Although he does not appear in person until the last third of the novel, he is the object of its often-repeated question "Who is John Galt?" and of the quest to discover the answer.
Wow, a Randian superhero! Cool! Alas, I'm not worthy.
I do want to ask a question though. Who is greedier: the person who goes out and makes millions of dollars or the person who sits in the park and demands that you give it to him?
Stupid is as stupid does. If you live in the U.S. today, you have amazing freedoms, far greater than elsewhere. Opportunity abounds, especially if you have a good attitude and you are willing to work. Given this environment, if the best thing you can come up with is to occupy public places to try to force other people to solve your problems and your perception of the problems of others, you are stupid.
The cop thing was a lucky break for the OWS folks. Lots of good PR because no reasonable person (not even me) thinks that pepper spraying non-violent protestors is a good idea. If it were a movement against the police state, I might even protest too. But it's not. The pepper spray event was just a collision of stupidity on both sides but it will help the protesters.
The fact that the super committee failed so miserably disheartens me to a very sincere degree. I'd held out hope that we'd see another last-minute agreement to avert crisis, but apparently our politicians really don't care anymore.
I'm torn between being very, very sad and very, very angry. The problem is, I don't really feel like I can do anything productive with this. I'm pretty damn busy keeping myself employed.
Which crisis are you referring to? There is a crisis of our stagnating economy and then there is a "crisis" about bond vigilantes that will steal our children at night if we don't cut medicare. The waters are very muddy on these things so we need to be clear on terms.
Stupid is as stupid does. If you live in the U.S. today, you have amazing freedoms, far greater than elsewhere. Opportunity abounds, especially if you have a good attitude and you are willing to work.
True, but you're forgetting part of the picture. There are huge pitfalls scattered randomly throughout life, one which we as a society could fix. Things like diseases, lack of available jobs and crippling student loans.
If nothing bad happens, you can pull yourself up, and everything is great, but if something goes wrong, you have nowhere to go in America.
The fact that the super committee failed so miserably disheartens me to a very sincere degree. I'd held out hope that we'd see another last-minute agreement to avert crisis, but apparently our politicians really don't care anymore.
I'm torn between being very, very sad and very, very angry. The problem is, I don't really feel like I can do anything productive with this. I'm pretty damn busy keeping myself employed.
Which crisis are you referring to? There is a crisis of our stagnating economy and then there is a "crisis" about bond vigilantes that will steal our children at night if we don't cut medicare. The waters are very muddy on these things so we need to be clear on terms.
Stagnating economy, mostly. Also I'm thinking that the failure of the Senate to reach any sort of real compromise is a crisis in and of itself, as if that mechanism looks like it's failing then a large part of what makes our government works, ceases to. Does that make sense?
Bronzdragon, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone trying to help you in America. Food stamps are now debit card like, people without insurance still get healthcare and no matter what problem you have there's a program for it. Plus, let's not forget about charitable organizations which are plentiful.
Moreover, the protesters aren't even in that camp! If you looked at the OWS folks and saw genuinely disenfranchised, suffering people it might be different. They are neither.
Have you ever traveled outside the U.S.? Have you ever seen real poverty?
Stupid is as stupid does. If you live in the U.S. today, you have amazing freedoms, far greater than elsewhere. Opportunity abounds, especially if you have a good attitude and you are willing to work. Given this environment, if the best thing you can come up with is to occupy public places to try to force other people to solve your problems and your perception of the problems of others, you are stupid.
From the Bank of England via Krugman In fact, high pre-crisis returns to banking had a much more mundane explanation. They reflected simply increased risk-taking across the sector. This was not an outward shift in the portfolio possibility set of finance. Instead, it was a traverse up the high-wire of risk and return.
So a lot of banks played roulette with hard working people's money, wrecked the economy and got millions in bonuses. There are around 4 or 5 job applicants per job opening meaning there is literally no job available for the majority of unemployed. Bank and Wall Street bonuses are already rivalling pre crisis levels.
Unless you are suggesting OWS should be burning shit down rather than peacefully protesting I don't have any idea what your point is.
Bronzdragon, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone trying to help you in America. Food stamps are now debit card like, people without insurance still get healthcare and no matter what problem you have there's a program for it. Plus, let's not forget about charitable organizations which are plentiful.
Charity organizations are getting less and less funding as the economy stagnates. I guess you think we should stop providing food stamps so the lazy people can starve to death? Or at least make people on food stamps feel ashamed about it. the healthcare no matter what refers to going to an emergency room and not paying I guess? We could stop doing that and let people die too so they aren't so lazy?
Moreover, the protesters aren't even in that camp! If you looked at the OWS folks and saw genuinely disenfranchised, suffering people it might be different. They are neither.
Have you ever traveled outside the U.S.? Have you ever seen real poverty?
Shorter Thaed: If you aren't riddled with dysentery and have a distended belly what the hell are you complaining about?
There are around 4 or 5 job applicants per job opening meaning there is literally no job available for the majority of unemployed.
Didn't this very podcast run a news story about how no one would take that job on a farm? Not to mention the military will take you up until the age of 35 now, and the peace corps is always looking for people.
Moreover, the protesters aren't even in that camp! If you looked at the OWS folks and saw genuinely disenfranchised, suffering people it might be different. They are neither.
Have you ever traveled outside the U.S.? Have you ever seen real poverty?
Shorter Thaed: If you aren't riddled with dysentery and have a distended belly what the hell are you complaining about?
I actually have traveled outside of the US and seen real, crippling poverty. I did aid work in Guatemala near a "town" (read: an area annihilated by mudslides) where the "houses" were US-AID huts built from drywall and gaffer tape. Kids ran around without shoes on streets littered with broken glass because shoes were too valuable to waste on playing. Hardly anyone had a refrigerator, and water had to be trucked in because Lake Atitlan is too dirty to drink from. Electricity came from a small oil-fired plant on the outside of town that billowed black smoke. It was near a small goat abattoir and several coffee plantations.
So yeah, I've seen real poverty, and I've worked with people in terrible conditions, but I still support OWS. The thing is that we're supposed to be a country that is so far beyond that type of life, a country that's supposed to define "first world," and yet almost identical conditions exist in certain parts of Appalachia. The idea shouldn't be, "It could be worse, stop whining," but rather, "We know it could be so much better, so why isn't it?"
Didn't this very podcast run a news story about how no one would take that job on a farm? Not to mention the military will take you up until the age of 35 now, and the peace corps is always looking for people.
It did. However, that job is unskilled labor which doesn't provide opportunity or means to advance. GeekNights also ran a story (or I read it in this forum) about companies not hiring for actual skill positions, unless the applicant already has a job. They are literally not hiring the unemployed. So if you actually have an education and actual skills but are unemployed, you may have a harder time to get a job than if you have no education and no talent.
Normally, I don't speak on this stuff because my opinion is in the minority. But for some reason, I'm going for it today so let's have at it. I'm not a troll, but I am questioning your premises. I love the vague "banks speculated and people suffered" offered up as proof of something. Please leave the coffee shop and get some real world experience. Krugman is tying together many different concepts and coming up with the idea that more government is going to help. That's really passion over logic. Boom and bust happens all the time.
Individuals and groups of individuals create wealth. Wealth creation does not happen via government action. Just ask the people of Greece.
I can't change your minds about this or about OWS or probably anything for that matter. But I can tell you some truth. Life is as simple as knowing what you want. If you want something, develop and use your talents and achieve it. If you wait for the government to do it, you'll be waiting your life away.
Thaed is the 1%. He admitted to buying a Porsche and never driving it. Basically, nothing he says on this issue counts.
Et tu, Scott? I can stop talking if you want. But Scott is right. I am in the 1%. Do you want to burn my house down and take my stuff? Do you care how I got to be 1%? Does it matter?
My opinions have no validity because I started with nothing, worked very hard and am successful?
Individuals and groups of individuals create wealth. Wealth creation does not happen via government action. Just ask the people of Greece.
Wirtschaftswunder.
I can't change your minds about this or about OWS or probably anything for that matter. But I can tell you some truth. Life is as simple as knowing what you want. If you want something, develop and use your talents and achieve it. If you wait for the government to do it, you'll be waiting your life away.
I believe you misunderstand the intention of OWS. These people aren't looking for the government to solve their problems. What they are looking for is an opportunity to solve their own problems, and they don't believe they have one yet. It's hard to fault them considering that companies aren't actually hiring skilled personnel and you are in debt already because you are trying to keep your house or you just came out of the ridiculously expensive american college system. Meanwhile, big companies have record profits and CEOs are making more money than ever before.
Bullshit. That's literally impossible. Were you created from nothing? No? Then you were born with things. A social network, resources by way of your parents, education from someone else, and so on.
Unless you were birthed fully-formed from a void from beyond, you have relied on other people from day 1 to get you where you are now. There is no such thing as doing it yourself.
So pardon me if I don't buy into political autism.
Thaed is the 1%. He admitted to buying a Porsche and never driving it. Basically, nothing he says on this issue counts.
Et tu, Scott? I can stop talking if you want. But Scott is right. I am in the 1%. Do you want to burn my house down and take my stuff? Do you care how I got to be 1%? Does it matter?
My opinions have no validity because I started with nothing, worked very hard and am successful?
I think they should hire you as a spokesperson, because I don't think that's what their intentions are at all. But this opportunity you speak of, would that be debt forgiveness? Going to need the government for that. They overpaid for an education and in the meantime someone moved their cheese? Time to figure out something else then, isn't it? No, wait, I have a better idea. I'm going to sit in a park and protest about it!
Bullshit. That's literally impossible. Were you created from nothing? No? Then you were born with things. A social network, resources by way of your parents, education from someone else, and so on.
Unless you were birthed fully-formed from a void from beyond, you have relied on other people from day 1 to get you where you are now. There is no such thing as doing it yourself.
So pardon me if I don't buy into political autism.
Thanks for putting this more eloquently than I could, right now it's just curse words going through my head. I've got someone who has basically told me the same exact thing that Thaed has said here on the forum, but to my face, and he lives in my family-in-law. It's hard arguing with them.
Look, you guys are getting angry at me personally and I would prefer not to have that so I'm going to do what I should have done in the beginning and stop arguing on the internet.
Whaleshark, please. I will stipulate that people need people. I will stipulate that many wonderful people have helped me in life. I will stipulate that I am very, very lucky. However, I have met a lot of people who missed out on that hard work gene. For whatever reason, they haven't been as lucky.
Believe what you want. It is still a free country.
I can stop talking if you want. But Scott is right. I am in the 1%. Do you want to burn my house down and take my stuff? Do you care how I got to be 1%? Does it matter?
My opinions have no validity because I started with nothing, worked very hard and am successful?
Should I apologize for that?
That you are or are not within the arbitrarily selected category of "the 1%" or not is irrelevant, and so is how you got there. Even if you had come fully formed from the void, it wouldn't make any difference. Well, actually, that would make a pretty huge difference - but not to the topic at hand. If you did come fully formed from the void though, I want to hear about that - right now. Can I summon other things from the void? I'll keep it a secret... I promise.
I think they should hire you as a spokesperson, because I don't think that's what their intentions are at all. But this opportunity you speak of, would that be debt forgiveness? Going to need the government for that. They overpaid for an education and in the meantime someone moved their cheese? Time to figure out something else then, isn't it? No, wait, I have a better idea. I'm going to sit in a park and protest about it!
Ahh, the old "you only have to roll up your sleeves" talking point. Guess what? Most of these people already rolled up their sleeves, they worked hard only to lose their jobs when the economy went down the toilet. They worked hard to get themselves through college and get an education, only to graduate and find that the skills they have aren't wanted. What do you want them to do? Invest yet more time and money to learn skills that apparently still won't get them a job because companies aren't fucking hiring?
Sorry, but just rolling up your sleeves doesn't cut it. You need opportunities. It appears that you were fortunate enough to get opportunities. However, there aren't any opportunities at the moment, because companies ain't hiring!
Whaleshark, please. I will stipulate that people need people. I will stipulate that many wonderful people have helped me in life. I will stipulate that I am very, very lucky. However, I have met a lot of people who missed out on that hard work gene. For whatever reason, they haven't been as lucky.
I will grant you the hard work aspect. It's sorely lacking in many places.
However, a statement like "I started with nothing" actually contributes to the lack of work ethic. In fact, it can contribute to a sort of negative entitlement - "I never took help from anyone, so what's mine is mine and I don't have to do anything else for anyone."
The problem is that in failing to recognize and exalt the contributions of other people, you help perpetuate the myth that other people don't do anything for people. And that creates a disincentive for helping others, because now you've got this perception that everyone is only out for themselves at the expense of others. Downplaying the contributions of other people creates a mindset that lets people believe that they have to do everything themselves.
And then, people don't see the hard work that other people have put in to create the situation that they were born with. Thus, they're not exposed to the idea of working to create a situation, and think that it's not actually needed.
So I get riled up when I hear "I started with nothing," because it's a damned lie that perpetuates the problem.
How about we try talking about it honestly? You didn't start with nothing - you tapped the resources around you to get where you are today. A small shift in wording and perspective, but it says a different thing completely.
EDIT: I don't particularly adhere to much of the Bible, but "Honor thy father and mother" isn't just about respecting family - it's about respecting the circumstances that brought you to where you are. That's some old-school wisdom right there.
Comments
EDIT: Oi.
I do want to ask a question though. Who is greedier: the person who goes out and makes millions of dollars or the person who sits in the park and demands that you give it to him?
Stupid is as stupid does. If you live in the U.S. today, you have amazing freedoms, far greater than elsewhere. Opportunity abounds, especially if you have a good attitude and you are willing to work. Given this environment, if the best thing you can come up with is to occupy public places to try to force other people to solve your problems and your perception of the problems of others, you are stupid.
The cop thing was a lucky break for the OWS folks. Lots of good PR because no reasonable person (not even me) thinks that pepper spraying non-violent protestors is a good idea. If it were a movement against the police state, I might even protest too. But it's not. The pepper spray event was just a collision of stupidity on both sides but it will help the protesters.
If nothing bad happens, you can pull yourself up, and everything is great, but if something goes wrong, you have nowhere to go in America.
Moreover, the protesters aren't even in that camp! If you looked at the OWS folks and saw genuinely disenfranchised, suffering people it might be different. They are neither.
Have you ever traveled outside the U.S.? Have you ever seen real poverty?
In fact, high pre-crisis returns to banking had a much more mundane explanation. They reflected simply increased risk-taking across the sector. This was not an outward shift in the portfolio possibility set of finance. Instead, it was a traverse up the high-wire of risk and return.
So a lot of banks played roulette with hard working people's money, wrecked the economy and got millions in bonuses. There are around 4 or 5 job applicants per job opening meaning there is literally no job available for the majority of unemployed. Bank and Wall Street bonuses are already rivalling pre crisis levels.
Unless you are suggesting OWS should be burning shit down rather than peacefully protesting I don't have any idea what your point is.
I guess you think we should stop providing food stamps so the lazy people can starve to death? Or at least make people on food stamps feel ashamed about it.
the healthcare no matter what refers to going to an emergency room and not paying I guess? We could stop doing that and let people die too so they aren't so lazy? Shorter Thaed: If you aren't riddled with dysentery and have a distended belly what the hell are you complaining about?
So yeah, I've seen real poverty, and I've worked with people in terrible conditions, but I still support OWS. The thing is that we're supposed to be a country that is so far beyond that type of life, a country that's supposed to define "first world," and yet almost identical conditions exist in certain parts of Appalachia. The idea shouldn't be, "It could be worse, stop whining," but rather, "We know it could be so much better, so why isn't it?"
Individuals and groups of individuals create wealth. Wealth creation does not happen via government action. Just ask the people of Greece.
I can't change your minds about this or about OWS or probably anything for that matter. But I can tell you some truth. Life is as simple as knowing what you want. If you want something, develop and use your talents and achieve it. If you wait for the government to do it, you'll be waiting your life away.
My opinions have no validity because I started with nothing, worked very hard and am successful?
Should I apologize for that?
Unless you were birthed fully-formed from a void from beyond, you have relied on other people from day 1 to get you where you are now. There is no such thing as doing it yourself.
So pardon me if I don't buy into political autism.
Whaleshark, please. I will stipulate that people need people. I will stipulate that many wonderful people have helped me in life. I will stipulate that I am very, very lucky. However, I have met a lot of people who missed out on that hard work gene. For whatever reason, they haven't been as lucky.
Believe what you want. It is still a free country.
Sorry, but just rolling up your sleeves doesn't cut it. You need opportunities. It appears that you were fortunate enough to get opportunities. However, there aren't any opportunities at the moment, because companies ain't hiring!
However, a statement like "I started with nothing" actually contributes to the lack of work ethic. In fact, it can contribute to a sort of negative entitlement - "I never took help from anyone, so what's mine is mine and I don't have to do anything else for anyone."
The problem is that in failing to recognize and exalt the contributions of other people, you help perpetuate the myth that other people don't do anything for people. And that creates a disincentive for helping others, because now you've got this perception that everyone is only out for themselves at the expense of others. Downplaying the contributions of other people creates a mindset that lets people believe that they have to do everything themselves.
And then, people don't see the hard work that other people have put in to create the situation that they were born with. Thus, they're not exposed to the idea of working to create a situation, and think that it's not actually needed.
So I get riled up when I hear "I started with nothing," because it's a damned lie that perpetuates the problem.
How about we try talking about it honestly? You didn't start with nothing - you tapped the resources around you to get where you are today. A small shift in wording and perspective, but it says a different thing completely.
EDIT: I don't particularly adhere to much of the Bible, but "Honor thy father and mother" isn't just about respecting family - it's about respecting the circumstances that brought you to where you are. That's some old-school wisdom right there.