This forum is in permanent archive mode. Our new active community can be found here.

Don't Use Anti-Virus Software

1468910

Comments

  • RymRym
    edited May 2012
    Never install warez. It will mostly fuck you. The only exception is if you are actually capable of determining whether or not said warez is safe.

    I am one of those people. Most warez I have ever found post 1997 is not safe. There used to be a sort of "honor among thieves" in the warez community. There still is, but said community is not the community most people are actually interacting with then they acquire warez.

    I myself have made malicious software. It's trivial to make, and nearly trivial to make such that it won't easily be detected.
    consumers aren't directly affected enough to care and are unaware of the indirect effects, and the hackers aren't causing enough disruption to be drawing ire.
    Only because they don't associate their constant computer problems with the bad software they installed. They think computers are buggy and problematic, they thing they have to keep buying new ones or "wiping it out and starting over." Almost every problem average users run into is due solely to running bad software.

    Post edited by Rym on
  • So assuming you're not dissagreeing too strongly with the rest of what I've said, how strongly would you disagree to the idea that, your advice, while it works in the scenario you designed for it, can't be realistically implemented.
    Much as it would be nice to give everyone a blank windows install with chrome and a few Steam games, how are you going to do that?

    It comes back to this: Much as I'd like to agree with you from an ideological perspective (I suppose I do.), the advice you provide isn't useful and no-one is willing to implement it in a realistic scenario.

    Essentially, this discussion is at the convening points of several far larger discussions, ranging from the need to self educate, to the amount of resources we are willing to allocate, to what level of hardship we are willing to accept for convenience.
  • edited May 2012
    So assuming you're not dissagreeing too strongly with the rest of what I've said, how strongly would you disagree to the idea that, your advice, while it works in the scenario you designed for it, can't be realistically implemented.
    Much as it would be nice to give everyone a blank windows install with chrome and a few Steam games, how are you going to do that?
    Security through user ignorance -- AKA, if they don't know how to install stuff, they can't install malware. :)

    For better or worse, most of my family doesn't know how to install software on their Windows boxes (I gave up on trying to teach them how to do so years ago because they do it so infrequently they never remember how). This means that I usually end up installing stuff for them, hence it's all vetted by me before it gets installed. Means the odds of them getting any malware are incredibly tiny, but it also means a lot of support work for me... (I didn't say this didn't have its drawbacks)

    Then again, even those who can install their own software usually have me set up their basic setup and won't install anything else before vetting it with me. They even double-check with me if it's safe to install Firefox/Chrome/etc. updates (most of them run Firefox as that was my browser of choice at the time I set up their systems).
    Post edited by Dragonmaster Lou on
  • I think the central irony is that Scott's advice is "Presentation Matters", said in the most acerbic way possible. I know surprisingly few people who ever take their own advice.
  • So assuming you're not dissagreeing too strongly with the rest of what I've said, how strongly would you disagree to the idea that, your advice, while it works in the scenario you designed for it, can't be realistically implemented.
    Much as it would be nice to give everyone a blank windows install with chrome and a few Steam games, how are you going to do that?

    It comes back to this: Much as I'd like to agree with you from an ideological perspective (I suppose I do.), the advice you provide isn't useful and no-one is willing to implement it in a realistic scenario.

    Essentially, this discussion is at the convening points of several far larger discussions, ranging from the need to self educate, to the amount of resources we are willing to allocate, to what level of hardship we are willing to accept for convenience.
    The only cases where it can't be realistically implemented is if the user is unwilling or ignorant. There is nothing else that stands in the way. If the user is ignorant, we fix that by telling them. If the user is unwilling, then you just have to accept that your computer also belongs to hax0rz, and is not your own, and you can assume that someone has access to all of your information at all times on that machine.
  • edited May 2012
    I think the central irony is that Scott's advice is "Presentation Matters", said in the most acerbic way possible. I know surprisingly few people who ever take their own advice.
    Apreche needs no advice for he is flawless and without error. He gives his advice to you and you will take it. End of story. Back in line soldier.

    EDIT: Oh, hello Apreche. Long time no see.
    Post edited by Not nine on
  • edited May 2012
    we fix that by telling them.
    I'm going to wander off for a while.
    Post edited by Omnutia on
  • edited May 2012
    The only cases where it can't be realistically implemented is if the user is unwilling or ignorant. There is nothing else that stands in the way.
    Money.
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • edited May 2012
    Cue above comment being ignored in 3... 2... 1...
    Post edited by Not nine on
  • The only cases where it can't be realistically implemented is if the user is unwilling or ignorant. There is nothing else that stands in the way.
    Money.
    How is money a problem?
  • The only cases where it can't be realistically implemented is if the user is unwilling or ignorant. There is nothing else that stands in the way.
    Money.
    How is money a problem?
    Some software costs money - sometimes a lot of money - and in many cases the only alternatives are warez or free software from dodgy-looking websites.
  • edited May 2012
    The only cases where it can't be realistically implemented is if the user is unwilling or ignorant. There is nothing else that stands in the way.
    Money.
    How is money a problem?
    Some software costs money - sometimes a lot of money - and in many cases the only alternatives are warez or free software from dodgy-looking websites.
    Name a software.

    Don't say Adobe Creative Suite. Just recently we discussed how to install the legit trial of Adobe and get it to work permanently without any warez.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Off the top of my head - just about any PC game, Windows, and MATLAB.
  • Off the top of my head - just about any PC game, Windows, and MATLAB.
    Windows comes with a computer. If you build your own, it's cheap. If you can't afford Windows, use Linux or you can't afford a computer. Zillions of free games out there. Lots more are just $1 or $5. Just don't play the $50 games. I can afford to, and I can't even remember the last time I did.

    Who needs MATLAB that can't afford it, and isn't at a school or business where it's legally freely available?
  • Also, Adobe's been patched. That hosts file trick no longer works.
  • edited May 2012
    Off the top of my head - just about any PC game, Windows, and MATLAB.
    Windows comes with a computer. If you build your own, it's cheap.
    It's $100 for an OEM copy, which is pretty decent, but to some people that's quite a significant amount.

    As for games, while you can get a lot out of free games, there is a significant social aspect to some games that it can really suck to miss out on, whether it's simply talking about the game with people, or the multiplayer experience.
    Who needs MATLAB that can't afford it, and isn't at a school or business where it's legally freely available?
    Even if you get a legal free copy it's probably going to be an old version, while the "student" edition of MATLAB is severely limited in functionality and kinda sucks.

    As it turns out, there's also this as another example:
    Also, Adobe's been patched. That hosts file trick no longer works.
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • In any case, I do agree with the gist of Scott's policy, but it's simply naive to say that money is not a significant obstacle to that ideal.
  • It would be nice to have a blog devoted to security testing Warez releases, and then posting reports on the clean ones along with their MD5 checksums. Then, there'd be no obstacle to Scott's goal.
  • But who would write the blog security testing the blogs security testing the Warez releases, WindUpBird!?
  • Just make a tumblr for it?
  • Just make a tumblr for it?
    Maybe after finals. I'll need to upgrade my PC first, and get a VPN, but it'd be worthwhile. Usually TPB has trusted contributors that don't seem to push infected warez due to the damage it'd do to their scene rep--it'd be best to start there and investigate their claims.
    But who would write the blog security testing the blogs security testing the Warez releases, WindUpBird!?
    Scott. Only way to be sure. ~_^
  • If you don't have a lot of money, it is likely that your computer is not powerful and you only have one of them. You can't afford to put potentially evil software on a separate computer. Your one computer probably isn't powerful enough for lots of virtual machines. It's better to go without some software if it will ruin your only computer. I mean, the only software I have that isn't free is Windows, games, Fraps, AnyDVD, and Premiere Elements (which sucks), and Lightroom (doesn't suck). I don't play most of the games. You can definitely get by safely on software that is free as in beer.
  • Unless you need the Adobe suite.
  • edited May 2012
    But Fraps is such dodgy software, look at the website!
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • Just be careful that you don't get in trouble by linking to pirated material. You should be ok if you are just mentioning the contributors who seem legit rather than any particular download link or site.

    As for shady sites, I really don't use many anymore. The only thing I really pirate are ROMs and other than that just the normal legit stuff is fine. I have MBAM installed on my computers just to scan shit once in a while but other than that I'm just careful about most things. If you do download shit from sheisty looking sites you probably should use something like sandboxie just to be safe.
  • Or just run all yo' shady-ass warez inside a VM.
  • VM's are great sometimes but if its a resource-heavy probram then it might not exactly be the best thing to run in one.
  • edited May 2012
    Or just run all yo' shady-ass warez inside a VM.
    Not a guarantee either. It depends on the method of propagation of said shady warez. Many pieces of malware use a browser or similar exploit just to get a foot into the door and then use other vulnerabilities to spread over the network. Given how the average VM has a virtual network connection to the host OS, you still can get infected. This is pretty much how RSA was hacked via an Excel/Flash vulnerability sent via email. The Flash vulnerability opened the door and the malware then spread across the network by taking advantage of various zero-day (at the time) security flaws in Windows itself.

    Basically, there is no safe way to run shady software short of having a second physical machine that is not connected to your network that you can later totally nuke, MBR and all. Even that may not be safe as h4x0rz and security researchers are discovering methods to install malware in your BIOS and even on your video card's EEPROM.
    Post edited by Dragonmaster Lou on
  • Yeah, and considering that quite often you'll want to be able to transfer files over from your shady software, you have to be quite careful how you do that.
  • NoScript: worth it or waste of time?
Sign In or Register to comment.