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Explain Homestuck

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  • edited March 2012
    Actually, sort of yes. That is the fake beginning, of a sort. That whole part, him screwing around, meeting his friends, doing stupid shit?

    That's basically setup. The only point of that entire section is to set up the basic conventions of Homestuck; Here is how the story is presented. Here are the abstractions we use. Here is how conversation will happen. Here's basically every running joke we'll do. Here's some of the proper nouns. Here is some nonsense that will come back later in a big way but you don't know that yet. Hey, look, we use flash sometimes! Let's check on John's friends. Quick bit of foreshadowing and...

    The story itself, the start of the plot, when stuff starts happening, is pretty much right here. That's when the game begins and shit gets real.

    The stuff John does is done in lots of detail and with lots of screwing around, because he is the protagonist. He sets up the conventions that will be used with the other characters, so that when it's their turn to play, they just go right ahead and do it and we don't need an explanation. He sets the pace for the first third of the story, basically.
    Post edited by open_sketchbook on
  • The story itself, the start of the plot, when stuff starts happening, is pretty much right here. That's when the game begins and shit gets real.
    OMG. For a second there it starts to make sense. There's a very amateurish and straightforward explanation of a generic fantasy world with a battle between good and evil. Stereotypical, but at least it makes sense.

    And then a whole bunch of pages about resisting the lure of cookies? I couldn't make it far enough to find out if he ever got the cookies.
  • edited March 2012
    Oh, so the problem is you are completely impatient? Welp, that explains it.
    Post edited by open_sketchbook on
  • edited March 2012
    Scott. You can't figure it out, and you find yourself a clever dude - that doesn't mean it's some bizarre puzzle that only makes sense to stupid people, it just means you can't figure it out. You've been told over and over again that you not being into it doesn't mean it's shit, it just means that you're not into it.

    I don't get it either, beyond it being a multi-media webcomic that's meant to be in the style of a zany old point-and-click adventure game, but you've got practically no control over it. I think the kid wants to start playing this game, presumably the game Sketchbook is talking about, and somehow the fate of the universe revolves around how well they do in the game. I had to catch about half of that from Know Your Meme, because I looked at it for about twenty minutes, and came to the conclusion that no matter how good the comic itself may or may not be, I just don't at all care for the creator's presentation style, I find it kind of annoying. It's not shit, it's just not for me - much like the ponies, I don't like it, but I can't hold that as a judgement of quality of the work.
    Oh, so the problem is you are completely impatient? Welp, that explains it.
    Initially, I just figured he was looking at the image and clicking through as fast as possible, because he didn't care for it that much. I don't think that's the case anymore, but even if it were, I couldn't blame him for it. Say what you will about the narrative, but the presentation style is like trying to have a serious conversation with a sack full of Meth addicts and a ward of alcoholics going through DTs.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • Oh, so the problem is you are completely impatient? Welp, that explains it.
    Let me ask you something. Do you have a job? What payoff could possibly be worth spending an hour reading page after page after page of nothing happening? Thousands upon thousands of pages would take days upon days upon days of time out of my short life. I've already looked at hundreds of pages from all parts of the comic. So far less than 10 have been comprehensible.

    There's a line here. Patience is one thing. Not giving any value to your time is something else.
  • edited March 2012
    The primary reason is that it makes me crazy is that what people say about it in no way matches what you see when you actually go to look at the thing. It's like there's a barn. Someone says, hey check out the awesome cow in the barn. No matter how much I search the barn there is only hay and chickens. I ask where is the cow? Everyone answers that the awesome cow is right there in the barn, can't you see it? I have looked everywhere in the barn. There is no cow. I almost saw the tip of the cow's tail once, but I can't be sure. I honestly can't believe the cow exists because I don't see it anywhere.

    The cow is the quality of Homestuck. All the things people say, character development, drama, plot. If those things do exist, then sure. Homestuck just isn't for me. But I can not believe those things exist because nobody can show them to me. There is no evidence of their existence. All I can see are poorly drawn incomprehensible MS paint and flash pics. I have to call it like I see it. Despite extensive research and even asking for help, nobody has been able to produce this evidence.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • edited March 2012
    You find out the reason for the bullshit with the cookies basically ten panels later; you find out who the guy imputting the stupid cookie-related commands are, and he goes on to be extremely important to the mythology of the story. But hey, if you want to spend YOUR valuable time accusing me of being too stupid to stop reading, go ahead. Great plan, Scott.

    Also, why it is a surprise to you that a person cannot just show you a good part of a serial work? Can you point me to a single passage in the Lord of the Rings to sell me on it? Can you sell me on it using a hundred unrelated passages? Fuck no, you'll just give me a whole bunch of bible-ass language and some shit about dwarves. There ain't nothing wrong with a work being the sum of it's parts, that only reads serially.
    Post edited by open_sketchbook on
  • You find out the reason for the bullshit with the cookies basically ten panels later; you find out who the guy imputting the stupid cookie-related commands are, and he goes on to be extremely important to the mythology of the story. But hey, if you want to spend YOUR valuable time accusing me of being too stupid to stop reading, go ahead. Great plan, Scott.
    Ok wow. Just think about what you just said.

    TEN pages of a guy inputting random cookie related commands is extremely important to the mythology.

    Read that sentence a few times there. Then share your drugs with me.
  • edited March 2012
    Ten panels, dude. It's not like reading ten pages of a novel, it's like reading one, maybe one and a half pages of comic book.

    To go back to my Lord of the Rings metaphor, it's like saying that all of LotR is shit because Tom Bombadil sings some songs about shit that doesn't make sense yet.
    Post edited by open_sketchbook on
  • You find out the reason for the bullshit with the cookies basically ten panels later; you find out who the guy imputting the stupid cookie-related commands are, and he goes on to be extremely important to the mythology of the story. But hey, if you want to spend YOUR valuable time accusing me of being too stupid to stop reading, go ahead. Great plan, Scott.
    TEN pages of a guy inputting random cookie related commands is extremely important to the mythology.
    You should read an Icelandic saga some time. I know a sizable chunk of the saga of Egil Skallagrimsson. You want to know where the saga starts? 60 years before he's born. There are 30 chapters of stuff that is not Egil. It's all background and history and all that jazz. Intense descriptions of settling farmland and creating districts in Iceland.

    Sometimes, it takes a while to set up a story. 10 panels ain't nothing.
  • That would be true if it was 5000 pages of nothing but Tom Bombadil.
  • edited March 2012
    I must admit, I'm finding that looking at the stuff behind the curtain is a hell of a lot more interesting than the comic. The reason he's successful, I suspect, is far more to do with the fact he engages the community personally, is friendly and personable with them, plesant, and allows them to feel some measure of control over the product, without losing control of it.
    The primary reason is that it makes me crazy is that what people say about it in no way matches what you see when you actually go to look at the thing. It's like there's a barn. Someone says, hey check out the awesome cow in the barn. No matter how much I search the barn there is only hay and chickens. I ask where is the cow? Everyone answers that the awesome cow is right there in the barn, can't you see it? I have looked everywhere in the barn. There is no cow. I almost saw the tip of the cow's tail once, but I can't be sure. I honestly can't believe the cow exists because I don't see it anywhere.
    If everyone is telling you where the cow is, what the cow looks like, how to find the cow, in which spot to start looking for the cow, what the cow eats, how it sounds, and how it takes it's tea, and you still can't find the cow, I'd be starting to think the problem does not lie with the cow and if it exists or not.

    The way you're making out, you didn't look everywhere in the barn, you saw the door wasn't all the way open, so you looked a little bit through the crack between them without taking off your sunglasses to look into the dark barn, before immediately walking away declaring no cow existed.

    This is starting to turn into a repeat of the time you called Arkham Asylum a "Shitty bayonetta clone" or words very much to that effect. I genuinely thought you'd learned a lesson from that.
    The cow is the quality of Homestuck. All the things people say, character development, drama, plot. If those things do exist, then sure. Homestuck just isn't for me. But I can not believe those things exist because nobody can show them to me. There is no evidence of their existence. All I can see are poorly drawn incomprehensible MS paint and flash pics. I have to call it like I see it. Despite extensive research and even asking for help, nobody has been able to produce this evidence.
    Just like that extensive research on Arkham Asylum, I'll bet. Don't bullshit me Scott, I'd wager your extensive research amounted to trying to read it once or twice, giving up, and maybe skimming the wiki once. For example, you give a good figure on the number of pages, but you skimmed too quick - that's the number of pages, total, across all the four series that the creator has done under the MSpaint adventures banner. Score one for Extensive Research, I guess.

    Don't even get me started on your fine history of calling them "like you see them". While I don't like this comic much either, to continue the same theme, along with your history of calling as you see it, you've also got a very fine history of walking about with a labrador and a long white cane. It's not nighttime just because you chose to close your eyes, nor does being a blind man mean the world is entirely devoid of light and colour.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • Pete and Churba. All I ask you is this. Have you tried to read it? Can you understand it?
  • edited March 2012
    Besides, to me, who knows the story, those ten cookie panels are hilarious. You've got WV dicking around with the computer, somehow convinced he'll get cookies out of it if he can get John to retrieve them. You've got John, sick to death of baked goods and fearful of the Batterwitch that is Betty Crocker. You have the later twist reveal of Betty Crocker's true nature and the irony of Jane-as-Nanasprite serving her dark purposes. You have the lingering bemused disbelief that you are reading a comic in which Betty Crocker can be said to have dark purposes. And finally, poor Rose trying to get John to snap out of it and pay attention.

    There are so many layers. ALL THE LAYERS. You will never know these fabulous layers.
    Post edited by open_sketchbook on
  • Pete and Churba. All I ask you is this. Have you tried to read it? Can you understand it?
    Nope, not really. I haven't been interested enough to care to read it.

  • Pete and Churba. All I ask you is this. Have you tried to read it? Can you understand it?
    Nope, not really. I haven't been interested enough to care to read it.

    Try, for me. For science.
    There are so many layers. ALL THE LAYERS. You will never know these fabulous layers.
    Just wanna say, this is the same stuff that superhero comic fanpeople say about their incomprehensible comics. If you only knew 50 years of DC/Marvel universe history this comic would be the best! But since you are a normal person it makes no sense whatsoever.
  • edited March 2012
    Pete and Churba. All I ask you is this. Have you tried to read it? Can you understand it?
    Yes and no. I've read quite a bit of it, but not the whole thing - the presentation style puts me off more than anything else, but that's fair enough, I can see that it would appeal to some people. As for understanding it, I was certainly very confused at first, but as I skipped though it, I can see things starting to make sense, and I'm able to connect the dots to a limited degree, as I do tend to skip back and fourth, and miss sections of it - not everything makes sense, but I figure it likely would if I'd read the whole thing, which I admittedly have not, since as I mentioned, the presentation of it puts me right off, and I really don't want to have to put up with that, just to get to the rest of it.

    In short, I could stand to read it if it were in a different format or style, maybe, and while I don't entirely understand it, nor am I as familiar with it as sketchbook, I can see what he's getting at, and I can see why he enjoys it.

    To keep on with the barn analogy, I can see the silhouette of the cow, and I can hear it mooing, I can smell it, and I know it's there, I just don't particularly care to pay the admission price to go in and pet the cow, because it's a guided tour and the farmer is shitting me off.
    Just wanna say, this is the same stuff that superhero comic fanpeople say about their incomprehensible comics. If you only knew 50 years of DC/Marvel universe history this comic would be the best! But since you are a normal person it makes no sense whatsoever.
    I have never heard anyone who was actually into superhero comics say that, I've only heard the accusations of it from people who don't like superhero comics. And Let's face it, I'd a dude who is into comics, and I've spent a hell of a lot of time around people who are really, really into comics. To (badly) paraphrase Rym, so you say people say that. Are you sure it wasn't...Nobody?

    Post edited by Churba on
  • Considering Andrew Hussie's notorious reputation for trolling his fanbase, that's the best description of Homestuck yet.
  • Scott I can easily see and understand how you don't like the beginning of Homestuck. In my understanding in the early days the creator still used the suggestion box to take commands from witch resulted in a huge amount of wasted time as characters did random things as text adventure heroes tend to do. Problem was that it was A. a huge waste of time, B. Not actually funny, C. Made characters act in a somewhat stupid and random manner. Luckily he moved away from that habit.

    The analogy for 50 years of superhero history technically makes scene, but in this case at least you have all the stuff presented to you in a linear manner.

    But I don't try to sell Scott or anyone to Homestuck. Reading it takes time that not all people have and surely not everyone will like it. I decided to take the dive into it and I've been enjoying it quite a lot, but I just might like stupid things.
  • Meh. I think the cosplay fandom is pretty cute and tried Homestuck. While this thread helped me get it a bit more, I rather use my time on other pursuits. While it's not my cup of tea I do recognize that it is a successful experimental interactive webcomic and may be the catalyst for some better from someone else.
  • Pete, read it.

    I read well over a thousand "pages" in, and then skipped to later and read several hundred more. Read it and tell us what you think?

    I don't understand Scott's abject hatred of Homestuck. Be sure to to conflate his opinion with mine. ;^)
  • I don't hate it. I don't want it to die and be removed from the earth. I have no malice towards it and its creator. I just have a very low opinion of it. I am also extremely frustrated that despite great effort it is still incomprehensible. I am also frustrated by the fact that what fans say about it bears absolutely no resemblance to the actual thing.
  • The people who legitimately like it are short attention span tweaked out punk kids
    This made me lol. I'm way behind on Homestuck because I cannot bother myself to spend the attention needed to keep up with it. There's just too many words.
    Now, I am completely aware that this appears to be the first sign of me being old.
    Blaming age when you're still stupidly young for being stubborn and rusting into your ways is pathetic. I've known people twice your age more receptive to things than you at times, Apreche.
    Homestuck may be the first thing that my generation doesn't understand
    With the exception that 'your' generation is just as likely to understand the comic for what it is.
    We'll just ramble a stream of consciousness
    You already do this. Don't dare to say you do not because that's all you ever do.
    there isn't even character introduction!
    Two lines before this you said you read the beginning of his character introduction. Seriously, what is wrong with you Apreche? You're introduced to a character, some of his interests and what is currently going on in his life and a few pages into the introduction (out of a few hundred) you just wander off claiming there's no introduction? Good job, well played, you do not go past Start and do not receive $200. There's a reason why my first post in this thread was so long.
    There's a line here. Patience is one thing. Not giving any value to your time is something else.
    It used to take more time to keep up with Geeknights than it takes to keep up with Homestuck. Both have been going on for years now with regular or semi-regular updates, the latter however isn't episodic and requires one to first have to consume all the content that has build up over the years. Once caught up it's easy to keep up, especially for someone like you who can spend lots of time on their own forum during work hours.
    The primary reason is that it makes me crazy is that what people say about it in no way matches what you see when you actually go to look at the thing.
    What people say about the comic is spread out over many, many pages. So no, just looking at it won't match with what's being told because you're only looking at a very, very small portion of what it being talked about.

    Your cow nonsense, I feel, is a bad analogy. Let me try. Someone tells you there's wood in the forest. You go there, look around, look inside the forest, look around the forest, climb some high trees but still don't see any wood. Completely missing the fact that the entire forest is made out of wood and you missed it because you didn't look nor bothered to spend the time to get the wood. Third party, this a better analogy?

    Asking someone to send you to a page, or collection of pages, with for example character development is a complete waste of time because you do not have the context, thus you cannot see the development because there is nothing from your point of view that can be developed.
    I'm also partially convinced Homestuck is a huge conspiracy.
    OH SHIT! EVERYONE, QUICKLY FOLLOW THE SIGNS!
    image
  • Your cow nonsense, I feel, is a bad analogy. Let me try. Someone tells you there's wood in the forest. You go there, look around, look inside the forest, look around the forest, climb some high trees but still don't see any wood. Completely missing the fact that the entire forest is made out of wood and you missed it because you didn't look nor bothered to spend the time to get the wood. Third party, this a better analogy?
    I maintain the best analogy is that it's like trying to sell yourself on a series of books by reading individual paragraphs at random.
  • Your cow nonsense, I feel, is a bad analogy. Let me try. Someone tells you there's wood in the forest. You go there, look around, look inside the forest, look around the forest, climb some high trees but still don't see any wood. Completely missing the fact that the entire forest is made out of wood and you missed it because you didn't look nor bothered to spend the time to get the wood. Third party, this a better analogy?
    I maintain the best analogy is that it's like trying to sell yourself on a series of books by reading individual paragraphs at random.
    If you read the first two chapters of a book and none of it made any sense, why would you keep reading? The natural thing to do is put it away forever, or start skimming around to see if there's anything in there that makes sense at all.
  • I have the feeling, that some people who don´t like homestuck, don´t like it, because they didn´t read it from the beginning. This webcomic isn´t a one-shot-thing, like many popular webcomics, and its not really a story you can jump in in the middle, and figure out, what happened before. And its intimidating because all the fans are already on page 6.000 and you want to be able to talk about it. So you skip pages, or those long dialog-sequences which would explain those "proper nouns".
    While most people recommend skipping ahead, to act 2 or act 4, because it gets much better later on, you still would have to know what happened in those earlier acts, in order to get it.
    But try to read it, without any pressure to be in-the-know, or trying to read 6.000 pages in a few days, try to read it, just to enjoy it. I read it again, after I rushed true it, the first time, and am able to appreciate it more now. I would even say its among the 10 or so best webcomics out there (I would say it partially, because I wan´t to see Scott explode. XD)

    But in order to skip to act 2, here the SHORT synopsis of act 1:

    John, Rose, Jade and Dave are the main characters. They are the people who get a special-alpha-test-version of a new computer game called "Homestuck".
    They put the CD in, and realize that everyone, can see another player on his monitor. Rose can see John, John can see Jade, and so on (don´t remember how it was exactly configured) and they can each use the mouse to move around objects in that other players house, like in Sims - but for real. But everyone can only manipulate one other player this way.
    Then they find out, that the first objective of the game is to "enter". In order to do so, each of them has to complete a unique task, before a meteor hits their house. Johns task is just to eat an apple, and he is teleported with his house to another dimension. That´s besically all you need to know I guess. Feel free to add anything or correct me.

    http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=002146

    Also: The captalogue-system is just like collecting items in most video-games. Instead of a bag, they just have a menu-screen.
    And everyone has a "dreamself" which wakes up, when their person is asleep, and sleeps when they wake up, and lives in yet another dimension. But this gets explained later on...
  • edited March 2012
    I have the feeling, that some people who don´t like homestuck, don´t like it, because they didn´t read it from the beginning.
    This is an honest and completely unrelated question. Why do you insist on using the grave accent character (`) instead of the apostrophe character (')? It looks silly and I see people do this more frequently than I should (i.e., more than never).
    Post edited by trogdor9 on
  • I am finding this conversation amusing because I just scheduled a panel about Homestuck in my panel schedule for Zenkaikon and I had no idea what that comic was about but I had a hole to fill and really no webcomic content.
  • Your cow nonsense, I feel, is a bad analogy. Let me try. Someone tells you there's wood in the forest. You go there, look around, look inside the forest, look around the forest, climb some high trees but still don't see any wood. Completely missing the fact that the entire forest is made out of wood and you missed it because you didn't look nor bothered to spend the time to get the wood. Third party, this a better analogy?
    I maintain the best analogy is that it's like trying to sell yourself on a series of books by reading individual paragraphs at random.
    If you read the first two chapters of a book and none of it made any sense, why would you keep reading? The natural thing to do is put it away forever, or start skimming around to see if there's anything in there that makes sense at all.
    I have absolutely no problem with you not liking it, Scott. The only problem I have is that you are convinced the people who do like it are somehow deficient, and you have set an impossible standard to prove otherwise. There are not many continuous works where you can just jump to a random portion to see if it's good, especially works that build up their own mythology and universe.

    There are moments in Homestuck that are earth-shattering, growing more frequent as the story goes on; Eridan's betrayal, Gamzee stalking the trolls through the labs, Bro's death, the revelation of Jack Noir's origin, Vriska's death, and pretty much the entirety of [s]Cascade are the standout examples. But it's all within a context that takes a while to build. If you have zero investment in it, you'll get zero payoff and you'll have zero comprehension.
  • edited March 2012
    Pete, read it.

    I read well over a thousand "pages" in, and then skipped to later and read several hundred more. Read it and tell us what you think?

    I don't understand Scott's abject hatred of Homestuck. Be sure to to conflate his opinion with mine. ;^)
    I started it last night. The first thought I had was "Is this guy supposed to have OCD?" Because the method for interacting with the world would be an interesting way to represent someone with OCD - having to use things in the order they appear in your inventory would mean that you have to pick things up in a specific order every single day.

    EDIT: I got about 20 pages in before I went to bed, by the way. It was a late night and I was tired. But so far, it seems alright. I don't understand the fanboy response, and I don't understand the pushback against it either.

    Post edited by TheWhaleShark on
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