That poem, "The Walrus and the Carpenter," that's an indictment of organized religion. The walrus, with his girth and his good nature, he obviously represents either Buddha, or, or with his tusks, the Hindu elephant god, Lord Ganesha. That takes care of your Eastern religions. Now the carpenter, which is an obvious reference to Jesus Christ, who was raised a carpenter's son, he represents the Western religions. Now in the poem, what do they do? What do they do? They, they dupe all these oysters into following them and then proceed to shuck and devour the helpless creatures en masse. I don't know what that says to you, but to me it says that following these faiths based on mythological figures ensures the destruction of one's inner being. Organized religion destroys who we are by inhibiting our actions, by inhibiting our decisions out of, out of fear of some, some intangible parent figure who, who shakes a finger at us from thousands of years ago and says, and says, "Do it... do it and I'll fuckin' spank you."
I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant.
Science shows that religion causes brain damage. Or maybe brain damage causes religion. Or maybe neither because the study is based on a sample size of only 270 people. Whatever, its good enough for a flamewar.
Wow, OK, that was not a "haha Joe you're old joke." At all. You were in undergrad nearly 30 years ago. No, I'm not at all saying that you're old. I'm saying that medical science has changed in the last 30 years. I'm saying that 30 years ago, we didn't have the glut of undergrads that we do now. I'm saying that in the last 30 years, we've learned a lot more about anatomy and physiology. I'm saying that in the last 30 years, we've gained a lot more things that we need to teach.
So yeah, I'm saying that an A & P class today is very different than an A & P class from almost 30 years ago. And you know what? Yes, I'm saying that people who were in undergrad nearly 30 years ago probably received a subpar education compared to what you can get now. But I'm not saying that today's doctors are under-educated - far from it. Doctors train constantly and have to stay on top of the latest techniques and information. And any thinking person will constantly strive to learn. What you learned in a university setting 30 years ago is subpar compared to what you can learn now.
So that A & P class nearly 30 years ago was incomplete compared to an A & P class today. And in those 30 years, doctors and scientists have learned lots of things that are now being taught in undergrad. I dare you to find me a doctor who thinks that everything he knows today was taught to him 30 years ago.
That's how university level education works; the best and brightest find new things and then teach those new things to students, who then strive to be the best and the brightest and pass on their knowledge to the next generation, and so forth.
You took way, way, way too much out of that comment.
BTW, Cremlian agreed that a professor wouldn't necessarily need to accept evolution to teach a survey A & P class, so maybe he's staggeringly ignorant as well.
I never ever ever ever said or implied this. Fuck you. In fact, I said precisely the opposite. I fucking agreed with you. Right fucking here. It went on for two pages.
Stop over-reacting to shit like this. It's irritating in the extreme.
EDIT:
a person can become a Physical Therapist by completing a two year program after college
And a lawyer only needs 3 years of school post-college.
and a person can become an RN by obtaining an associates degree
From the BLS:
Advancement opportunities may be more limited for ADN and diploma holders compared to RNs who obtain a BSN or higher. Individuals who complete a bachelor's degree receive more training in areas such as communication, leadership, and critical thinking, all of which are becoming more important as nursing practice becomes more complex. Additionally, bachelor's degree programs offer more clinical experience in nonhospital settings. A bachelor's or higher degree is often necessary for administrative positions, research, consulting, and teaching
So sure you can, but it's a limited job. In order to advance and have any opportunities, you need a higher degree of education. This is hardly under-educated.
especially that Pharmacy Tech. Wow, that's a lot of education
From the BLS:
Formal technician education programs are available through a variety of organizations, including community colleges, vocational schools, hospitals, and the military. These programs range from 6 months to 2 years and include classroom and laboratory work. They cover a variety of subject areas, such as medical and pharmaceutical terminology, pharmaceutical calculations, pharmacy recordkeeping, pharmaceutical techniques, and pharmacy law and ethics. Technicians also are required to learn the names, actions, uses, and doses of the medications they work with. Many training programs include internships, in which students gain hands-on experience in actual pharmacies. After completion, students receive a diploma, a certificate, or an associate’s degree, depending on the program.
As much as a doctor? No. But that's still a lot of specific education. And with today's drug market, you're going to have to learn a lot more stuff than you would have 30 years ago.
Job requirements are what you need to get your foot in the door. That's not what it takes to actually do the complete job. Once you get there, there's a lot of on-the-job training, which is part of education.
hysician's Assistant by completing a two year program, not necessarily requiring a college degree
From the BLS:
Most applicants to PA educational programs already have a college degree and some health-related work experience; however, admissions requirements vary from program to program. Many PAs have prior experience as registered nurses, emergency medical technicians, and paramedics
And this is only talking about entry into the educational program, not what it takes to actually get the job. Many many many PA positions require more than that.
So no, it's not as easy as you think to be medical personnel. And yes, they're highly educated.
a person can become a Physical Therapist by completing a two year program after college
6 years of education isn't "highly educated?" Lawyers only need 7.
Pete, I wasn't the only one who took it that way. I wasn't going to respond to your post until I saw that WindUpBird read the same sort of tone in that post that I did, so I don't think my response was an overreaction at all. If someone else took it to have the same tone, and you didn't intend it to have that tone, maybe your writing was just very poor.
As for overreaction, just look at the title of this fucking thread. Do you think this sort of joke doesn't get fucking tiresome after the sixtieth or seventieth time it's pulled?
Further, I see that you think you're clever by saying that lawyers need seven years of education while physician's assistants need six. I don't think a "program" that can be completed in two years as described by the National Bureau of Labor Statistics is in any way commensurate with three years of rigorous graduate school that's highly selective of who is admitted and actively seeks to weed out students even after they start, followed by a highly selective licensing certification test and procedure, not to mention the many hours of continuing legal education requirements. I mean, really. Are you really trying to tell me that you think a physician's assistant's education is the same as an lawyer's?
And, so what about my education, Pete? Is it useless since it's about thirty years old? Should I just kill myself now, or do I maybe still have some value left as protein and body parts? Maybe I should just pull out my liver right now and put in on ice for someone younger, but right now, I'm worried that it's not educated enough.
Edit: Finally, guess what? The A & P course I was talking about, I took this year. It was a survey course, not an upper level course, but when I described it, I was joking about how the lectures went.
Actually, though, knowing the opinion you must have of the rest of my education, it was probably the best, most rigorous, most highly advanced course I ever had in my life.
This fall, I'm registered to take organic chemistry, but I guess I'll have to re-evaluate my goals and maybe start back at seventh grade, or would that be giving my old education too much credit?
Further edit: you know, I just thought of this. Since I just completed my A & P course this year, by your standard of newer-is-always-better, it was probably a better course than whatever you took, since you probably took your course at least more than one year ago.
Are you really trying to tell me that you think a physician's assistant's education is the same as an lawyer's?
Actually, it's probably harder. As a PA, you have to figure out how to, like, treat illnesses and stuff. A lawyer knows how to look things up. Oooh. Hard.
Are you really trying to tell me that you think a physician's assistant's education is the same as an lawyer's?
Actually, it's probably harder. As a PA, you have to figure out how to, like, treat illnesses and stuff. A lawyer knows how to look things up. Oooh. Hard.
No, a paralegal looks stuff up. Maybe you education is already too old.
Just for your personal knowledge, a lawyer has to know how to successfully navigate complex procedure that often changes and successfully persuade a tribunal that his client is right. That actually is very hard. I'd like to see you do it.
Tell you what. You go get a successful career as a PA, and I'll go get a successful career as a lawyer. We'll compare diplomas some years down the road.
lawyer has to know how to successfully navigate complex procedure that often changes
Thank god medical treatment is a static field. A PA might have to think otherwise!
Come right up! Come right up! See two grown men fight like spoiled kids! Unbelievable! I think their goalpost are so far up their asses that they can't help but move them, so come right up and enjoy the tomfoolery, oh the drama! The passion!
Guys, seriously. This forum prides itself on it's maturity, this is obviously not the flagship of that creed.
Tell you what. You go get a successful career as a PA, and I'll go get a successful career as a lawyer. We'll compare diplomas some years down the road.
But, by your reckoning, in a few years, both degrees will be worthless because they'll be old. I think I'll just continue taking my biology and chemistry courses now (imagine that - you don't necessarily have to stop taking classes just because you have a degree), and know that when you assume I took one of these courses thirty years ago, you're just showing how little you know about my education and how stupid it makes people look when they assume they know things they don't.
Come right up! Come right up! See two grown men fight like spoiled kids! Unbelievable! I think their goalpost are so far up their asses that they can't help but move them, so come right up and enjoy the tomfoolery, oh the drama! The passion!
Guys, seriously. This forum prides itself on it's maturity, this is obviously not the flagship of that creed.
This is a "Flamewar" thread. The category of the thread allows for different behavior.
This is like paintball, or a food fight. Sometimes it's nice to let off steam by acting immature, especially when you're an actual adult and you have to be mature all the time. You probably wouldn't know about that.
This is like paintball, or a food fight. Sometimes it's nice to let off steam by acting immature, especially when you're an actual adult and you have to be mature all the time. You probably wouldn't know about that.
Watch as they come up with excuses to make for for their assholery!
This is like paintball, or a food fight. Sometimes it's nice to let off steam by acting immature, especially when you're an actual adult and you have to be mature all the time. You probably wouldn't know about that.
Watch as they come up with excuses to make for for their assholery!
I don't need an excuse. I'm an arrogant presumptuous asshole. Excuses are for pussies and middle school children.
both degrees will be worthless because they'll be old
Ahhhhh.... Enterprise IT. I make more money than all of you, do less work, get more vacation, and sip gin and tonics while gazing at the Manhattan skyline with my lovely girlfriend and rabbits.
Then that's a counter-example to your theory. My "old" JD is worth a lot more than these new kids' JDs. I have a job and they don't. You're right about you being an arrogant, presumptuous, asshole, though, and it's not like you actually have anything to be arrogant about.
Also, Rym, I'd be very surprised if you make more money than me. You might be doing okay, but just because you're doing okay doesn't mean you make more than everyone else. You just make yourself sound foolish when you say stupid shit like that.
Ahhhhh.... Enterprise IT. I make more money than all of you, do less work, get more vacation, and sip gin and tonics while gazing at the Manhattan skyline with my lovely girlfriend and rabbits.
Working towards MD in Radiology:
1) Sign up with teleradiology firm 2) Travel around the world, living in beautiful apartments getting paid hundreds of thousands (sometimes with per diem) to do work other American radiologists are too busy sleeping to do, all while just chilling in front of a PC waiting for films to arrive. 3) ???? 4) PROFIT!!!!
Except the ???? is actually "See the world and have a treasure trove of priceless experiences." Goddamn radiology is fucking awesome.
Ahhhhh.... Enterprise IT. I make more money than all of you, do less work, get more vacation, and sip gin and tonics while gazing at the Manhattan skyline with my lovely girlfriend and rabbits.
Working towards MD in Radiology:
1) Sign up with teleradiology firm 2) Travel around the world, living in beautiful apartments getting paid hundreds of thousands (sometimes with per diem) to do work other American radiologists are too busy sleeping to do, all while just chilling in front of a PC waiting for films to arrive. 3) ???? 4) PROFIT!!!!
Except the ???? is actually "See the world and have a treasure trove of priceless experiences." Goddamn radiology is fucking awesome.
Rym will still say he makes more than you. Oh yeah, he's also younger and smarter than you too, at least in his personal fable, anyway.
Comments
So yeah, I'm saying that an A & P class today is very different than an A & P class from almost 30 years ago. And you know what? Yes, I'm saying that people who were in undergrad nearly 30 years ago probably received a subpar education compared to what you can get now. But I'm not saying that today's doctors are under-educated - far from it. Doctors train constantly and have to stay on top of the latest techniques and information. And any thinking person will constantly strive to learn. What you learned in a university setting 30 years ago is subpar compared to what you can learn now.
So that A & P class nearly 30 years ago was incomplete compared to an A & P class today. And in those 30 years, doctors and scientists have learned lots of things that are now being taught in undergrad. I dare you to find me a doctor who thinks that everything he knows today was taught to him 30 years ago.
That's how university level education works; the best and brightest find new things and then teach those new things to students, who then strive to be the best and the brightest and pass on their knowledge to the next generation, and so forth.
You took way, way, way too much out of that comment. I never ever ever ever said or implied this. Fuck you. In fact, I said precisely the opposite. I fucking agreed with you. Right fucking here. It went on for two pages.
Stop over-reacting to shit like this. It's irritating in the extreme.
EDIT: And a lawyer only needs 3 years of school post-college. From the BLS: So sure you can, but it's a limited job. In order to advance and have any opportunities, you need a higher degree of education. This is hardly under-educated. From the BLS: As much as a doctor? No. But that's still a lot of specific education. And with today's drug market, you're going to have to learn a lot more stuff than you would have 30 years ago.
Job requirements are what you need to get your foot in the door. That's not what it takes to actually do the complete job. Once you get there, there's a lot of on-the-job training, which is part of education. From the BLS: And this is only talking about entry into the educational program, not what it takes to actually get the job. Many many many PA positions require more than that.
So no, it's not as easy as you think to be medical personnel. And yes, they're highly educated. 6 years of education isn't "highly educated?" Lawyers only need 7.
As for overreaction, just look at the title of this fucking thread. Do you think this sort of joke doesn't get fucking tiresome after the sixtieth or seventieth time it's pulled?
Further, I see that you think you're clever by saying that lawyers need seven years of education while physician's assistants need six. I don't think a "program" that can be completed in two years as described by the National Bureau of Labor Statistics is in any way commensurate with three years of rigorous graduate school that's highly selective of who is admitted and actively seeks to weed out students even after they start, followed by a highly selective licensing certification test and procedure, not to mention the many hours of continuing legal education requirements. I mean, really. Are you really trying to tell me that you think a physician's assistant's education is the same as an lawyer's?
And, so what about my education, Pete? Is it useless since it's about thirty years old? Should I just kill myself now, or do I maybe still have some value left as protein and body parts? Maybe I should just pull out my liver right now and put in on ice for someone younger, but right now, I'm worried that it's not educated enough.
Edit: Finally, guess what? The A & P course I was talking about, I took this year. It was a survey course, not an upper level course, but when I described it, I was joking about how the lectures went.
Actually, though, knowing the opinion you must have of the rest of my education, it was probably the best, most rigorous, most highly advanced course I ever had in my life.
This fall, I'm registered to take organic chemistry, but I guess I'll have to re-evaluate my goals and maybe start back at seventh grade, or would that be giving my old education too much credit?
Further edit: you know, I just thought of this. Since I just completed my A & P course this year, by your standard of newer-is-always-better, it was probably a better course than whatever you took, since you probably took your course at least more than one year ago.
Just for your personal knowledge, a lawyer has to know how to successfully navigate complex procedure that often changes and successfully persuade a tribunal that his client is right. That actually is very hard. I'd like to see you do it.
Guys, seriously. This forum prides itself on it's maturity, this is obviously not the flagship of that creed.
This is like paintball, or a food fight. Sometimes it's nice to let off steam by acting immature, especially when you're an actual adult and you have to be mature all the time. You probably wouldn't know about that.
Ahhhhh.... Enterprise IT. I make more money than all of you, do less work, get more vacation, and sip gin and tonics while gazing at the Manhattan skyline with my lovely girlfriend and rabbits.
Also, Rym, I'd be very surprised if you make more money than me. You might be doing okay, but just because you're doing okay doesn't mean you make more than everyone else. You just make yourself sound foolish when you say stupid shit like that.
1) Sign up with teleradiology firm
2) Travel around the world, living in beautiful apartments getting paid hundreds of thousands (sometimes with per diem) to do work other American radiologists are too busy sleeping to do, all while just chilling in front of a PC waiting for films to arrive.
3) ????
4) PROFIT!!!!
Except the ???? is actually "See the world and have a treasure trove of priceless experiences." Goddamn radiology is fucking awesome.