Here's a box with a bunch of shit and a bunch of alternate rules. Mix and match what you want."
The base game is fine. The expansion just adds options.
The base game in your rules is just fine. I definitely think these crazy variants belong in expansions or alternate game modes.
And you could do crazy shit in expansions. I would just make sure that you don't make the core mechanic - competitive blocking and manuevering - obsolete with additional rules. Hedges should always be relevant.
Pro tip: every time you think of something cool to do design wise also consider how to do it in a production environment.
The company that will help with your kickstarter, do they only get paid on success?
I am not sure about the full details on any of the 3 options. I am not sure if the flat fee is per item shipped, or is based on how many ship, etc. He did say that they prefer and are more likely to take a project that hasn't been fully finished so that they can use their people, and run everything with their team. I am not sure what happens to the project if the Kickstarter fails. Option B (hand it over post kickstarter) probably only works on well funded kickstarters, maybe not ones that barely make it. I know Velociraptor! Cannibalism! ended up distributing through Game Salute, though I am not sure of the details as to why.
I once met the creator of Sentinels of the Multiverse (on a panel that Matt was on), and asked him if there was anything he would have done differently in the process. He said that he wouldn't have done the publishing himself. It turned out to be a bigger task than anticipated, and they got really lucky. The most difficult part though, is getting the game on more store shelves than just a local smaller game store.
I found a very cool site with a bunch of textures that I can use for my squares. I picked a few, and I think they could work on a board, or as tiles. I am leaning toward the tiles idea, as I like the variety they would provide. Tile Styles
I found a very cool site with a bunch of textures that I can use for my squares. I picked a few, and I think they could work on a board, or as tiles. I am leaning toward the tiles idea, as I like the variety they would provide. Tile Styles
So it's like a swirling maelstrom of eldritch energy on which wizards madly battle each other for supremacy?
Everyone already made lists for everything else, so why not consider the top 5 board games I played for the first time this year:
5. Love Letter - As simple filler, it's excellent. Sometimes you lose and there's nothing you can do about it, but there are still some interesting emergent properties in the two player game that become apparent as you play more and more hands.
4. Coup - A deceptively deep filler. Impressive in that it can be played as a simple filler like Love Letter, but Coup is hiding a surprisingly deep tactical and psychological game under the hood. You can play Love Letter while having a conversation, but if you don't pay attention to Coup, you'll miss most of the game.
3. Keyflower - An interesting hybrid of auctions, tile laying, and worker placement. I actually surprised myself by including this game while making this list - I've only been able to play Keyflower once, and was hesitant to put it on my top 5, but if you asked me to play tonight I'd jump at the opportunity.
2. Suburbia (with expansion) - Another tile laying game. It's immediately charming and impressive that the simple mechanics can convey many of the themes of SimCity, from proper zoning to interactive tiles that imply everyone is building a small suburb of a larger city. The base game is almost too simple, but the expansion elevates it greatly, especially the addition of bonus/challenge tiles.
1. Netrunner - Easily the top of my list. The factions are excellent, the skill cap is absurdly high without sacrificing directional heuristics for new players, and the game as a whole is an incredible design. I think about Netrunner quite a lot when I'm not playing it (and I don't get to play it enough - only 100 face to face games this year). Bonus points for the LCG business model; I can't fit a lifestyle game like Magic into my life anymore, but I'll gladly pay $15 every six weeks for more Netrunner. Also: Scott taught me the game at PAX East and flatlined me on turn 4 or something.
I found a very cool site with a bunch of textures that I can use for my squares. I picked a few, and I think they could work on a board, or as tiles. I am leaning toward the tiles idea, as I like the variety they would provide. Tile Styles
So it's like a swirling maelstrom of eldritch energy on which wizards madly battle each other for supremacy?
I like the cut of your jib.
Yeah, that sounds like it fits well. Now to the decision of borders on the tiles, or leave them as is and have the art flow wall to wall on the tiles. I am hoping to get some time to work on the game this weekend while I have to prepare to switch to night shift at work by staying up much later than I am used to.
Here is a look at the tiles I am thinking of going with. These, if necessary could be adapted onto a game board instead with little trouble (I already have the board created with the old colors). Tiles with and without borders
I am working on making a board mock-up that can be submitted to the printer, using the previous version. The board option is a bit cheaper to go with, but I like the tile idea more.
Here is the game board (if I decide to go with a board) with the new squares design. The tiles would be the same style, just individual, and the board could be set up many more ways. There would also be 6 Wild tiles (the purple squares) in the mix to allow for up to 6 wild spaces on the board.
I also decided to go back to green instead of orange and plan on using a purple border on the wild cards.
I skipped Unpub, but got to play crazy amounts of Race, Agricola, Puerto Rico, and Dominion this weekend. Now I am reading the rules for Through the Ages.
Here is a new look at the cards, they match the current tiles that I am using as well. A friend mentioned that the text on the back of the cards should stand out more, so I added a bit of layering to it.
I skipped Unpub as well this year, after having gone the past 2 years. I almost decided to drive down Sunday morning but it was better spent hanging out with the kid, getting some work done on the house, playing football, and starting to prep X-Wing squads w/ Wave 3 for the 2014 regional tournaments starting up in ~6 weeks.
A friend pointed out to me, over the weekend, that Tiles might not be the best option without some kind of frame to keep them from getting shifted by accidental bumps. He also mentioned tiles would make setup take a bit longer. I like the idea of being able to customize the board with tiles, and I am still very much tempted to get the tiles and see how well they work. I think being able to reduce the size of the board based on the number of players with tiles will be interesting, but can also be solved with a double sided board.
Comments
The company that will help with your kickstarter, do they only get paid on success?
Make a solid base game first. Modify with bells and whistles second.
EDIT: or like Settlers?
And the joins would be at the corners, not the edges, which might make any clip easier to make/use/etc.
Though Luke's idea could be cool too. Less annoying to set up than a grid of 64 individual tiles.
I'm just really into configurable boards for games.
Also, don't call advanced mode advanced mode. Call advanced mode normal mode, and call baby mode baby mode. I've noticed that people tend to rarely ever play advanced modes in games. And real gamers will skip baby modes. Whatever mode is called normal mode is the one that gets played.
Here's an exaggerated version of my take on this: I start negatively judging a game when it has too many modes and variants. I like to think that we exist in a sterling board game utopia, where each individual game is an artisanally-crafted experience that sprung forth from the designer's mind in a shit of wisdom. When I see variants and promo cards, I ask myself what the ideal game would be, and can look down my nose at the designer for either lacking vision or trying to squeeze extra money out of me.
The base game is fine. The expansion just adds options.
The base game in your rules is just fine. I definitely think these crazy variants belong in expansions or alternate game modes.
And you could do crazy shit in expansions. I would just make sure that you don't make the core mechanic - competitive blocking and manuevering - obsolete with additional rules. Hedges should always be relevant.
I once met the creator of Sentinels of the Multiverse (on a panel that Matt was on), and asked him if there was anything he would have done differently in the process. He said that he wouldn't have done the publishing himself. It turned out to be a bigger task than anticipated, and they got really lucky. The most difficult part though, is getting the game on more store shelves than just a local smaller game store.
Tile Styles
I like the cut of your jib.
5. Love Letter - As simple filler, it's excellent. Sometimes you lose and there's nothing you can do about it, but there are still some interesting emergent properties in the two player game that become apparent as you play more and more hands.
4. Coup - A deceptively deep filler. Impressive in that it can be played as a simple filler like Love Letter, but Coup is hiding a surprisingly deep tactical and psychological game under the hood. You can play Love Letter while having a conversation, but if you don't pay attention to Coup, you'll miss most of the game.
3. Keyflower - An interesting hybrid of auctions, tile laying, and worker placement. I actually surprised myself by including this game while making this list - I've only been able to play Keyflower once, and was hesitant to put it on my top 5, but if you asked me to play tonight I'd jump at the opportunity.
2. Suburbia (with expansion) - Another tile laying game. It's immediately charming and impressive that the simple mechanics can convey many of the themes of SimCity, from proper zoning to interactive tiles that imply everyone is building a small suburb of a larger city. The base game is almost too simple, but the expansion elevates it greatly, especially the addition of bonus/challenge tiles.
1. Netrunner - Easily the top of my list. The factions are excellent, the skill cap is absurdly high without sacrificing directional heuristics for new players, and the game as a whole is an incredible design. I think about Netrunner quite a lot when I'm not playing it (and I don't get to play it enough - only 100 face to face games this year). Bonus points for the LCG business model; I can't fit a lifestyle game like Magic into my life anymore, but I'll gladly pay $15 every six weeks for more Netrunner. Also: Scott taught me the game at PAX East and flatlined me on turn 4 or something.
Now to the decision of borders on the tiles, or leave them as is and have the art flow wall to wall on the tiles.
I am hoping to get some time to work on the game this weekend while I have to prepare to switch to night shift at work by staying up much later than I am used to.
Tiles with and without borders
I am working on making a board mock-up that can be submitted to the printer, using the previous version. The board option is a bit cheaper to go with, but I like the tile idea more.
I also decided to go back to green instead of orange and plan on using a purple border on the wild cards.