One thing that keeps me from getting into Homestuck from the discussion within this forum, is that the fandom of the comic praises itself from the fact that it's telling a story in a completely new, original way. It's a very unusual, bizarre, and all-over-the-place form of storytelling. But it feels like, people want to defend the story simply through the medium that it's told, rather than the merits of the story itself. Because it's so original and different, that it's beyond judgement.
Personally, I'm not sure if I would enjoy the story, because of the strange storytelling, the theme of trolling and the ironic sense of humor. They don't appeal to me at all, but what I would ask to the general fans of the series, is this. If the story were to be told in a conventional, simple webcomic without the gimmicks or specific design, could the story hold up on it's own?
They don't appeal to me at all, but what I would ask to the general fans of the series, is this. If the story were to be told in a conventional, simple webcomic without the gimmicks or specific design, could the story hold up on it's own?
Probably. The flashes and gamey bits are nice change of pace for the how the comic normally presents itself, but I believe that the real meat of what I enjoy in Homestuck is in the character interactions and those are presented in the most shitty way possible, in long long chat logs.
I actually can't think of a way to present this story that would make sense without the gimmicks. The format is incorporated into the setting and plot itself. The exiles hijack the text commands. When Doc Scratch has his little section of the story, he isn't a character doing stuff; he takes over the website and changes the format to tell you, the reader, what he wants to tell you, directly. There are points where the story loops back on itself with links, or diverge into two sets of comics and reintegrate. The video updates often present events that simply could not be shown effectively in panels. Even the single-panel format comes back when Jade summons, and escapes through, the forth wall.
I honestly don't think you could tell Homestuck's story in big Order of the Stick style pages and have it retain the same effectiveness. It'd probably be even more confusing. If you did it in three panel comics, the average reader would probably just start bleeding from the eyes.
The medium and format is as much a part of the story as anything else. It's like "The Monster at the End of the Book". If you adapted it into a different format, it would cease to be the same story. I guess it could be done in theory, but the results would be nonsensical.
I believe that the real meat of what I enjoy in Homestuck is in the character interactions and those are presented in the most shitty way possible, in long long chat logs.
I think that is definitely one of the key problems here. Whenever there was a long chat log, it was just so incredibly painful to read that I couldn't keep it up for any extended period of time. It literally caused me physical pain in the eyeball and brain region when I tried to force myself to read those things. Are you guys not experiencing the same pain? If you do, why do you enjoy/tolerate it?
I did the very first first time I read Homestuck, so I started skipping them and got very lost. I got back into Homestuck because I stumbled onto some funny voice-acted Youtube videos that inspired me to give it another go. Having the character voices in my head made the logs go from irritating to interesting, and they quickly became my favourite part. Especially any bit with Dave or Karkat.
Now, I read them to myself outloud in silly voices and generally have a great time with them. Especially whenever we get Jack Noir perspective and we get those awesome second-person conversations.
Hard question. But for why I'd have to say, because without it there wouldn't be most of the character interactions, it would be just a bunch of kinds running around in some fucked up game world doing some random shit. Without the chatlogs there wouldn't be character interactions and there wouldn't be much of the characters ether.
I found the chatlogs desperately tedious to read. Difficult to parse poorly written confusing blobs of text are not often pleasant, and they occur with such frequency that they cannot be ignored.
I consider them a major flaw as they are presented.
Hard question. But for why I'd have to say, because without it there wouldn't be most of the character interactions, it would be just a bunch of kinds running around in some fucked up game world doing some random shit. Without the chatlogs there wouldn't be character interactions and there wouldn't be much of the characters ether.
That's not really what I'm asking. I'm asking whether or not you feel the pain. And if you feel the pain, how can the reward possible be large enough for it to be worth it when there are effectively infinite other painless entertainment options?
That's not really what I'm asking. I'm asking whether or not you feel the pain. And if you feel the pain, how can the reward possible be large enough for it to be worth it when there are effectively infinite other painless entertainment options?
No, I don't feel the pain. Sometimes the logs get tedious and long and rambly, but if they ever start going towards painful I take a break and come back later.
I find it interesting that Scott advocates sitting through dozens of hours of frustrating, pointless CS where you just get killed over and over before you get good, but can't understand why somebody would read some long chat logs in a work they enjoy.
Wow, that is some badassery right there. You openly admit you suffered through something you like, and you came back for more! Putting your own feet to the coals, and you LIKE it. Dayum.
I think you'll understand that when something that is supposed to be entertaining inflicts actual physical suffering upon the audience that I rank it extremely low.
I find it interesting that Scott advocates sitting through dozens of hours of frustrating, pointless CS where you just get killed over and over before you get good, but can't understand why somebody would read some long chat logs in a work they enjoy.
Losing in CS is not suffering. Even though you are not winning, you are learning and growing. Reading those chat logs I'm pretty sure has been scientifically proven to kill brain cells, not teach you anything.
The chat logs make the characters who they are, and give context to those videos and dramatic moments. You know that video you didn't understand? I understand it completely. It's fantastic and hilarious and awe-inspiring, because I have context. Because I put the time in.
This here is what we call difference in opinions. For Scott reading Homestucks chatlog dialog causes physical pain, but it doesn't mean it causes it to everyone. In a same way while Scott might think that being dead and watching other people play in CS is a learning experiment it doesn't mean that for someone else it can be painfully boring.
The chat logs make the characters who they are, and give context to those videos and dramatic moments. You know that video you didn't understand? I understand it completely. It's fantastic and hilarious and awe-inspiring, because I have context. Because I put the time in.
I have a question for you, and honest one. Just how well read and well cultured are you? As in, how many truly great books have you read? How many truly great films have you seen? How many of the all time great comics have you read? I'm just wondering what your frame of reference is for saying Homestuck is fantastic, hilarious, and awe-inspiring. It would make sense to me if you thought it was great because you don't have much experience with things that are actually great.
If you've never ridden the 300' roller coaster it makes sense that you think the kiddie coaster is the best ever.
This here is what we call difference in opinions. For Scott reading Homestucks chatlog dialog causes physical pain, but it doesn't mean it causes it to everyone. In a same way while Scott might think that being dead and watching other people play in CS is a learning experiment it doesn't mean that for someone else it can be painfully boring.
But you just said it caused you pain! Now you change your mind?
This here is what we call difference in opinions. For Scott reading Homestucks chatlog dialog causes physical pain, but it doesn't mean it causes it to everyone. In a same way while Scott might think that being dead and watching other people play in CS is a learning experiment it doesn't mean that for someone else it can be painfully boring.
But you just said it caused you pain! Now you change your mind?
No, he didn't say it caused him pain. Also, even if it did cause pain, that might actually serve to improve the experience, at least for some people. Super Meat Boy could be called painful, but that's part of the experience and that's how it's meant to be.
But you just said it caused you pain! Now you change your mind?
Funny I tought that sentence like "No, I don't feel the pain." is quite easy to comprehend. Maybe it's my lack of understanding the fine nuances of english, but for me that sentence sounds pretty clear in it statement.
This here is what we call difference in opinions. For Scott reading Homestucks chatlog dialog causes physical pain, but it doesn't mean it causes it to everyone. In a same way while Scott might think that being dead and watching other people play in CS is a learning experiment it doesn't mean that for someone else it can be painfully boring.
But you just said it caused you pain! Now you change your mind?
No, he didn't say it caused him pain. Also, even if it did cause pain, that might actually serve to improve the experience, at least for some people. Super Meat Boy could be called painful, but that's part of the experience and that's how it's meant to be.
No, I don't feel the pain. Sometimes the logs get tedious and long and rambly, but if they ever start going towards painful I take a break and come back later.
Ok, so technically it doesn't cause him pain because he stops right before it is about to cause him pain. That's like saying, oh this acid doesn't burn. I spill it on myself and then wash it off really fast before it actually hurts. Then I repeat it later. That doesn't change the fact that the acid does indeed cause pain.
There is a such thing as masochism. Does anyone here want to admit to it? I can tell you that I am definitely not a fan of pain.
Ok, so technically it doesn't cause him pain because he stops right before it is about to cause him pain. That's like saying, oh this acid doesn't burn. I spill it on myself and then wash it off really fast before it actually hurts. Then I repeat it later. That doesn't change the fact that the acid does indeed cause pain.
Once again I will use an analogy, because I like those things and they let me explain things that I don't have words for.
So there was a time when I read the Watchmen (actually there has been multiple such times) and I sit there breezing through the pages of comicbook goodness then up comes one of the text bits, pages of words and no sequential art. Sometimes at that point I put the book down and decided to come back to it later. Why, because I was in comic reading mood in reading reading mood. It's like I was eating some candy off a bowl of delicious candy and suddenly someone throws and steak meal in front of me, just because I was eating some candy doesn't mean that I'm ready to take down a big steak meal.
On the eating analogy Homestuck would mostly be something like pizza it's good and yo can eat bunch of it, but at some point you are just too full of it and you don't feel like eating any more of the pizza, until you lay down a bit and then it's pizza time again.
I'm not sure if my point can be understood there, but I'm pretty sure that there is a point hidden in that rambling.
But you just said it caused you pain! Now you change your mind?
Funny I tought that sentence like "No, I don't feel the pain." is quite easy to comprehend. Maybe it's my lack of understanding the fine nuances of english, but for me that sentence sounds pretty clear in it statement.
I think that kind of clears up the general opinion with Homestuck. If you can work with the gimmicks of the insanity of the medium it works with, then you can freely enjoy it. I can see how that works. I wouldn't personally want to get into the series because of that, because I really don't like uber complex plotlines, and having to FORCIBLY re-read. I enjoy re-reading/watching stuff because I want to feel that enjoyment again.
To me, it's like drawing art on a tablet. If you can do that more comfortably than with pen and paper or using a mouse, than good. It's what you want to do. We'll stay happily within our own circles. Now Scott doesn't want to quit there, and now that's his issue. XD Homestuck either has to REALLY offend him to make him want to discourage others or it would have to be so big that it interferes with his personal space (Which for the latter, is not true)
I haven't read it and I don't think I'll enjoy it, so I won't be unfair. I'm mostly just being cautious.
The chat logs make the characters who they are, and give context to those videos and dramatic moments. You know that video you didn't understand? I understand it completely. It's fantastic and hilarious and awe-inspiring, because I have context. Because I put the time in.
I have a question for you, and honest one. Just how well read and well cultured are you? As in, how many truly great books have you read? How many truly great films have you seen? How many of the all time great comics have you read? I'm just wondering what your frame of reference is for saying Homestuck is fantastic, hilarious, and awe-inspiring. It would make sense to me if you thought it was great because you don't have much experience with things that are actually great.
If you've never ridden the 300' roller coaster it makes sense that you think the kiddie coaster is the best ever.
I started reading HG Wells at eight years old. I got a complete Shakespeare at 13 and can recite the speech from the Merchant of Venice from memory. In front of me right now a DVD collection of Alfred Hitchcock's best works. Three summers ago I watched the IMDB top 100. My collection of old sci-fi books is so large I keep it in three cardboard boxes in the basement because there isn't any room on the shelves. In my line of sight right now is Shogun, a Tale of Two Cities, and Moby Dick. Ever watched Twin Peaks? I have. I've played Shadow of the Colossus and I've beaten all the Megamans. Don't try to play the elitist game with me, Scott.
There is a such thing as masochism. Does anyone here want to admit to it? I can tell you that I am definitely not a fan of pain.
Yeah, I'll admit to it. But I don't see how that's relevant, considering a)It's not a bad thing like you're trying for here, and b)I'm never, ever, ever going to fuck you, or want to for that matter.
I have a question for you, and honest one. Just how well read and well cultured are you? As in, how many truly great books have you read? How many truly great films have you seen? How many of the all time great comics have you read? I'm just wondering what your frame of reference is for saying Homestuck is fantastic, hilarious, and awe-inspiring. It would make sense to me if you thought it was great because you don't have much experience with things that are actually great.
If you've never ridden the 300' roller coaster it makes sense that you think the kiddie coaster is the best ever.
Hey Sketch, lemmie give you the TLDR version of what Scott is saying : "I think I'm better than you, and therefore you're wrong. I must be better than you, after all, you like something that I dislike. I'm not actually trying to find a frame of reference for what you're saying, I'm just trying to establish myself as superior to you, so that you'll be wrong and go away. I can't win a matter of subjective opinion, so please just accept I'm better than you and go away."
There is a such thing as masochism. Does anyone here want to admit to it? I can tell you that I am definitely not a fan of pain.
Yeah, I'll admit to it. But I don't see how that's relevant, considering a)It's not a bad thing like you're trying for here, and b)I'm never, ever, ever going to fuck you, or want to for that matter.
I have a question for you, and honest one. Just how well read and well cultured are you? As in, how many truly great books have you read? How many truly great films have you seen? How many of the all time great comics have you read? I'm just wondering what your frame of reference is for saying Homestuck is fantastic, hilarious, and awe-inspiring. It would make sense to me if you thought it was great because you don't have much experience with things that are actually great.
If you've never ridden the 300' roller coaster it makes sense that you think the kiddie coaster is the best ever.
Hey Sketch, lemmie give you the TLDR version of what Scott is saying : "I think I'm better than you, and therefore you're wrong. I must be better than you, after all, you like something that I dislike. I'm not actually trying to find a frame of reference for what you're saying, I'm just trying to establish myself as superior to you, so that you'll be wrong and go away. I can't win a matter of subjective opinion, so please just accept I'm better than you and go away."
Oh, I know what he's saying. I just find it funny he'd attack me there, because I spent high school reading The Prince under my desk. You can't out elitist me; I am simply the most barely-adequate there is.
I think it's save to say that Apreche should find a doctor for his many afflictions. Before the day is over he might be in agonizing pain because a bird shat from a tree, in Asia.
Losing in CS is not suffering. Even though you are not winning, you are learning and growing. Reading those chat logs I'm pretty sure has been scientifically proven to kill brain cells, not teach you anything.
No_Opinions_Allowed.jpg
But I don't think Homestuck is worth consuming.
We know. You said that before. Subtly doing the same thing as Apreche isn't helping you know.
To be honest, me either, but I've already admitted as such. Now this thread is mostly just amusement at watching Scott suffer in his jocks because he can't say "Well, I don't get it or understand it, but fair enough if that's what you get from it", while going to greater and greater lengths to "Win" an argument that it is essentially impossible for him to win, no matter how clever, smart or dirty he fights.
Okay, I admit to poking the beehive a little too, but hey, nothing like a little audience participation to keep the show rolling.
Comments
Irrigation, seeds, crop rotation! It's all too much!
You are freakin' out, man!
Personally, I'm not sure if I would enjoy the story, because of the strange storytelling, the theme of trolling and the ironic sense of humor. They don't appeal to me at all, but what I would ask to the general fans of the series, is this. If the story were to be told in a conventional, simple webcomic without the gimmicks or specific design, could the story hold up on it's own?
I honestly don't think you could tell Homestuck's story in big Order of the Stick style pages and have it retain the same effectiveness. It'd probably be even more confusing. If you did it in three panel comics, the average reader would probably just start bleeding from the eyes.
The medium and format is as much a part of the story as anything else. It's like "The Monster at the End of the Book". If you adapted it into a different format, it would cease to be the same story. I guess it could be done in theory, but the results would be nonsensical.
Now, I read them to myself outloud in silly voices and generally have a great time with them. Especially whenever we get Jack Noir perspective and we get those awesome second-person conversations.
I consider them a major flaw as they are presented.
I think you'll understand that when something that is supposed to be entertaining inflicts actual physical suffering upon the audience that I rank it extremely low.
If you've never ridden the 300' roller coaster it makes sense that you think the kiddie coaster is the best ever.
Also, even if it did cause pain, that might actually serve to improve the experience, at least for some people. Super Meat Boy could be called painful, but that's part of the experience and that's how it's meant to be.
There is a such thing as masochism. Does anyone here want to admit to it? I can tell you that I am definitely not a fan of pain.
So there was a time when I read the Watchmen (actually there has been multiple such times) and I sit there breezing through the pages of comicbook goodness then up comes one of the text bits, pages of words and no sequential art. Sometimes at that point I put the book down and decided to come back to it later. Why, because I was in comic reading mood in reading reading mood. It's like I was eating some candy off a bowl of delicious candy and suddenly someone throws and steak meal in front of me, just because I was eating some candy doesn't mean that I'm ready to take down a big steak meal.
On the eating analogy Homestuck would mostly be something like pizza it's good and yo can eat bunch of it, but at some point you are just too full of it and you don't feel like eating any more of the pizza, until you lay down a bit and then it's pizza time again.
I'm not sure if my point can be understood there, but I'm pretty sure that there is a point hidden in that rambling.
To me, it's like drawing art on a tablet. If you can do that more comfortably than with pen and paper or using a mouse, than good. It's what you want to do. We'll stay happily within our own circles. Now Scott doesn't want to quit there, and now that's his issue. XD Homestuck either has to REALLY offend him to make him want to discourage others or it would have to be so big that it interferes with his personal space (Which for the latter, is not true)
I haven't read it and I don't think I'll enjoy it, so I won't be unfair. I'm mostly just being cautious.
But I don't think Homestuck is worth consuming.
Okay, I admit to poking the beehive a little too, but hey, nothing like a little audience participation to keep the show rolling.