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Newburgh isn't doing so well

RymRym
edited May 2010 in Everything Else
Newburgh (across from Beacon upstate) certainly isn't doing too well, and doesn't appear to be on the path for anything but more trouble. More and more smaller cities and towns are having similar problems. Meanwhile, all the wealthy and/or educated youth are moving to the large cities (a trend reversal from the last few decades it seems). The old American "mushroom ring" around urban centers is now more like an expanding wave of economic desolation out from a prosperous center. The sad part is that many suburbs were planned for the wealthy fleeing the city: large houses, expensive growth-focused infrastructure, little public transportation, large malls and commercial strips. But, they're now seeing massive population growth primarily among the poor and declining tax receipts.

What's interesting to me, beyond the obvious social ramifications for the next few decades, is that I was verymuch a part of this. Scott, Emily, and I (along with several others in the Crew) are almost exactly the demographic that is at the core of this huge shift.

Is human capital (one of the factors in determining a city's global relevance) the primary asset of a city now? The last time there was a general economic downturn, the cities suffered, and the wealthy fled. Now, the cities weathered our current downturn well, and are coming out stronger than before. Maybe the suburbs were only sustainable due to the longstanding bubble supporting them (artificially high property taxes bolstered by cheap loans on large houses) coupled with a previous boom in the service and retail sectors (retail is dead for people like me who have the Internet and service isn't as useful as it once was).
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Comments

  • Now, the cities weathered our current downturn well, and are coming out stronger than before. Maybe the suburbs were only sustainable due to the longstanding bubble supporting them
    Most cities :-p Your birth city would like to talk with you.

    It makes sense to me, if you put a lot of work into cleaning the city up, people are going to move there, also with the increase of property values in the cities who can live there but professionals.
  • Newburgh has never been doing well. They've got a higher crime rate then NYC and brag about it. Still, it's better off then Schenectady. :D
  • Cities don't view their human capital as all that important. They view commercial capital as king. Commercial properties contribute far more than residential to the municipal income base; how many tax dollars per square foot a business will generate and how many jobs it will create determine how many roads per year the city can pave, how many free clinics it can sponsor, how many urban renewal programs it can run, how many police and firefighters it can field. Municipal administration is very much a Reaganomics model. If you can cultivate the commercial properties that generate revenue so you can afford nice services, then quality citizens will move there. It's a trickle-down effect. Take a look at Newburgh's economy and I'll bet you see liquor stores, fast food restaurants, corner drug stores, and hairdressers. What you probably don't see are car dealerships, real estate agencies, office buildings, specialized health care facilities, legal services.
  • edited May 2010
    Take a look at Newburgh's economy and I'll bet you see liquor stores, fast food restaurants, corner drug stores, and hairdressers. What you probably don't see are car dealerships, real estate agencies, office buildings, specialized health care facilities, legal services.
    They have one nice strip of stuff near the interstate where there is an airport, a really really nice grocery, car dealerships, and the usual retail places like a mall, Best Buy, Home Depot, etc.

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source;=s_q&hl;=en&geocode;=&q;=&sll;=41.504592,-74.074287&sspn;=0.049688,0.071497&ie;=UTF8≪=41.502599,-74.081326&spn;=0.049689,0.071497&t;=h&z;=14
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • DC is in first place! HA, suck it "the city"!!!!
  • DC is in first place! HA, suck it "the city"!!!!
    First place on what list? The worst traffic list?
  • First place on what list? The worst traffic list?
    People like us (wealthy educated young people) are moving to DC from the suburbs slightly faster than we are moving to NYC from the suburbs.

    New York is still #1 in terms of total human capital, though. ^_~
  • edited May 2010
    DC tied with Seattle for top youth magnet.
    First place on what list? The worst traffic list?
    Yeah, we take that by far simply because there's a fuck ton more cars here than could possibly fit on Manhattan.
    Post edited by George Patches on
  • DC tied with Seattle for top youth magnet.
    Yeap. You're stealing some of the talent stream. We're right under you, though, and we have a head start on human capital (per the Global Cities Index in Foreign Policy).
  • edited May 2010
    Yeah, but our city is cleaner and doesn't smell like piss in the summer. It's tit-for-tat though, they're both pretty nice places to be overall. I just have a problem of my current friend's living in the NYC area. >_<
    Post edited by George Patches on
  • Yeah, but our city is cleaner and doesn't smell like piss in the summer. It's tit-for-tat though, they're both pretty nice places to be overall. I just have a problem of my current friend's living in the NYC area. >_<</p>
    I think that depends a lot on where in DC you are.
  • I think that depends a lot on where in DC you are.
    You can say exactly the same thing about "the city."
  • Yeah, but our city is cleaner and doesn't smell like piss in the summer.
    While we joke about it, only a few places actually smell like that. The parks smell strongly of flowers much of the time. The urine stink is really only in places where hobos congregate and where people walk their dogs. It's not nearly what we make it out to be. ^_~

    For some more tits (that you can try to tat). ^_______^

    Our subways go almost everywhere, and run 24/7.
    You have the US government, but we have the WORLD government.
    Almost no violent crime per capita (and surprisingly low absolute numbers)
    We have an empire (this whole untamed wilderness north and west of us with a few colonies)
    Water separates us from New Jersey.
  • As long as people make babies, there will be nice suburbs. They may not all be nice, but affluent people with children want good schools and indoor soccer fields.
  • tats

    Our Metro is cleaner, if a bit useless. Actually it works pretty well in DC and the bits of Alrington it goes through, but I live too far out currently. (But the Metro is coming to me soon!)
    We have the actual world government, the UN is a theatrical display.
    Oh DC and it's handgun ban, proof that gun control does not work.
    Untamed wilderness? Have you been to Virginia? Go west of the beltway and civilization runs out in an hour.
    Over 100 miles of Maryland separated us from New Jersey.
  • As long as people make babies, there will be nice suburbs.
    At least according to these data, it appears that many suburbs are seeing a massive influx of the poor, pushing the wealthy who want or need to live close to a city either into the city itself or even further away.
  • I live in a location on this planet where I am safe, my life is relatively easy and I am close to those I care about.
  • I wonder if there are more Lawyers per square inch in DC then in New York it has to be pretty close.
  • Tat

    We have PAX Prime.
    We are thousands of miles away from New Jersey.
    =P

    Regardless, I wish we all lived closer. -_-
  • DC tied with Seattle for top youth magnet.
    First place on what list? The worst traffic list?
    Yeah, we take that by far simply because there's a fuck ton more cars here than could possibly fit on Manhattan.Driving in DC is a nightmare, and it will continue to be a factor that prevents me from ever considering living there until/unless they get their Metro system expanded to go everywhere so I don't have to have a car.
    Untamed wilderness? Have you been to Virginia? Go west of the beltway and civilization runs out in an hour.
    This is true, but it's 99% pine forests. Plain pine forests that have grown back from old farm fields (which is the case in most of the southern piedmont) can hardly be called untamed wilderness. Plus, a good portion of it is actually cultivated timber land. Then there are the quaint little towns that time forgot. People still live there, and it's definitely not untamed wilderness, but the amenities we have all grown so used to are distinctly lacking.

    My grandma lives in the middle of it. It's about the only place you can get pulled over for speeding in VA the day after Thanksgiving and NOT get a ticket.
  • edited May 2010
    As long as people make babies, there will be nice suburbs. They may not all be nice, but affluent people with children want good schools and indoor soccer fields.
    I literally laughed when I read this. Suburban growth is massively unsustainable, and the moment car commuting becomes too expensive for the average family, the affluent people will move to affluent parts of the city, and the world will be a better place. Look at Sauganash, Lincoln Park, and the Gold Coast in Chicago. The future (at least, for people who would traditionally live in the burbs) is in wealthy neighborhoods inside a city serviced by ridiculously good magnet schools and private school options unavailable to the poorer urban populace, not in little enclaves separated from real urban life by miles of asphalt.
    Post edited by WindUpBird on
  • edited May 2010
    An economic depression causing already economically distressed areas to become even more distressed! News at 11.
    :P
    Post edited by Kate Monster on
  • As long as people make babies, there will be nice suburbs.
    At least according to these data, it appears that many suburbs are seeing a massive influx of the poor, pushing the wealthy who want or need to live close to a city either into the city itself or even further away.
    And if we've all seen Idiocracy, we know the poor sure do like to breed
    While we joke about it, only a few places actually smell like that. The parks smell strongly of flowers much of the time. The urine stink is really only in places where hobos congregate and where people walk their dogs. It's not nearly what we make it out to be. ^_~
    I am reminded of the homeless population when I am in the city on particularly hot, damp, and humid days, where you can witness what I describe as "bum fog"


    I've actually been reading about an unforeseen growth in reverse commuters moving into the city over the past few years (those who live in the city but commute to the suburbs). I too will be joining the migration from suburbia to city life in the next year or so as to ease wifey's commute into NYC. I have a very sweet suburban employment gig, so I will have to become one of these reverse commuters as well.

    I would really like to get into the city itself, but I think something urban on the NJ side of the water like Hoboken will be a likely landing spot. I can get to work as early as 6AM with flexible scheduling, so the morning drive would be a breeze from anywhere in NYC. However, there is no such thing as "opposite of traffic" between 3-7PM when trying to take any of the major bridges or tunnels back to NYC. The mass transit system is really not built for this so car is the only option.

    I really can see the current "generation Y" or "millenials" or whatever the hell you want to call today's 20-somethings being a generation that flocks to the city. People coming out of college and moving to the suburbs now can manage to buy a house, but they are paying a higher portion of their income towards housing than their parents had to. Trust me, paying the cost of your house over again in interest on a 30 year loan is not the model of a wise financial decision, even if it is the "American Dream" to own property. Because of this, people are much less hesitant to rent for longer, or all of, their life, and are therefore more open to urban living.
  • Trust me, paying the cost of your house over again in interest on a 30 year loan is not the model of a wise financial decision, even if it is the "American Dream" to own property.
    ummm.. what? all things aside it's a better investment then renting a property the whole time. If you buy a house you can afford you can pay your loan down quickly.
  • Think about what recent generations have been all about.

    Living in the suburbs. Bored as all hell. Adults ban everything that is fun. Can't even have a playground made of metal, let alone anything actually exciting. Play video games and go on Internets all day.

    But through the Internets, you can see the world. You see all these exciting things going on everywhere else, just not in your boring ass suburb. You socialize with cool like-minded people from around the world. The kind of people who don't exist in your suburb.

    It is only natural that someone growing up like that will want to move to a city where there will be like minded people to socialize with and exciting things to do. Where there is no delay in obtaining the latest and greatest awesomeness.

    It was always true that the latest and greatest awesomenesses were more available in cities than anywhere else. The difference is that the Internet lets everyone know that they exist.

    It's only natural that our generation(s) will go to cities given the circumstances.
  • ummm.. what? all things aside it's a better investment then renting a property the whole time. If you buy a house you can afford you can pay your loan down quickly.
    Except it ties you to one place in a bitch of a job market. I have no interest in owning a home, it takes away my locational flexibility.
  • edited May 2010
    Except it ties you to one place in a bitch of a job market. I have no interest in owning a home, it takes away my locational flexibility.
    Ummm, only if you live somewhere that sucks. I could sell my house right now for about 50 or 60k over what I bought it 5 years ago. Lets say I want to move to an apartment after that, how many years could I live without worrying about paying for the rent (because of the money I have from the house) someplace cool. The trick is to buy property as close to the jobs as possible. (I also live near a train line that runs into the City as well).
    Post edited by Cremlian on
  • That's only if you can sell it. And that's a big if when the economy tanks and you need the money right the fuck now.
  • (I also live near a train line that runs into the City as well).
    That is NO TRAIN.
  • That's only if you can sell it. And that's a big if when the economy tanks and you need the money right the fuck now.
    Hense, why I said buy a house you can afford (I can pay my mortgage with unemployment and my investments for about 2 years) and live in an area that is A. Near a lot of jobs (in my case Big Pharm) or extremely easy to get to other areas with jobs (Local train to city down the block) as well as a bunch of Universities and schools near by and a awesome school district (blue Ribbon).
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