Want to write an exploit for CCCP? The three of us could probably do it pretty handily if we put our heads to it. ^_~
Do it, then you'd actually have a valid argument for not using CCCP. I mean, you know that:
Finally, there is the fact that the only videos that have existed in the wild that ever needed it were anime fansubs designed to need it (as we'd already discussed above).
is a load of bullshit.
CCCP has the warning signs of a dangerous product. At best, it's likely to cause system problems.
Link you provided to support your claims (read: therefore agree with):
It’s safe: CCCP is built so it will not ruin your system and/or send it into a tailspin. The CCCP site actually states that installing CCCP might resolve previously existing conflicts.
Even before any mention of the CCCP being made by fansubbers. Reading comprehension much?
It has evangelism from non-technical people to the point of actually using exploits to attempt to make it "necessary" for anime fansubs,
Cite? Or do you think an audio codec not supporting VBR these days is preferable over one that does?
It suggests you remove other codecs you have installed
Yes, what is bad about this? It's a suggestion that will prevent conflicts between whatever you used and CCCP if there might be any. There's no reason to have the older codecs around, so there's no harm in trying to minimize possible conflicts between codecs.
and doesn't appear to play nice with the registry and other system components.
Cite please. I'll give you that this can actually be an argument, if it's true. Sadly you chose to mention it matter-of-factly without any explanation or source. I'll wait for that.
It appears to be able to mess up content creation tools depending on how it's installed.
Cite. Sounds like complete bullshit seeing as that goes against one of the reasons why it was made. No conflicts and bullshit.
It has few technical citations from anyone (compared to VLC or mplayer).
Source? I'll give it to you because they don't really bother prancing badges around. The components in the pack however.
It has a small userbase centered primarily around a particular community (anime fansubbers and fans).
Movie release groups have (finally) begun to encode in H.264 as well, and are suggesting both CCCP and VLC.
It's not open source (VLC is).
Neither is anything Adobe, Apple, Windows. And again, it's components are.
VLC may not be the best, but it's at least trustworthy. I wouldn't trust the software available from CCCP's site one shit. I stand by my professional opinion. There is no reason to install CCCP.
Your opinion is hardly professional, Rym, it's just your opinion. You have an unsupported bias mired in deliberate attempts at misconception or just plain lack of comprehension. There is no reason to install CCCP over VLC or vice versa other than personal preference.
Between VLC and mplayer, you should be able to play every video. If you can't, said video is probably encoded incorrectly, at which point you should re-encode it to be more standard or find another source of the file.
>suggest re-encoding video to be standards compliant >suggest using player that pissed people off enough that they doctored files that fucked up the offending player's lack of standard compliancy and only that player while standard compliant players had zero problems >laughingvideoformats.jpg
Again, software that's behind on standards compliance is the bad thing, not the other way around. The video file can be perfectly standards compliant and not play on a bad player. The party to blame in that regard is you trying to play files your software doesn't support. Update or replace it, or pay attention to what you got.
There's also the part where VLC is shit at displaying videos.
Cite? A real cite? As in, an actual instance where this is true?
I've seen other people complain about this, and I've also seen it first hand when watching anime with Prof Pangloss. My recommendation was to get a better video player.
I can attest to the fact that VLC miserably fucks up playback of a 1080p .MKV of Redline whenever I try and watch it; unwatchable framerate chug and sound sync problems within 30 seconds of starting it.
No such problem with CCCP or the CoreAVC .MKV codec.
I can attest to the fact that VLC miserably fucks up playback of a 1080p .MKV of Redline whenever I try and watch it; unwatchable framerate chug and sound sync problems within 30 seconds of starting it.
No such problem with CCCP or the CoreAVC .MKV codec.
Had the same problem with Redline here, along with random video errors like Joe showed above, at least, before I upgraded VLC, and I couldn't tell if the framerate and sound sync were alright, because it gave up on showing video at all.
Well, I thought I put it clearly enough, but apparently I didn't - Before I upgraded to the latest version of VLC, it was super shitty. AFTER I upgraded to the latest version, there was no longer a problem with it working poorly, because it didn't work at all.
So, really, before you start declaring what the important bit is, you should probably note upgrading it to the latest version broke it completely, a downgrade from working poorly. Unless you're trying to make the point that VLC is hit and miss at best, a pile of shit at worst.
The weird stuttering audio I get when pausing VLC is enough reason for me not to use it, because I find that stutter rather annoying.
I will say that mplayer is a much better piece of software than VLC, but on this Windows laptop it still falls slightly short of the mark due to problems I mentioned earlier. I think this is mostly because no one actually puts any effort into making mplayer work nicely on Windows, unlike some pieces of software that are "written only for Windows".
I suspect that the reason ffdshow and MPC-HC work well on Windows systems is precisely because they are designed as Windows software, and they use the official Microsoft API for displaying video - that is, DirectShow.
Also, since this is an important point and bears repeating - MPC-HC, FFDShow, the LAV filters and VSFilter are ALL open-source software, despite Rym's assertions. The only piece of software included in the CCCP that is not open-source is the Haali media splitter.
There is something to be said for minimizing the total number of things installed on your computer with respect to security. The less stuff you have one, the fewer attack vectors a potential hacker would have. VLC is just one piece of software (yes, it uses various libraries and such, but it's all integrated into the single package). CCCP installs all sorts of different pieces, each one of which could potentially be exploited.
One problem with VLC is mostly a historical one -- it was never meant to be a "Swiss Army Knife" video player. It was originally a video streaming product written by some college students in France for a class project. A side effect of the libraries it used is that it also allowed it to be a multiformat video player. Since then, the VLC developers have been working on making it the work people expect it to -- as a multiformat video player.
Now I use VLC because it just plain works with minimal fuss and it fits under the requirement of "minimizing the software installed on your computer to minimize attack vectors." If I come across anything VLC can't handle, then I may try something else. However, I may not try CCCP -- I'd feel better off just looking up what codecs, etc., it has and installing them manually as needed.
There is something to be said for minimizing the total number of things installed on your computer with respect to security. The less stuff you have one, the fewer attack vectors a potential hacker would have. VLC is just one piece of software (yes, it uses various libraries and such, but it's all integrated into the single package). CCCP installs all sorts of different pieces, each one of which could potentially be exploited.
I do agree that a single piece of software will generally be more secure, although a single piece of software using a wide variety of libaries is still exposing itself to attack via any of the individual libraries.
If there was a single piece of software that worked perfectly for me without any fuss, I would use it.
However, I may not try CCCP -- I'd feel better off just looking up what codecs, etc., it has and installing them manually as needed.
I find it amusing that most of the computer professionals have had such poor arguments that they haven't convinced me at all.
Dragonmaster Lou is the only one with a well-reasoned argument so far, and his point was merely that a single piece of software is to be preferred, which I do agree with.
Oh, and incidentally, I'd take you up on writing an exploit for CCCP since it sounds like an entertaining exercise, but I'm 99% certain that was just shit-talking on your part.
I do agree that a single piece of software will generally be more secure, although a single piece of software using a wide variety of libaries is still exposing itself to attack via any of the individual libraries.
That is true, although in that case you pick the piece of software using fewer libraries. I'll prefer a video player that has LibAllCodecs.dll as its one codec/container library (assuming LibAllCodecs is really a "grand unified library" as opposed to a bunch of separate libraries that were duct-taped together to create a single dll) as opposed to one that uses LibMkv.dll, LibAvi.dll, LibXvid.dll, libH264.dll, and so on, for example.
However, I may not try CCCP -- I'd feel better off just looking up what codecs, etc., it has and installing them manually as needed.
Why?
Here are my primary reasons:
Making sure I have the latest versions of them, complete with any security updates, etc.
By getting them from their original sources, I minimize the chances of the CCCP folks altering them in anyway to bundle malware. I'm not even necessarily protecting against malice by the CCCP folks either -- it's possible that one of the folks who put the bundle together had malware on his/her computer that hijacked the CCCP bundle to spread. Yes, it's possible that the original authors also were infected with malware, but by getting them from the original authors, I at least minimize the number of points malware may have entered the proverbial system.
Again, only installing the stuff that I need. If I don't need all the little apps/codecs/etc. that come with CCCP, why install them all and deal with all the extra potential issues it may entail.
Okay, those are pretty good reasons; I'll try installing MPC-HC, etc. separately. It's even entirely possible that MPC-HC on its own does everything it needs to.
As I said on the last page, I tried both VLC and mplayer on Windows and they didn't work as nicely as they should have.
Okay, everything works fine with MPC-HC and the LAV filters. Does anyone want to level a hyperbolic argument against MPC-HC + LAV now?
Nope... even down to the primary sites for these packages being hosted on Sourceforge and Google Code. I'm sticking with VLC for now as it works, but I may go this route if I come across anything that VLC isn't happy with. Definitely safer than just blindly grabbing CCCP.
Oh, and here's a feature VLC is missing: "On top while playing". When I have it windowed, I want the window to be on top, but not when it's paused. MPC-HC has this feature.
Just for some laughs:
While Nineless presented the argument in the worst possible way...
If you install VLC, you have made a mistake. There's no good reason to install it. Period.
Don't conflate my opinion with Nineless's presentation, nor his conflated points, nor his judgement or any perceived judgement on my part. I simply state my professional opinon.
No one should install VLC. There is no good reason to do so.
Oh, and here's a feature VLC is missing: "On top while playing". When I have it windowed, I want the window to be on top, but not when it's paused. MPC-HC has this feature.
Actually, this feature worked for me last time I tried it.
Only watch videos on HTPC, no need for this feature! You shouldn't need this feature either because you should also have a computer connected to a TV just like I told you. Also, if a video is worth watching, it's worth giving it your full attention. Even on desktop video watching, no need for this feature.
Yes, Scott, the world would be much better off if everyone was you. We know that already.
To suggest that absolutely every video must be watched in fullscreen on an HTPC connected to a TV is, quite frankly, so ridiculous that I don't think I even need to respond.
Comments
For the cloud, that's a subscription, not a purchase.
>suggest using player that pissed people off enough that they doctored files that fucked up the offending player's lack of standard compliancy and only that player while standard compliant players had zero problems
>laughingvideoformats.jpg
Again, software that's behind on standards compliance is the bad thing, not the other way around. The video file can be perfectly standards compliant and not play on a bad player. The party to blame in that regard is you trying to play files your software doesn't support. Update or replace it, or pay attention to what you got.
No such problem with CCCP or the CoreAVC .MKV codec.
So, really, before you start declaring what the important bit is, you should probably note upgrading it to the latest version broke it completely, a downgrade from working poorly. Unless you're trying to make the point that VLC is hit and miss at best, a pile of shit at worst.
I will say that mplayer is a much better piece of software than VLC, but on this Windows laptop it still falls slightly short of the mark due to problems I mentioned earlier. I think this is mostly because no one actually puts any effort into making mplayer work nicely on Windows, unlike some pieces of software that are "written only for Windows".
I suspect that the reason ffdshow and MPC-HC work well on Windows systems is precisely because they are designed as Windows software, and they use the official Microsoft API for displaying video - that is, DirectShow.
Also, since this is an important point and bears repeating -
MPC-HC, FFDShow, the LAV filters and VSFilter are ALL open-source software, despite Rym's assertions. The only piece of software included in the CCCP that is not open-source is the Haali media splitter.
One problem with VLC is mostly a historical one -- it was never meant to be a "Swiss Army Knife" video player. It was originally a video streaming product written by some college students in France for a class project. A side effect of the libraries it used is that it also allowed it to be a multiformat video player. Since then, the VLC developers have been working on making it the work people expect it to -- as a multiformat video player.
Now I use VLC because it just plain works with minimal fuss and it fits under the requirement of "minimizing the software installed on your computer to minimize attack vectors." If I come across anything VLC can't handle, then I may try something else. However, I may not try CCCP -- I'd feel better off just looking up what codecs, etc., it has and installing them manually as needed.
If there was a single piece of software that worked perfectly for me without any fuss, I would use it. Why?
Dragonmaster Lou is the only one with a well-reasoned argument so far, and his point was merely that a single piece of software is to be preferred, which I do agree with.
Oh, and incidentally, I'd take you up on writing an exploit for CCCP since it sounds like an entertaining exercise, but I'm 99% certain that was just shit-talking on your part.
As I said on the last page, I tried both VLC and mplayer on Windows and they didn't work as nicely as they should have.
Just for some laughs:
To suggest that absolutely every video must be watched in fullscreen on an HTPC connected to a TV is, quite frankly, so ridiculous that I don't think I even need to respond.