Well, that's sort of cheating. That's like saying it was a Taurus and not mentioning the SHO part. I'm talking about a car that is legitimately old and shitty.
It was old and shitty, it was only supercharged because there wasn't room to fit a V8 into the care because it was front wheel drive. Even with 3.8L and a supercharger it only made 240 hp. It was very much an old man's car, but he liked and set about making it awesome.
So please Scott, stop trying to act like you know something about car enthusiasts. You're much too logical to understand us.
My point is that you have to have something. Maybe you're car geekery is specific to taking really shitty cars and making them the best they can be. But if you say you're a computer geek, and you don't even have an Arduino, that's going to raise some eyebrows.
Scott, that last sentence, could you just confirm you meant to say that.
Scott has back pedalled his stance from "you have to buy the bestest shit always or you aren't actually a geek" to "you just have to have something in your geekery."
Scott, that last sentence, could you just confirm you meant to say that.
Scott has back pedalled his stance from "you have to buy the bestest shit always or you aren't actually a geek" to "you just have to have something in your geekery."
I still don't think that was really the point being argued.
If you're really into a geeky thing, you'll get your own stuff to be into that geeky thing. That's how it rolls. The usual hallmark of the geek is that they'll get the best stuff that they can manage to get. You can't always exactly properly afford the things you acquire, but you can figure out a way to get them without starving. That's more the point that Scott was making. The passion tends to override normal practical limits.
There are few geeks who will forsake food in order to get their geek on, but almost every geek will spend too much - time or money - on the things they want to have or do.
I think everyone's latched onto a few statements and sort of missed the point. The point here is that, if you had the money available, you would buy the best thing you could with that money. If you don't have the fundage, you'll turn to "hacking" the money you have and getting the most value for your money. It's a matter of efficiency of resource expenditure. That's yet another pillar of geekdom.
Scott has back pedalled his stance from "you have to buy the bestest shit always or you aren't actually a geek" to "you just have to have something in your geekery."
There has been no back-pedaling, Just clarifying for the hard of reading. Maybe a list will help.
1) If you're a geek, you care about something. 2) If you are a geek in a particular area, there may be something you need in that geekery that costs money. 3) If you really care about that geekery, and that something will help with that geekery, you will want that something. 4) If you have a job, you have moneys. Even after you pay bills and all that with minimum wage, you should have leftover moneys if you aren't stupid. 5) If you really care about that geekery, and that shiny thing you want is for real, then that is what you will spend that leftover moneys on. 6) If you spend that leftover moneys on something else, then obviously your geek passion for that something else was greater.*
* If that something else was a life need (medicine, transportation, food, rent, etc.) then that wasn't leftover moneys. It was non-leftover money, which should never be spent on geekery.
Also, don't tell me "can't afford". When I worked in high school, I saved for over a year to get enough to buy a Pentium III. Saving is how you afford things that are too big. If you really care about PC gaming, and you want that $90 mouse, then you should want it badly to save up for it. Your willingness to work hard for it is a demonstration of the size of your passion.
I feel like the biggest pet-peeve with the thread is that Scott has two mediums to express his superiority towards others in the forms his podcast and this forum. No matter what situation a person is into, they should have some way to relish within their geekiness or their HAPPINESS no matter what their monetary situation is. Everyone is a geek to some level, just sometimes it's just incredibly common things. It leads up to the pretension that "If you do not know how to get into hobbies, you are stupid and none of my concerns."
.... I am arguing with Scott .. I am arguing with Scott....
Ugh, I'll do it anyway. You're interest in the topic is all that matters. You might be a huge Sports car Geek, you admire them, learn all the stats and devote large portions of you're time to talking/reading about them but you don't own one because you have a wife and family or it's just not realistic for you to have it at the moment (you live in the city). You're still a sports car geek.
I think everyone's latched onto a few statements and sort of missed the point.
I may be a little guilty of this.
The point here is that, if you had the money available, you would buy the best thing you could with that money. If you don't have the fundage, you'll turn to "hacking" the money you have and getting the most value for your money. It's a matter of efficiency of resource expenditure. That's yet another pillar of geekdom.
Ha, resource management. I'm doing my math to figure out how to buy a miata.
Ugh, I'll do it anyway. You're interest in the topic is all that matters. You might be a huge Sports car Geek, you admire them, learn all the stats and devote large portions of you're time to talking/reading about them but you don't own one because you have a wife and family or it's just not realistic for you to have it at the moment (you live in the city). You're still a sports car geek.
I think you're problem is you aren't breaking down the geekeries finely enough.
You can be a sports stats geek for almost nothing. Just watch for free at home on TV. You can be a soccer geek for almost nothing, since is such a cheap game to play. You can be a golf fan just watching. To be a golf playing geek, you gotta have some clubs and balls.
If you want to say you are a PC game geek, you gotta have a rig.
If you want to say you are a PC game geek, you gotta have a rig.
I still disagree I'm a huge PC gamer and my rig is mid range (Well now it's mid range). Or are you saying you should have a "rig" i.e you put some effort into it.
I'd like to point out that I'm a cheapass with negative money (student loans) who gets almost all of her supplies from family or by putting in time and trading up (dye a $5 skein of yarn and trade it for $20 worth or fiber or yarn), and people (including Rym and Scott) still seem to consider me a fiber/knitting geek. So no, I would not say that Rym and Scott think you have to put money into something to be a geek about it. However, money is often a substitute for time. I put sufficient time into my hobbies to be able to trade that time for monetary value. I am also smart about getting the most enjoyment time out of the least amount of money. ($15 of spinning fiber will entertain me for DAYS.)
I'm also gaming geek (tabletop), but as I am poor I can't really buy many games. I put time into making friends or going to visit people who DO have games and will play them with me. I get much enjoyment out of this while spending minimal moneys.
Let's not forget that the Crew is generally awesome and helps me out in some areas I wouldn't otherwise be able to afford, like cons. But then, what goes around comes around - I can make them awesome things, cook food, or entertain them in return.
Being a geek is all about being passionate about something and finding a way to feed that passion. That may be through purchases, work, or networking. There are so many ways to enjoy your geekery and/or share it with others that trying to categorize "what qualifies as a geek" is epically stupid.
Can't everyone just agree that this is an impossible debate? Being a geek about something means you spend a higher proportion of your available resources in the pursuit of your geeky interest than the average person who shares that same interest. You may have extra time, money, energy, or a varying combination of the three.
Nobody is ever going to agree on what percentage of your available resources you need to spend to make you a a certified geek
And for those who may claim they have no surplus resources, I highly doubt anyone is spending every waking breath, every ounce of physical energy, and every last dollar, solely to provide for their basic human needs, or you wouldn't be sitting on a frigging internet forum (unless you are an internet forum geek.... oh no what have i done).
I'm talking about a car that is legitimately old and shitty.
And you were also still talking about any performance geeking. You completely forgot to factor in the challenge of taking an old and shitty car and making it awesome on a shoe string budget. Not every performance geek will care about TOP OF THE BEST OF THE GREATEST OF THE MOST TUNEABLE CARS to fiddle with for fun.
Scott has been describing his point poorly. I think I can sum it up better.
"YOU ARE A CRACKHEAD. WHY DON'T YOU OWN A CRACKPIPE? "
Geeks are people who will always want the best for their geekery. Best doesn't always mean objectively "best" from some cost or performance metric: it means best for their geekery.
Into cars? Like getting a crap car up and running? A crap car is the best option for you. Can't afford even a crap car? Books, friends' cars, stolen cars: any of these may be the best you can do given your situation and level of desire.
If you want the pigeon, get it. If you can't get it, you either don't want it enough are aren't in a position where you can feasibly get it. The pigeon is behind a fence. If you really want that pigeon, you'll hop the fence. Some people give up everything else in their lives just to get the pigeon. You probably shouldn't do that, but if you really, really want it, go for it.
Scott and I have the money to buy whatever pigeons we want. This wasn't always the case. I wanted the Otakon pigeon, and I sacrificed rent and food for it. I wanted the ACEN pigeon, so I drove 1000 miles. I wanted the Tribes 2 pigeon. I chose not to buy textbooks.
If you're a crackhead, buy a crackpipe. If you can't, and don't foresee a time when you ever will, maybe you shouldn't be a crackhead. Maybe you're more of a crack-enthusiast. Maybe you watch other people use crack, or you try to make it yourself. Express your crackheadedness in some other way that doesn't require a crackpipe. But if you can afford the crackpipe, and you want to be a crackhead, what the fuck are you doing stealing sparkplugs?
I never loved the pigeon analogy. It assumes that the pigeon is worth grabbing and won't peck at your hand once you have it. It also doesn't give any degrees of success. Either you have that pigeon or you don't have that pigeon.
The argument you're making is for those geeks with an elitist mentality. Those of us who need to have the l33t gear and most cutting edge gadgets. It gives you energy and drive to do what you need to do to get what you want, but not everyone has or needs that mentality. I'm so glad not all geeks are elitists. I'm more of a casual geek, and that works for me. I don't own any German boardgames, but I like to play them with my friends and listen to them ramble on about them. I enjoy good beer, but I'm not shy about texting Pete for an opinion when I need it.
I don't need to grab the pigeon to appreciate it.
Moral: Be happy. If you're not happy, start changing things until you are happy.
Comments
So please Scott, stop trying to act like you know something about car enthusiasts. You're much too logical to understand us.
EDIT: added a forgotten negative.
If you're really into a geeky thing, you'll get your own stuff to be into that geeky thing. That's how it rolls. The usual hallmark of the geek is that they'll get the best stuff that they can manage to get. You can't always exactly properly afford the things you acquire, but you can figure out a way to get them without starving. That's more the point that Scott was making. The passion tends to override normal practical limits.
There are few geeks who will forsake food in order to get their geek on, but almost every geek will spend too much - time or money - on the things they want to have or do.
I think everyone's latched onto a few statements and sort of missed the point. The point here is that, if you had the money available, you would buy the best thing you could with that money. If you don't have the fundage, you'll turn to "hacking" the money you have and getting the most value for your money. It's a matter of efficiency of resource expenditure. That's yet another pillar of geekdom.
1) If you're a geek, you care about something.
2) If you are a geek in a particular area, there may be something you need in that geekery that costs money.
3) If you really care about that geekery, and that something will help with that geekery, you will want that something.
4) If you have a job, you have moneys. Even after you pay bills and all that with minimum wage, you should have leftover moneys if you aren't stupid.
5) If you really care about that geekery, and that shiny thing you want is for real, then that is what you will spend that leftover moneys on.
6) If you spend that leftover moneys on something else, then obviously your geek passion for that something else was greater.*
* If that something else was a life need (medicine, transportation, food, rent, etc.) then that wasn't leftover moneys. It was non-leftover money, which should never be spent on geekery.
Also, don't tell me "can't afford". When I worked in high school, I saved for over a year to get enough to buy a Pentium III. Saving is how you afford things that are too big. If you really care about PC gaming, and you want that $90 mouse, then you should want it badly to save up for it. Your willingness to work hard for it is a demonstration of the size of your passion.
Ugh, I'll do it anyway. You're interest in the topic is all that matters. You might be a huge Sports car Geek, you admire them, learn all the stats and devote large portions of you're time to talking/reading about them but you don't own one because you have a wife and family or it's just not realistic for you to have it at the moment (you live in the city). You're still a sports car geek.
You can be a sports stats geek for almost nothing. Just watch for free at home on TV. You can be a soccer geek for almost nothing, since is such a cheap game to play. You can be a golf fan just watching. To be a golf playing geek, you gotta have some clubs and balls.
If you want to say you are a PC game geek, you gotta have a rig.
I'm also gaming geek (tabletop), but as I am poor I can't really buy many games. I put time into making friends or going to visit people who DO have games and will play them with me. I get much enjoyment out of this while spending minimal moneys.
Let's not forget that the Crew is generally awesome and helps me out in some areas I wouldn't otherwise be able to afford, like cons. But then, what goes around comes around - I can make them awesome things, cook food, or entertain them in return.
Being a geek is all about being passionate about something and finding a way to feed that passion. That may be through purchases, work, or networking. There are so many ways to enjoy your geekery and/or share it with others that trying to categorize "what qualifies as a geek" is epically stupid.
Nobody is ever going to agree on what percentage of your available resources you need to spend to make you a a certified geek
And for those who may claim they have no surplus resources, I highly doubt anyone is spending every waking breath, every ounce of physical energy, and every last dollar, solely to provide for their basic human needs, or you wouldn't be sitting on a frigging internet forum (unless you are an internet forum geek.... oh no what have i done).
A. It's nice to spend money on luxury items.
B. About Scott.
You're still a stupid snob.
Zeal in the pursuit of knowledge on a topic defines you as a geek v. non-geek.
"YOU ARE A CRACKHEAD. WHY DON'T YOU OWN A CRACKPIPE? "
Geeks are people who will always want the best for their geekery. Best doesn't always mean objectively "best" from some cost or performance metric: it means best for their geekery.
Into cars? Like getting a crap car up and running? A crap car is the best option for you. Can't afford even a crap car? Books, friends' cars, stolen cars: any of these may be the best you can do given your situation and level of desire.
If you want the pigeon, get it. If you can't get it, you either don't want it enough are aren't in a position where you can feasibly get it. The pigeon is behind a fence. If you really want that pigeon, you'll hop the fence. Some people give up everything else in their lives just to get the pigeon. You probably shouldn't do that, but if you really, really want it, go for it.
Scott and I have the money to buy whatever pigeons we want. This wasn't always the case. I wanted the Otakon pigeon, and I sacrificed rent and food for it. I wanted the ACEN pigeon, so I drove 1000 miles. I wanted the Tribes 2 pigeon. I chose not to buy textbooks.
If you're a crackhead, buy a crackpipe. If you can't, and don't foresee a time when you ever will, maybe you shouldn't be a crackhead. Maybe you're more of a crack-enthusiast. Maybe you watch other people use crack, or you try to make it yourself. Express your crackheadedness in some other way that doesn't require a crackpipe. But if you can afford the crackpipe, and you want to be a crackhead, what the fuck are you doing stealing sparkplugs?
1) Spend money on experiences, not things.
The argument you're making is for those geeks with an elitist mentality. Those of us who need to have the l33t gear and most cutting edge gadgets. It gives you energy and drive to do what you need to do to get what you want, but not everyone has or needs that mentality. I'm so glad not all geeks are elitists. I'm more of a casual geek, and that works for me. I don't own any German boardgames, but I like to play them with my friends and listen to them ramble on about them. I enjoy good beer, but I'm not shy about texting Pete for an opinion when I need it.
I don't need to grab the pigeon to appreciate it.
Moral: Be happy. If you're not happy, start changing things until you are happy.