It runs on a track every hour and goes to the center of Philly. That's a train. (we don't have a lot of people commuting to the city, the jobs are all around us :-p)
It runs on a track every hour and goes to the center of Philly. That's a train. (we don't have a lot of people commuting to the city, the jobs are all around us :-p)
It's a train in the same way that HackMaster is an RPG.
Ummm, only if you live somewhere that sucks. I could sell my house right now for about 50 or 60k over what I bought it 5 years ago... The trick is to buy property as close to the jobs as possible.
The suburbs around Philly and in Jersey/Connecticut are in the Contiguous Urban Zone of New York City, and are very different from typical suburbs elsewhere. They all also have real local industry and commerce not tied solely to service and retail. Cremlian's in a damn good position, but someone in the same basic situation in a more distant suburb like Newburgh is not so well off (even if house value and pay are equal).
The Philly suburbs are also home to a great deal of specific industry jobs.
Occasionally I realize that New Jersey has it's own cities, I kinda view North Jersey as a Extension of New York City and Central jersey as a extension of Philadelphia.
New Jersey is the stretch of I-95 where I roll up my windows and put the air on recirculate. They also have a beach, but the water is fucking cold. Gorram Northerners and your cold-ass water.
New Jersey is a wonderful land bridge to New York.
Economically, North Jersey is basically just an extension of the urban zone of New York. The only break is that New Jersey transit is a poor simulacrum of true New York transit. But for all intents and purposes, it's like a seventh borough of New York (Yonkers being the sixth, itself basically just an extension of the Bronx).
Wow, Scott, way to show your ignorance and bias at the same time. How much of our culture specifically focuses on middle-aged suburbanites living it up? Seriously, if you think living in the suburbs is about having no fun and being bored then you have not seen the endless number of boats, swimming pools, motorcycles, hot rods, bikes, jest-skis, massive BBQs, and plethora of gadgets, gizmos, toys and hobbies available to the average suburbanite, etc. You also don't talk to many suburbanites and their vacations, clubs, dinner parties, community organizations, etc. I am not a fan of living in suburbs, personally, but that is because I like having a lot of land. I can see the appeal of rural, suburban, and urban life - to tout one as "better" than another is silly since so much depends on what aspects of life are most important to them. People are as happy/sad/board/restless as they want to be regardless of where they live. Welcome to humanity - it is what it is.
Wow, Scott, way to show your ignorance and bias at the same time. How much of our culture specifically focuses on middle-aged suburbanites living it up? Seriously, if you think living in the suburbs is about having no fun and being bored then you have not seen the endless number of boats, swimming pools, motorcycles, hot rods, bikes, jest-skis, massive BBQs, and plethora of gadgets, gizmos, toys and hobbies available to the average suburbanite, etc. You also don't talk to many suburbanites and their vacations, clubs, dinner parties, community organizations, etc.
I'm talking about for kids. They get home from school every day and they are bored as all fuck.
I'm talking about for kids. They get home from school every day and they are bored as all fuck.
If I had not commuted to an ethnically diverse high school in Chicago for all four years, I probably would have had a MASSIVE breakdown. Most kids aren't like me, but most kids are way more sheltered than they should be. I, as a suburban kid, knew how to take public transportation anywhere in the city at the age of 14. I had friends, meanwhile, who went to the local suburban high school and thought that, should they take me up on my offer to go see a show at Second City and grab some deep dish, we'd get shot or something because the city is full of crime.
I think, in a lot of ways, the fact that my family came out of Chicago and that I went back to it saved me. I am so very glad to say that I am not at all like the vast majority (read: all those kids I never really got along with) of people who grew up in the suburbs. I mean, the racism, xenophobia, islamophobia, and homophobia become apparent when you're about 12, and then you know that somehow you have to get out.
I think, in a lot of ways, the fact that my family came out of Chicago and that I went back to it saved me... I mean, the racism, xenophobia, islamophobia, and homophobia become apparent when you're about 12, and then you know that somehow you have to get out.
I had this same experience. We lived close to LAX the first few years of my life and then moved to this sheltered little beach 'burb when I started middle school. People I know who grow up here get paranoid whenever they leave the area, even had someone call Torrance/Hawthorne "the ghetto" while driving through there, which is absolutely laughable.
Living in a suburb really warps your perception. I didn't realize how much until a few years ago when I suddenly realize that I had started to become uncomfortable around black people. For someone who went to an Elementary school that was mostly made up of minorities, that was a pretty frightening realization. I eradicated that feeling soon after. The cure: Getting out more.
I'm talking about for kids. They get home from school every day and they are bored as all fuck.
You must have had an incredibly boring childhood. When I got home from school, I would grab my bike and go to my friends house. Then he would get his bike and then we'd go to another friends house. The process would repeat until we had a good 4-5 people and then go biking. We'd ride through the forest and down the super steep hills, through the burbs and to the DB Mart where we'd buy (mysql servers) drinks and then ride to the sand dunes and watch the stars come up and drink our drinks. We would take over the basement of the local public library and play video games, listen to the super old records, check out the microfilm archives, read comic books, or mess around with the computers.
Even without my friends, I had tons of adventures. I visited the fire station and they showed me all the cool equipment. I worked for a day at the local Dels Lemonade Stand and they gave me a huge bucket of watermelon flavored shaved ice. I went to the ice rink and walked across it (and fell a bunch) without skates. I took my bike to the high school running track and try to ride around as fast as I could. Use a bicycle pump to make soda bottles explode. Sled down the sand dunes at the construction sites and the DPW.
And once I got a car, OH MAN, Mayhem ensued. In my late teens (16-17) I would drive to the highschool (I was home schooled at the time) right as school was starting to let out and do mini drag races with people. I would go to the Apple Valley Mall and chase skirt at the movie theater. I could go to nearby Jazz concerts. At night, my dad and I would go war-driving and mess with peoples internet connections.
So don't you tell me kids are bored after school because they live in the 'burbs. If they are bored, it's because they want to be.
So don't you tell me kids are bored after school because they live in the 'burbs.
Depends on the burbs, friend.
As you see, I didn't go to things, I did things. My adventures were making fun out of bike and the world around me. More kids should learn that valuable lesson.
As you see, I didn't go to things, I did things. My adventures were making fun out of bike and the world around me. More kids should learn that valuable lesson.
I did things. I didn't have a boring childhood. But my burbs were not conducive to finding things to do. It's a pretty common symptom of Midwest suburbia. Everything in my area was sprawling, there were no sidewalks, residential areas were cut apart by swaths of forest preserve and crazy-busy roadways that I couldn't ride my bike on as a kid, and most activities came in the form of AYSO and stuff like that. I wasn't into sports back then. Also, our library sucked and the "happening" of the suburbs was miles away. There wasn't even a goddamn game store for a good several miles.
Trust me, I needed Chicago. If only to escape from the horrible closemindedness of everything around me, and to find something to do other in my teens other than sitting around at the mall and driving aimlessly.
Scott's critique is not true of all suburbs, to be sure. More to the point, I'd guess that the single biggest factor in this migration is nothing more complex than the lack of highly skilled work outside of the cities. Few suburbs have more than a handful of jobs that require a BS or higher, so most everyone with a worthwhile BS is either forced to let it go unused or move to a city. The best and brightest will precipitate.
Seriously, if you think living in the suburbs is about having no fun and being bored then you have not seen the endless number of boats, swimming pools, motorcycles, hot rods, bikes, jest-skis, massive BBQs, and plethora of gadgets, gizmos, toys and hobbies available to the average suburbanite.
While that was true of the wealthier suburbs of the last few decades, the point of the article is that it is no longer so. The fastest growing demographics in the burbs are the poor. The educated are leaving, and the poor are arriving. The latter are coming in much faster than the former are going out. Few of the people living there will have access to any of these luxuries if the trend continues. The suburbs, by and large, exist as a place where private luxuries reign, and there are few public ones. Even living in what was once very wealthy Sterling Heights, there was nothing in the world for a teenager to do without access to a car. The parks all closed at night, the malls and movie theatres banned anyone under 18 from entering unescorted, and the clubs/hangouts were all down in the city (Detroit) or were expensive. Without a car, you had zero access to any of this. That was fine when every single high school had their own car, but what will happen when economic realities and drastically different demographics make this not the case? Even worse, what happens when the new demographics drastically lower tax receipts due to falling property values, while simultaneously overcrowding the schools?
The Arizona suburbs are even more like this. They're so cut off from the outside world it feels like you're living in a compound. There is literally nothing within 20 miles but gas stations and identical houses, at most a single bar.
It is true that not all suburbs are this way. The town I lived in had two public pools, a public golf course, and a shopping mall. That was pretty much the only available activities for a kid other than what was officially organized. If you weren't doing extra-curricular activities organized by your school, the town, your place of worship, or something like the YMCA, you were SOL. Even if you were doing them, you still had a ton of free time. And even if you wanted to play golf and go swimming, you needed a car and money unless you lived in the really expensive houses that were within walking distance of the public facilities. You also needed money to play golf, it was just less if you were a resident. You also needed a tee time, good luck beating the old geezers in town.
Speaking of old geezers, they were pretty much completely the problem. The town consisted of nothing but old people and families. The old people kept the kids down. No, we can't allow anything fun for kids in this town. No skateboarding there, no loud noise over here, no no no no. So everyone stayed home, played video games, did drugs, had sex, whatever.
There was another town we considered moving to once because it was closer to my dad's work, Simsbury, CT. It was vastly more expensive to live there. However, the town had so much money, that there were a few more things to do. Among many things they had a public ice hockey rink, the kind that Olympians practice at. Even so, you still needed a car to get to it. It was also within driving distance of the woods and West Hartford where there was some action. But yet again, that is a case of a city being the place where the activities exist.
And as Rym has pointed out, the public activities these towns offered were only possible due to the tax money from the wealthy inhabitants. When the town becomes full of people who don't make enough to provide significant tax revenue, the public pool shuts down.
And as Rym has pointed out, the public activities these towns offered were only possible due to the tax money from the wealthy inhabitants. When the town becomes full of people who don't make enough to provide significant tax revenue, the public pool shuts down.
This is definitely a problem, actually it's more that American's in general suddenly don't want to pay for anything. They want a lot of services but they don't actually want to pay for them or even worse if they have the money to spend on it they have all their personal stuff and fuck off to people who might want a public resource since "I got mine". Stops self from going into a political rant.
This is definitely a problem, actually it's more that American's in general suddenly don't want to pay for anything. They want a lot of services but they don't actually want to pay for them or even worse if they have the money to spend on it they have all their personal stuff and fuck off to people who might want a public resource since "I got mine". Stops self from going into a political rant.
Too true. Home consoles killed the arcades. Personal swimming pools killed the public one. Computers in your house is hurting the library. Home theater hasn't yet killed the movie theater completely.
If you can afford your own, why would you pay tax money to get one that everyone can share? If you can't afford your own, you probably don't have enough tax money to afford a shared one. Therefore the only way to get public things is to have people who could afford, or already have, a private resource to willingly also pay for the same thing to be public. I think this very well explains why the kinds of public things you see are baseball fields, soccer fields, ice skating rinks, golf courses, etc. These are things that only really really rich people can own privately.
Ugh, Scott, kids (particulalry teenagers) are perpetually bored no matter where they live. In the suburbs they have big yards, pools, trampolines, are on various sports teams (hence the "Soccer Mom" suburb stereotype), have parents that ferry them nightly to all their various activities, plus, suburban families have all the same entertainment systems as everywhere else. The whole suburban stereotype is that the parents fall all over themselves to make sure their "poopsikins" have everything their little hearts desire.
In the suburbs they have big yards, pools, trampolines, are on various sports teams (
And will that remain when the primary demographic of many of these suburbs becomes the formerly urban currently suburban poor? Very few suburbs have many public facilities for anything.
In the suburbs they have big yards, pools, trampolines, are on various sports teams (
And will that remain when the primary demographic of many of these suburbs becomes the formerly urban currently suburban poor? Very few suburbs have many public facilities for anything.
Being less densely populated, the suburbs have less need of those things and schools provide many such activities. If a significant number of impoverished people move in, then the suburbs will become small, poor cities and will function like every other small, poor city - poorly until the economic climate changes. You are asking silly and obvious questions, Rym. However, if there is an exodus from the cities, many may find that the one income they couldn't live on in the city, does failry well in a suburban area owing to drastricaly lower costs of living.
If you weren't doing extra-curricular activities organized by your school, the town, your place of worship, or something like the YMCA, you were SOL. Even if you were doing them, you still had a ton of free time. And even if you wanted to play golf and go swimming, you needed a car and money unless you lived in the really expensive houses that were within walking distance of the public facilities. You also needed money to play golf, it was just less if you were a resident. You also needed a tee time, good luck beating the old geezers in town...The world of the Sandlot is long gone.
So if you didn't take part in any of the free or cheap entertainment at all, and you didn't ride a bike, have toys/games, build forts, have your own personal hobbies, play with neighbor kids at the park or in your back yards, then you would be bored? Get out of town! LOL Scott, the world of the Sandlot still exists, you are just too old to be a part of it. Kids still get together and play in fields.
Ugh, Scott, kids (particulalry teenagers) are perpetually bored no matter where they live. In the suburbs they have big yards, pools, trampolines, are on various sports teams (hence the "Soccer Mom" suburb stereotype), have parents that ferry them nightly to all their various activities, plus, suburban families have all the same entertainment systems as everywhere else. The whole suburban stereotype is that the parents fall all over themselves to make sure their "poopsikins" have everything their little hearts desire.
Kids in cities aren't bored. They're all over the place.
Scott, the world of the Sandlot still exists, you are just too old to be a part of it. Kids still get together and play in fields.
Not it doesn't because parents don't let their kids take two steps out the door unless they are supervised. They don't even let them go to job interviews alone. Meanwhile in the city, Elementary school kids just go to the park on their own with their friends, no problem.
A suburban person drives up to school in their car and grabs the kid as soon as school is out. If they let their kid ride the bus, they wait for them at the bus stop and drag them home, insuring constant supervision.
In the city, kids walk out of school and go wherever they want with their infinite metro cards, and that is perfectly normal.
Comments
The Philly suburbs are also home to a great deal of specific industry jobs.
Economically, North Jersey is basically just an extension of the urban zone of New York. The only break is that New Jersey transit is a poor simulacrum of true New York transit. But for all intents and purposes, it's like a seventh borough of New York (Yonkers being the sixth, itself basically just an extension of the Bronx).
I am not a fan of living in suburbs, personally, but that is because I like having a lot of land. I can see the appeal of rural, suburban, and urban life - to tout one as "better" than another is silly since so much depends on what aspects of life are most important to them.
People are as happy/sad/board/restless as they want to be regardless of where they live. Welcome to humanity - it is what it is.
I think, in a lot of ways, the fact that my family came out of Chicago and that I went back to it saved me. I am so very glad to say that I am not at all like the vast majority (read: all those kids I never really got along with) of people who grew up in the suburbs. I mean, the racism, xenophobia, islamophobia, and homophobia become apparent when you're about 12, and then you know that somehow you have to get out.
Living in a suburb really warps your perception. I didn't realize how much until a few years ago when I suddenly realize that I had started to become uncomfortable around black people. For someone who went to an Elementary school that was mostly made up of minorities, that was a pretty frightening realization. I eradicated that feeling soon after. The cure: Getting out more.
We would take over the basement of the local public library and play video games, listen to the super old records, check out the microfilm archives, read comic books, or mess around with the computers.
Even without my friends, I had tons of adventures. I visited the fire station and they showed me all the cool equipment. I worked for a day at the local Dels Lemonade Stand and they gave me a huge bucket of watermelon flavored shaved ice. I went to the ice rink and walked across it (and fell a bunch) without skates. I took my bike to the high school running track and try to ride around as fast as I could. Use a bicycle pump to make soda bottles explode. Sled down the sand dunes at the construction sites and the DPW.
And once I got a car, OH MAN, Mayhem ensued. In my late teens (16-17) I would drive to the highschool (I was home schooled at the time) right as school was starting to let out and do mini drag races with people. I would go to the Apple Valley Mall and chase skirt at the movie theater. I could go to nearby Jazz concerts. At night, my dad and I would go war-driving and mess with peoples internet connections.
So don't you tell me kids are bored after school because they live in the 'burbs. If they are bored, it's because they want to be.
Trust me, I needed Chicago. If only to escape from the horrible closemindedness of everything around me, and to find something to do other in my teens other than sitting around at the mall and driving aimlessly.
The Arizona suburbs are even more like this. They're so cut off from the outside world it feels like you're living in a compound. There is literally nothing within 20 miles but gas stations and identical houses, at most a single bar.
Speaking of old geezers, they were pretty much completely the problem. The town consisted of nothing but old people and families. The old people kept the kids down. No, we can't allow anything fun for kids in this town. No skateboarding there, no loud noise over here, no no no no. So everyone stayed home, played video games, did drugs, had sex, whatever.
There was another town we considered moving to once because it was closer to my dad's work, Simsbury, CT. It was vastly more expensive to live there. However, the town had so much money, that there were a few more things to do. Among many things they had a public ice hockey rink, the kind that Olympians practice at. Even so, you still needed a car to get to it. It was also within driving distance of the woods and West Hartford where there was some action. But yet again, that is a case of a city being the place where the activities exist.
And as Rym has pointed out, the public activities these towns offered were only possible due to the tax money from the wealthy inhabitants. When the town becomes full of people who don't make enough to provide significant tax revenue, the public pool shuts down.
The world of the Sandlot is long gone.
If you can afford your own, why would you pay tax money to get one that everyone can share? If you can't afford your own, you probably don't have enough tax money to afford a shared one. Therefore the only way to get public things is to have people who could afford, or already have, a private resource to willingly also pay for the same thing to be public. I think this very well explains why the kinds of public things you see are baseball fields, soccer fields, ice skating rinks, golf courses, etc. These are things that only really really rich people can own privately.
Also, what happens to the very expensive asphalt infrastructure and expansive utilities infrastructure with the rapidly declining tax base?
However, if there is an exodus from the cities, many may find that the one income they couldn't live on in the city, does failry well in a suburban area owing to drastricaly lower costs of living. So if you didn't take part in any of the free or cheap entertainment at all, and you didn't ride a bike, have toys/games, build forts, have your own personal hobbies, play with neighbor kids at the park or in your back yards, then you would be bored? Get out of town! LOL
Scott, the world of the Sandlot still exists, you are just too old to be a part of it. Kids still get together and play in fields.
A suburban person drives up to school in their car and grabs the kid as soon as school is out. If they let their kid ride the bus, they wait for them at the bus stop and drag them home, insuring constant supervision.
In the city, kids walk out of school and go wherever they want with their infinite metro cards, and that is perfectly normal.