It's an abstraction of the game-inspired world he lives in. The trick with early Homestuck is to just roll with it; it doesn't make a lot of sense now, but the payoff is coming, so just enjoy the shenanigans.
Also, you can't really think of it in terms of "pages". What an individual page of the website represents ranges from a single reaction panel to a GIF loop, to a good page worth of text or dialog, to a short film, to a little playable walkaround flash section.
EDIT: I got about 20 pages in before I went to bed, by the way. It was a late night and I was tired. But so far, it seems alright. I don't understand the fanboy response, and I don't understand the pushback against it either.
My pushback is only that what fans say doesn't match what I actually read. ;^)
It's an abstraction of the game-inspired world he lives in. The trick with early Homestuck is to just roll with it; it doesn't make a lot of sense now, but the payoff is coming, so just enjoy the shenanigans.
Also, you can't really think of it in terms of "pages". What an individual page of the website represents ranges from a single reaction panel to a GIF loop, to a good page worth of text or dialog, to a short film, to a little playable walkaround flash section.
Damn. I was kind of hoping it was some cleverly added character depth. So it's just a reinforcement of the world?
Kinda, though they often represent aspects of the character they are associated with, and over time they shed reliance on them as a symbol of their rejection and transcendence of the predestined, structured nature of their lives. And stuff. Basically it goes away once the story picks up.
The primary purpose of the sylladex is to get readers used to the idea of and depth of the abstractions used, and so that people don't question characters having four suits, a hammer the size of a sofa, and a car in their personal inventory.
If you read the first two chapters of a book and none of it made any sense, why would you keep reading? The natural thing to do is put it away forever, or start skimming around to see if there's anything in there that makes sense at all.
The problem with this statement is that you didn't read the first two chapters of a book. What you did was more like reading two sentences at random on the first page, then flipped way forward, read another two sentences and declared the story to be tripe only fit to be kindling to a Twilight burning. You've absolutely no clue of the freaking length of the story, it's like taking the Lord of the Rings trilogy, quadrupling each book's sentences per page and number of pages, and then writing it to be a vigintology! It's long, it's wordy, it's very spread out. And disliking an art style doesn't make it shit. That would be like saying xkcd's stick figure style is shit.
Take a page from Rym's book and listen to the comments that say it's not for everyone (like, gasp, everything that involves personal tastes) and chillax. You don't understand why some people are in love with Homestuck, I don't understand why people are utterly batshit crazy insane over My Little Pony. Have some decency maybe?
Your cow nonsense, I feel, is a bad analogy. Let me try. Someone tells you there's wood in the forest. You go there, look around, look inside the forest, look around the forest, climb some high trees but still don't see any wood. Completely missing the fact that the entire forest is made out of wood and you missed it because you didn't look nor bothered to spend the time to get the wood. Third party, this a better analogy?
I maintain the best analogy is that it's like trying to sell yourself on a series of books by reading individual paragraphs at random.
If you read the first two chapters of a book and none of it made any sense, why would you keep reading? The natural thing to do is put it away forever, or start skimming around to see if there's anything in there that makes sense at all.
Your cow nonsense, I feel, is a bad analogy. Let me try. Someone tells you there's wood in the forest. You go there, look around, look inside the forest, look around the forest, climb some high trees but still don't see any wood. Completely missing the fact that the entire forest is made out of wood and you missed it because you didn't look nor bothered to spend the time to get the wood. Third party, this a better analogy?
I maintain the best analogy is that it's like trying to sell yourself on a series of books by reading individual paragraphs at random.
If you read the first two chapters of a book and none of it made any sense, why would you keep reading? The natural thing to do is put it away forever, or start skimming around to see if there's anything in there that makes sense at all.
Have you ever read Catch 22?
I own a copy of, and have read, the entire book. It makes sense the entire time.
I own a copy of, and have read, the entire book. It makes sense the entire time.
It's one of my favorite novels and I've read it twice, but some parts of the novel are definitely not easily accessible to those without the patience to discover the meaning behind them. The entire section where Milo is making supply runs would confuse anyone who doesn't know a bit about capitalism, and the part with Luciana will seem like a bit of a non-sequitur without a lot of textual analysis.
It definitely takes effort to actually keep track of whats going on in HS, even when keeping up with the updates daily. Though if you don't find the storytelling humorous or interesting it's probably not worth it. The plot develops rapidly later on but the sense of humor stays pretty consistent.
Does anyone actually find these "yelling style" YouTube videos funny? People make a lot of them for ponies, and I just find them annoying and painful on the ears. I can see how making one could be fun, but not watching/listening to one.
Word of advice, make sure to watch that in proper 720p HD. Otherwise you might miss something.
Does anyone actually find these "yelling style" YouTube videos funny? People make a lot of them for ponies, and I just find them annoying and painful on the ears. I can see how making one could be fun, but not watching/listening to one.
You really are having a hard time here, don't you? Did you close your eyes when you were watching? Did you forget to set it to 720p and turn on fullscreen mode? You might want to find some help if you cannot grasp the joke here.
I just had to see what was causing all this consternation on Scott's part, so I took half an hour and started reading Homestuck. I stopped just after the main character and his friend start messing around with their new game.
My opinion? It's hilarious. Let me explain:
If you're familiar at all with MS Paint Adventures, you know what kind of story you're getting into. It's set up in the style of an old text adventure or point and click game. It's also collaborative - readers decide what the main character will do next. It's basically "Action Castle" made into a webcomic.
The fun of Homestuck, then, isn't that there's some linear story, like you'd enjoy in a book or movie. Since the audience decides the actions that the main character takes, it's going to be random and silly. It's like playing a game where you don't have the manual - you find out how it works by experimenting. When you read Homestuck, you are watching the readers experiment with the rules of the setting/game that the creator has established. There are cute "aha!" moments when you learn a new rule and see it put into practice to do something clever (the fight scene with the father, for instance), and also moments of hilarity when a reader's suggestion is played out, but with results that you never expected. (The smoke pellets, the PDA shooting out the window, the cake splattering on the poster.) There's also the fun of seeing new elements introduced (like the interface that the main character's new computer game uses) and anticipating the complexities and craziness that will come from that.
Personally, I think this is really cool. Homestuck blurs the line between story and game, both in its subject matter and the way it is created. I can understand why some people wouldn't like it - it feels very tied to 4chan/MSPaintAdventures subculture, with the kind of humor and storytelling technique that entails - and to understand it you have to go into it with the "learn by experimenting" mindset, which is different than the way you'd approach a book or more traditional webcomic. In the end, it comes down to taste and the way one likes to consume media. As for me, I'll probably keep reading, both to see if my initial impressions are correct, and to watch the story spiral into craziness.
Also, I don't agree with Scott's opinion of the art. Yes, it's cartoony, and yes, a sizeable part is made in MSPaint. However, looking at Homestuck, you can tell that the creator knows how to draw. There's competent use of perspective in nearly every page, and the compositions are balanced and interesting. Maybe you don't like the style, but there is definitely skill supporting it.
It's also collaborative - readers decide what the main character will do next.
SPOILER: That's not what he's doing with Homestuck because it was getting hard and unwieldly to do for Problem Sleuth. Instead the reader participation is limited to some side stuff and inspiration. The overall story's planned to a degree. Just so you know that.
yes, a sizeable part is made in MSPaint.
Nope. Not true either. Most of, if not all of, Problem Sleuth wasn't even drawn in MSPaint.
Yeah, the author said as much in the little blurb describing the comic. I can see why he jettisoned that approach later on - there's only so many times you want to see your readers suggesting "shit on something!" I'm not sure at what point Homestuck stopped relying on reader input, but the "introduction" felt as if at least some was involved. In any case, reading the beginning does seem to give you a handle on how the whole thing works.
Definitely interested to see where it goes as the author takes more control of the plot.
Definitely interested to see where it goes as the author takes more control of the plot.
I'd say it gets that much better. Wear pie as a hat is not hilarious even if it's done dozen times and just makes character look random. But I quiess it's part of how things go in Homestuck, when a thing in first time introduced, be in something in the game the characters are playing or in the meta-level game, it's played around with, but later skipped or trivialized. Like the inventory system stuff, from early on it's a source or trouble for the characters, but later pretty much everyone can take anything they want from their inventory and how it works is just a bit of color for the character.
Homestuck is for people who were not internet-savvy enough to know about MS Pain Adventures over five years ago.
Bro! Reading Problem Sleuth when it was still unfinished was awesome.
I'm not sure at what point Homestuck stopped relying on reader input
From the start as far as I am aware. The end of Problem Sleuth was the similar, where he went and picked suggestions that most suited the thing he wanted to do and where he wanted to take the story. It's still crazy wacky silly hijinks though, so not much changes there.
From the start as far as I am aware. The end of Problem Sleuth was the similar, where he went and picked suggestions that most suited the thing he wanted to do and where he wanted to take the story. It's still crazy wacky silly hijinks though, so not much changes there.
Actually, this makes it even more hilarious. If the "shit on stuff" and "add stuff to disguise" commands didn't come from readers/players, then the author put them in himself, likely to lampoon previous text adventure games. Absurdist humor taken to a meta level, nice.
Of all the people I've asked, you've made the most understandable summary of what Homestuck is about, Jess. Possibly even explaining why it's so popular. You've convinced me to take a look.
I read close to 2 chapters before dropping it. Although I stopped reading, I do think I kind of get it. The combo of comics, flash, and occasional minigames is something new, experimental, and different. The opening premise, where the characters are playing a game that they themselves are inside of is clever. From the plot summaries people are posting it seems like that sort of inventiveness continues with time loops, different intelligent species, and alternate realities and such. The story also sets up lots of puzzles and secrets that make you want to keep reading. The text... really reminds me of Tycho's older posts on Penny Arcade. The guy loves language, in particular archaic words, and I appreciate that. Sometimes he just goes too far with it, producing something irritating and impenetrable.
I dropped it - keep in mind I drop 90% of the fiction I try - because I got tired of the art, the excess verbiage, the thin characters, and most of all the ironic, hipster-y sense of humor. It was work to keep everything straight and I couldn't imagine reading thousands more pages for an increasingly confused and diluted story. It wasn't resonating with me. I got the sense the project had a lot of smart ideas but didn't really have anything interesting to say about life.
I agree with Churba about this, and I like open_sketchbook's Pony metaphor. Personally, I don't really care about MLP, though I recognize that it isn't bad in-and-of itself. I've seen a few episodes, and enjoyed them, much as I've read a little bit of Homestuck, but didn't continue. Both are relatively niche products.
That being said, I really liked Problem Sleuth. It got me to start using the word pulchritude, which I contend has had a measurable, positive impact on my life.
...Most of all the ironic, hipster-y sense of humor.
What the fuck does this even mean? I defy you define this in any remotely meaningful way.
Homestuck's primary mode of humor is dry irony. It constantly jokes about bad taste and (imaginary) terrible, trashy old pop culture. It does that in a slightly whimsical but ultimately condescending way. It thinks what it's doing is pretty clever. It's almost entirely deconstructive and doesn't really put itself out there and stand for something.
This isn't necessarily *wrong*, by the way, it's just not something I'm getting a lot out of at the moment.
I agree with Churba about this, and I like open_sketchbook's Pony metaphor. Personally, I don't really care about MLP, though I recognize that it isn't bad in-and-of itself. I've seen a few episodes, and enjoyed them, much as I've read a little bit of Homestuck, but didn't continue. Both are relatively niche products.
That being said, I really liked Problem Sleuth. It got me to start using the word pulchritude, which I contend has had a measurable, positive impact on my life.
I'm going to have to add this farmer right under Farmer John. FUCK Farmer John.
Comments
Also, you can't really think of it in terms of "pages". What an individual page of the website represents ranges from a single reaction panel to a GIF loop, to a good page worth of text or dialog, to a short film, to a little playable walkaround flash section.
The primary purpose of the sylladex is to get readers used to the idea of and depth of the abstractions used, and so that people don't question characters having four suits, a hammer the size of a sofa, and a car in their personal inventory.
Take a page from Rym's book and listen to the comments that say it's not for everyone (like, gasp, everything that involves personal tastes) and chillax. You don't understand why some people are in love with Homestuck, I don't understand why people are utterly batshit crazy insane over My Little Pony. Have some decency maybe?
EDIT: I forgot, if you don't care about Homestuck, whatever. Suits you fine. Isntead go reed osmething of actuel vallue..
Some works take effort.
Better than Homestuck.
My opinion? It's hilarious. Let me explain:
If you're familiar at all with MS Paint Adventures, you know what kind of story you're getting into. It's set up in the style of an old text adventure or point and click game. It's also collaborative - readers decide what the main character will do next. It's basically "Action Castle" made into a webcomic.
The fun of Homestuck, then, isn't that there's some linear story, like you'd enjoy in a book or movie. Since the audience decides the actions that the main character takes, it's going to be random and silly. It's like playing a game where you don't have the manual - you find out how it works by experimenting. When you read Homestuck, you are watching the readers experiment with the rules of the setting/game that the creator has established. There are cute "aha!" moments when you learn a new rule and see it put into practice to do something clever (the fight scene with the father, for instance), and also moments of hilarity when a reader's suggestion is played out, but with results that you never expected. (The smoke pellets, the PDA shooting out the window, the cake splattering on the poster.) There's also the fun of seeing new elements introduced (like the interface that the main character's new computer game uses) and anticipating the complexities and craziness that will come from that.
Personally, I think this is really cool. Homestuck blurs the line between story and game, both in its subject matter and the way it is created. I can understand why some people wouldn't like it - it feels very tied to 4chan/MSPaintAdventures subculture, with the kind of humor and storytelling technique that entails - and to understand it you have to go into it with the "learn by experimenting" mindset, which is different than the way you'd approach a book or more traditional webcomic. In the end, it comes down to taste and the way one likes to consume media. As for me, I'll probably keep reading, both to see if my initial impressions are correct, and to watch the story spiral into craziness.
Also, I don't agree with Scott's opinion of the art. Yes, it's cartoony, and yes, a sizeable part is made in MSPaint. However, looking at Homestuck, you can tell that the creator knows how to draw. There's competent use of perspective in nearly every page, and the compositions are balanced and interesting. Maybe you don't like the style, but there is definitely skill supporting it.
Yeah, the author said as much in the little blurb describing the comic. I can see why he jettisoned that approach later on - there's only so many times you want to see your readers suggesting "shit on something!" I'm not sure at what point Homestuck stopped relying on reader input, but the "introduction" felt as if at least some was involved. In any case, reading the beginning does seem to give you a handle on how the whole thing works.
Definitely interested to see where it goes as the author takes more control of the plot.
I dropped it - keep in mind I drop 90% of the fiction I try - because I got tired of the art, the excess verbiage, the thin characters, and most of all the ironic, hipster-y sense of humor. It was work to keep everything straight and I couldn't imagine reading thousands more pages for an increasingly confused and diluted story. It wasn't resonating with me. I got the sense the project had a lot of smart ideas but didn't really have anything interesting to say about life.
That being said, I really liked Problem Sleuth. It got me to start using the word pulchritude, which I contend has had a measurable, positive impact on my life.
This isn't necessarily *wrong*, by the way, it's just not something I'm getting a lot out of at the moment.