Be in tangible (money) or intangible (time), everything we do has cost-benefit ratio. For example: Classic gamers can either go on eBay and in no time buy games for +200$, OR they could drive around to a 10 different yard sales picking through cardboard boxes looking for a 2$ deal. Both of those actions have the same rewards with different costs. Chose the one that's right for you.
I've know a "geek" that instead of paying rent went out to buy Gundam action figures. This lead to him and his girlfriend getting kicked out of their apartment. That lead to her staying with a friend of his while he lived on an army base. That lead to her sleeping with the friend she was staying with and ending the relationship. All over a few pieces of plastic.
Geekdoms can become easily become obsessions. Spending too much time or money on one aspect of life will subtract from another. Think shit all the way though.
Well the conversation began with "if you are into something you'll buy the best or you're not a real geek".
If there is something you need for your geekery, and it costs money, and it's the best, and you don't get it, then how much did you really care? If you're geekery is something like reading bad comics from the '90s, then there's nothing to spend a lot of money on. Everything for that geekery is dirt cheap.
I've know a "geek" that instead of paying rent went out to buy Gundam action figures. This lead to him and his girlfriend getting kicked out of their apartment. That lead to her staying with a friend of his while he lived on an army base. That lead to her sleeping with the friend she was staying with and ending the relationship. All over a few pieces of plastic.
I totally see a picture of this guy looking at his ex-girlfriend with his friend and hugging his Gundam and rocking back and forth saying "It was worrrrtttthhh it, my precious".
Geekdoms can become easily become obsessions. Spending too much time or money on one aspect of life will subtract from another. Think shit all the way though.
Geek to nerd to obsessive nerd to otaku to hikikomori. A slope, it can be.
If there is something you need for your geekery, and it costs money, and it's the best, and you don't get it, then how much did you really care? If you're geekery is something like reading bad comics from the '90s, then there's nothing to spend a lot of money on. Everything for that geekery is dirt cheap.
You miss the point, Scott.
You need Zeal right, you don't need the best item or thing of that geekery.
You're actually starting to come out on the Nerd end of this conversation.
I've know a "geek" that instead of paying rent went out to buy Gundam action figures. This lead to him and his girlfriend getting kicked out of their apartment. That lead to her staying with a friend of his while he lived on an army base. That lead to her sleeping with the friend she was staying with and ending the relationship. All over a few pieces of plastic.
Geekdoms can become easily become obsessions. Spending too much time or money on one aspect of life will subtract from another. Think shit all the way though.
/obvious rent food, etc. come before geekery.
However, if the cost of rent/food/bills is so great that you can't even afford your #1 geekery, then you should consider making a move. Either move to a better job, or move to a cheaper living quarters, or eat less, or do something to save a few. Even if you don't use that extra savings on geekery, you should have some savings for later in life when you're old.
I think what's just important to look at in terms of Geeknights, is that you guys are beyond normal geeks in just about every aspect. Back then, it took more work to get into anime and there wasn't a vast amount of computer concern to get the best of the best. Nowadays, there are thousands of ways to be considered geeky in terms of commitment or what you are into. It doesn't have to be as focused or a person-defining subject.
The thing that's important to see is when you are recommending better things for people to try and/or just being elitist.
I mean, sure, you can say you're committed, you can say you're enthusiastic, and you want the best you can buy - but there is a fine line between committed and ludicrous, and when it comes to cars, an even finer line between ludicrous and dead.
TL:DR - Long chatter about cars, and the main point being "Just because you can, and want to, doesn't always mean you should."
Exactly what I'm getting at. You want to buy the bestest quad core, go nuts. It's not gonna hurt you. A 500 hp car can hurt. A lot of people have no idea what that means. If you seriously want to learn to drive, I'm more than happy to teach you. Before you decide you have to have a GT-R and nothing else you should take a ride in my car and see what a car with not even 300 hp is capable of. My car can go from a stand still to 100 MPH in around 15 seconds. Under full acceleration in second gear my friend was unable to reach forward far enough to change the radio station.
You need Zeal right, you don't need the best item or thing of that geekery.
Welllll...you might not need the absolute best, but you need to recognize the need to balance frugality and quality. I can buy grain online for $1.01/pound shipped; the local homebrew store charges $1.75/pound for most things. Since the difference in quality is negligible, it makes sense to buy the stuff online. Why spend extra money needlessly? If I'm in a pinch, I can buy the more expensive grain locally, but a little planning and forethought means I save money.
Now, I mill that grain in a grain mill that I built from an old pasta maker. It didn't cost me anything in materials - I already had everything I needed - and it took a couple of hours to put it together. A proper grain mill costs upwards of $150. Yay frugality, right? Well, my homemade grain mill does the job, but it's not great. I will need to buy a proper grain mill at some point. In this instance, I already had the stuff to build the makeshift mill, so my frugality makes sense. However, if I were buying one new - if it was a choice between buying the parts to make one and just buying one - it makes a hell of a lot more sense to splurge and just get a proper mill.
This is true in all geekeries. Frugality is usually a sporadic luxury. Going well out of your way to be as frugal as possible is generally a false economy.
Welllll...you might not need theabsolute best, but you need to recognize the need to balance frugality and quality. I can buy grain online for $1.01/pound shipped; the local homebrew store charges $1.75/pound for most things. Since the difference in quality is negligible, it makes sense to buy the stuff online. Why spend extra money needlessly? If I'm in a pinch, I can buy the more expensive grain locally, but a little planning and forethought means I save money.
Now, I mill that grain in a grain mill that I built from an old pasta maker. It didn't cost me anything in materials - I already had everything I needed - and it took a couple of hours to put it together. A proper grain mill costs upwards of $150. Yay frugality, right? Well, my homemade grain mill does the job, but it's not great. I will need to buy a proper grain mill at some point. In this instance, I already had the stuff to build the makeshift mill, so my frugality makes sense. However, if I were buying one new - if it was a choice between buying the parts to make one and just buying one - it makes a hell of a lot more sense to splurge and just get a proper mill.
This is true in all geekeries. Frugality is usually a sporadic luxury. Going well out of your way to be as frugal as possible is generally a false economy.
That argument has nothing to do with whether you are a geek or not (though that above paragraph definitely makes you a geek). The point was whether you needed to buy the best thing in that geekery to be a geek in it.
For example Pete, You were a Beer Geek even before you actually started Brewing, because you put hours of time into research into the subject and could talk about it. IF you had NEVER brewed a beer for the rest of you're life you would still be a geek about Beer because of you're level of interest in the subject. Now of course you're a greater Geek of Beer.
That argument has nothing to do with whether you are a geek or not (though that above paragraph definitely makes you a geek). The point was whether you needed to buy the best thing in that geekery to be a geek in it.
If you're a serious geek about Warhammer, then you're going to have an army. That doesn't mean you're going to be stupid and pay full price. You're going to save on eBay and such. And if there's a unit that your army really needs to kick ass, you're going to get it. If you don't get it, then how much do you care? Maybe your interest in Warhammer is diminishing? Maybe you've already got the army you need, and you don't need anymore.
If you're really into PC FPS gaming, for serious, you're going to have the mouse you need. If you go to PAX, and there's a $75 mouse, you try it out, and it's awesome. It's the most comfortable, and so perfect on your hand, then you gotta get it, right? If you don't get it, then how much do you really care? Do you really care about PC FPS gaming? Maybe you like it, but does it define you as a person?
If you define your existence by a geekery, then how can you hold back? "I am a model train enthusiast." Let me see your setup. Nah, it's just a broken $5 plastic set from the Toy Store. Uh, are you really a model train enthusiast?
For example Pete, You were a Beer Geek even before you actually started Brewing, because you put hours of time into research into the subject and could talk about it. IF you had NEVER brewed a beer for the rest of you're life you would still be a geek about Beer because of you're level of interest in the subject. Now of course you're a greater Geek of Beer.
The geekery is more specific than that. He used to be a beer drinking geek. Now he is a beer brewing geek.
I disagree. For example, I was a Huge AD&D second edition geek back in the day, I knew all the rules by heart, I however only owned two books, I let other more rich people buy the books and read their copies ;-p A Warhammer player could do the same thing, they could be huge into the subject but own every little of their own.
The geekery is more specific than that. He used to be a beer drinking geek. Now he is a beer brewing geek.
Well, I'm also a beer drinking geek. I've graduated from "beer snob" to "Pete, we don't fucking care about fusel alcohols produced by excessively high fermentation temperatures." One of them is a more all-encompassing geekery. If you like to build racing cars, the odds are good that you're also a car driving geek.
I don't think Scott is saying that you always need to buy the awesomest thing ever to be a true geek. There is a point of spending that is simply wasteful. Monster Cables are a great example. They work just as well as $10 cables. Spending more is stupid. The expensive single-tier automated systems are better than the brewing equipment I have, but I don't actually need better equipment in order to brew my beer. The $1000 won't get me anything appreciable. At that point, it's better for me to eye professional-sized equipment. I'll be taking a plunge, but it's a calculated plunge. That's what I advocate. You should have a pretty good sense of the depth of the water before you jump off the cliff.
I don't think a geek always needs to be buying the bestest thing ever, but a geek will always take stock of the things they need to advance their geekery. That might mean that you decide you need the $75 mouse, and you shell out for it. That might mean that you assess your needs and decide that the current mouse you have is sufficient. We geeks are into the self-assessing.
EDIT: No geek, though, wants to pay more than they know is a fair price. That's why we also take measures to be frugal while trying to get the best stuff. We hack everything.
If you define your existence by a geekery, then how can you hold back? "I am a model train enthusiast." Let me see your setup. Nah, it's just a broken $5 plastic set from the Toy Store. Uh, are you really a model train enthusiast?
Well some people just can't afford it. I'd love to have a M3 with competiton pack or a Ferrari 458, but those vehicles are just not something I can afford. I can afford a Mazda Miata, just. Are you saying I'm less of a car geek because I can't afford the $200K supercar and have to settle for the $25K roadster. Or that I'm less of car geek because I prefer my old, beat up, and vastly inferior saab turbo to a brand new subaru STi?
I'm not even going to read anything other than the first post in this thread.
Apreche, you're being a snob. And a hypocrite as usual. See your comments regarding video cards.
Condemning a gaming geek for not buying a 90 dollar mouse is ridiculous. Your point of "buy the best if you're passionate about it" is incomplete, buy the best YOU CAN AFFORD if you are passionate about it.
EDIT: Rereading the first post just makes me think Apreche is crying over a comment, WHY DO YOU CARE? Why do you waste your time trying to defend yourself from what is just some idiot envying you? Envy and greed are BASIC emotions in humans so you're going to get told whenever you swing your dick in the open. WHY?!
I you care about it, and you need it, you'll find a way to afford it. If you don't need it, don't buy it. If you don't care about it, don't buy it. If it's useless, don't buy it. If you can find it cheaper, find it cheaper. If there's a cheaper alternative that's almost as good, or perhaps even better, get that.
Obviously nobody here can afford something like a Ferrari. But can you call yourself a car performance geek without a Ferrari, sure. Can you call yourself a car performance geek with a Saab turbo, absolutely. Can you call yourself a car performance geek with your grandma's old Buick? No.
Can you call yourself a PC FPS gamer with an old junky $5 mouse? Maybe. Maybe you're the guy who uses the old mouse and owns everybody with it. Realistically, the better mouse is really just vastly superior. If you are really serious about PC gaming, you'll invest time and or money into getting the perfect mouse for you, which ever it may be.
This makes me think of a new kind of scenario. Would Scott Rubin become a prostitute if it would allow him to get the best types of computer hardware available?
Well some people just can't afford it. I'd love to have a M3 with competiton pack or a Ferrari 458, but those vehicles are just not something I can afford. I can afford a Mazda Miata, just. Are you saying I'm less of a car geek because I can't afford the $200K supercar and have to settle for the $25K roadster. Or that I'm less of car geek because I prefer my old, beat up, and vastly inferior saab turbo to a brand new subaru STi?
Truth - I might be able to make whatever car you like dance like the moscow ballet, but right now, I'm driving a Mitsubishi Magna. I mean, sure, it's tuned to shit, and it'll bust it out when it needs to, but it's still a piece of shit. I can't afford a better car right now, because I'm saving up to go to America. Ideally, I'd piss off the magna, and use that money to pick up a decent secondhand motorbike, and save a shitload on fuel. It's not practical for me to drive some mental V8 Monster ute, or the like, because I don't have the cash right now.
Taurus I would believe, because I have seen, but one of those old boats? For serious?
It had a supercharged V6 from the factory. He threw that supercharger away and got a bigger one. And a bunch of other stuff that you probably wouldn't understand or really care about either.
It had a supercharged V6 from the factory. He threw that supercharger away and got a bigger one. And a bunch of other stuff that you probably wouldn't understand or really care about either.
Well, that's sort of cheating. That's like saying it was a Taurus and not mentioning the SHO part. I'm talking about a car that is legitimately old and shitty.
Taurus I would believe, because I have seen, but one of those old boats? For serious?
Dude, My Mini was brand new when HungryJoe was a young man(The previous owner was, in fact, one F. Flintstone of Bedrock, NSW), and had an engine displacement only a few hundred CCs bigger than my first motorbike - It'd still thrash a lot of modern cars off the line when I was done with it. There are very few limits to what you can achieve with a car, if you know how.
Can't say I've read every letter of this thread since it's growing by the minute but I just want to throw my two cents in.
I know I stirred the pot a bit in the PAX thread when debating the relative worth of air vs. auto travel, but at no point was I implying that you guys were foolishly spending stockpiles of cash. There are competing factors in every fiscal decision, the travel question and others, and if the factors for one side are more important to you personally, then go for it.
Having met them a few times, I can attest that Scott and Rym are normal peple, not the geeky equivalent of Scrooge McDuck. I can also relate to your stories. I worked crap jobs, made ends meet, and came out on the other side with an engineering degree. Now I make enough money that I can spend a decent sum on geeky desires and have no regrets.
In any case, you guys put on a great podcast that provides me with occassional entertainment on my rides to and from work. One of the reasons I have decided to stick around this forum as an outsider is that it seemed like a place where people could debate things w/o making offhand judgements such as "well you're just rich". Obviously given the length of the essay you've written here, Scott, you felt persecuted, but we're just a bunch of dudes on the internet. You earned the right to spend your money wherever the hell you want, so who are we to judge? Just keep doing what you're doing.
Comments
I've know a "geek" that instead of paying rent went out to buy Gundam action figures. This lead to him and his girlfriend getting kicked out of their apartment. That lead to her staying with a friend of his while he lived on an army base. That lead to her sleeping with the friend she was staying with and ending the relationship. All over a few pieces of plastic.
Geekdoms can become easily become obsessions. Spending too much time or money on one aspect of life will subtract from another. Think shit all the way though.
You need Zeal right, you don't need the best item or thing of that geekery.
You're actually starting to come out on the Nerd end of this conversation.
However, if the cost of rent/food/bills is so great that you can't even afford your #1 geekery, then you should consider making a move. Either move to a better job, or move to a cheaper living quarters, or eat less, or do something to save a few. Even if you don't use that extra savings on geekery, you should have some savings for later in life when you're old.
The thing that's important to see is when you are recommending better things for people to try and/or just being elitist.
Now, I mill that grain in a grain mill that I built from an old pasta maker. It didn't cost me anything in materials - I already had everything I needed - and it took a couple of hours to put it together. A proper grain mill costs upwards of $150. Yay frugality, right? Well, my homemade grain mill does the job, but it's not great. I will need to buy a proper grain mill at some point. In this instance, I already had the stuff to build the makeshift mill, so my frugality makes sense. However, if I were buying one new - if it was a choice between buying the parts to make one and just buying one - it makes a hell of a lot more sense to splurge and just get a proper mill.
This is true in all geekeries. Frugality is usually a sporadic luxury. Going well out of your way to be as frugal as possible is generally a false economy.
For example Pete, You were a Beer Geek even before you actually started Brewing, because you put hours of time into research into the subject and could talk about it. IF you had NEVER brewed a beer for the rest of you're life you would still be a geek about Beer because of you're level of interest in the subject. Now of course you're a greater Geek of Beer.
If you're really into PC FPS gaming, for serious, you're going to have the mouse you need. If you go to PAX, and there's a $75 mouse, you try it out, and it's awesome. It's the most comfortable, and so perfect on your hand, then you gotta get it, right? If you don't get it, then how much do you really care? Do you really care about PC FPS gaming? Maybe you like it, but does it define you as a person?
If you define your existence by a geekery, then how can you hold back? "I am a model train enthusiast." Let me see your setup. Nah, it's just a broken $5 plastic set from the Toy Store. Uh, are you really a model train enthusiast?
I don't think Scott is saying that you always need to buy the awesomest thing ever to be a true geek. There is a point of spending that is simply wasteful. Monster Cables are a great example. They work just as well as $10 cables. Spending more is stupid. The expensive single-tier automated systems are better than the brewing equipment I have, but I don't actually need better equipment in order to brew my beer. The $1000 won't get me anything appreciable. At that point, it's better for me to eye professional-sized equipment. I'll be taking a plunge, but it's a calculated plunge. That's what I advocate. You should have a pretty good sense of the depth of the water before you jump off the cliff.
I don't think a geek always needs to be buying the bestest thing ever, but a geek will always take stock of the things they need to advance their geekery. That might mean that you decide you need the $75 mouse, and you shell out for it. That might mean that you assess your needs and decide that the current mouse you have is sufficient. We geeks are into the self-assessing.
EDIT: No geek, though, wants to pay more than they know is a fair price. That's why we also take measures to be frugal while trying to get the best stuff. We hack everything.
Apreche, you're being a snob. And a hypocrite as usual. See your comments regarding video cards.
Condemning a gaming geek for not buying a 90 dollar mouse is ridiculous. Your point of "buy the best if you're passionate about it" is incomplete, buy the best YOU CAN AFFORD if you are passionate about it.
EDIT: Rereading the first post just makes me think Apreche is crying over a comment, WHY DO YOU CARE? Why do you waste your time trying to defend yourself from what is just some idiot envying you? Envy and greed are BASIC emotions in humans so you're going to get told whenever you swing your dick in the open. WHY?!
Obviously nobody here can afford something like a Ferrari. But can you call yourself a car performance geek without a Ferrari, sure. Can you call yourself a car performance geek with a Saab turbo, absolutely. Can you call yourself a car performance geek with your grandma's old Buick? No.
Can you call yourself a PC FPS gamer with an old junky $5 mouse? Maybe. Maybe you're the guy who uses the old mouse and owns everybody with it. Realistically, the better mouse is really just vastly superior. If you are really serious about PC gaming, you'll invest time and or money into getting the perfect mouse for you, which ever it may be.
EDIT: I'll adjust my earlier statement. Apreche's being a dumb snob.
I know I stirred the pot a bit in the PAX thread when debating the relative worth of air vs. auto travel, but at no point was I implying that you guys were foolishly spending stockpiles of cash. There are competing factors in every fiscal decision, the travel question and others, and if the factors for one side are more important to you personally, then go for it.
Having met them a few times, I can attest that Scott and Rym are normal peple, not the geeky equivalent of Scrooge McDuck. I can also relate to your stories. I worked crap jobs, made ends meet, and came out on the other side with an engineering degree. Now I make enough money that I can spend a decent sum on geeky desires and have no regrets.
In any case, you guys put on a great podcast that provides me with occassional entertainment on my rides to and from work. One of the reasons I have decided to stick around this forum as an outsider is that it seemed like a place where people could debate things w/o making offhand judgements such as "well you're just rich". Obviously given the length of the essay you've written here, Scott, you felt persecuted, but we're just a bunch of dudes on the internet. You earned the right to spend your money wherever the hell you want, so who are we to judge? Just keep doing what you're doing.