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Another Health Care Thread

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  • I don't have much to say other than I'm surprised that Roberts was in the majority. I guess things aren't quite as polarized as they seemed.
    One thing I read was that Roberts is an astute student of history and he didn't want his court to be viewed in the same light as the court during the FDR era. He found the one Constitutional issue that he felt validated the mandate, the taxation clause, and went with it.
  • Maybe they know a decision against Obamacare had real potential to convert portions of the OWS protests (which are ubiquitous and ignored by the media) into riots.
    I think you're overestimating the potency of Occupy protestors. They're not nearly as cohesive as the protesters of the civil rights movement or as angry/desperate as the Vietnam protesters.
  • Either I'm reading bad journalism or confused. How can the mandate be unconstitutional yet the penalty stands? How do you penalize someone when the reason for the penalty does not exist?
  • Either I'm reading bad journalism or confused. How can the mandate be unconstitutional yet the penalty stands? How do you penalize someone when the reason for the penalty does not exist?
    The original justification (the Commerce Clause) for the penalty was ruled unconstitutional, but the penalty itself is okay under a different justification that can be inferred from the nature of the penalty.

    Basically, the Govt. argued that they had the right to impose the penalty via the Constitution's Commerce Clause, which gives Congress the right to regulate interstate commerce. The Court found that the Commerce Clause did not in fact give the right to Congress to impose the penalty.

    However, the penalty was structured as a tax. Since the Constitution does give Congress the right to impose taxes, as long as the penalty was structured as a tax, then it is legal and constitutional.

    If the penalty was instead structured as a civil fine akin to what you'd pay for littering or something, then it would've been unconstitutional.

  • So, basically, Congress has levied a tax to administer a national health care system. You can get that refunded by having a health insurance policy.
  • So, basically, Congress has levied a tax to administer a national health care system. You can get that refunded by having a health insurance policy.
    Which still isn't Socialist enough by far for my tastes but it's a decent start for a country with its head firmly up its own ass.
  • How will this affect employment in the health care industry?
  • edited June 2012
    Hopefully demand will increase as more people become insurable/insured. We should be seeing a small uptick already with college students being covered well into their twenties on their parents' plans, but it's not happening yet. I think the issue is a lack of any public campaign to get young people to use their benefits.

    I'm particularly interested because I'm halfway to an RN license (and I work in Healthcare IT right now).
    Post edited by muppet on
  • Are there any other specific taxes that are refunded for taking part in a specific activity? Not talking about general deductions but a specific tax that is offset by a specific deduction?
  • So, basically, Congress has levied a tax to administer a national health care system. You can get that refunded by having a health insurance policy.
    Which still isn't Socialist enough by far for my tastes but it's a decent start for a country with its head firmly up its own ass.
    It works for Switzerland.
  • Are there any other specific taxes that are refunded for taking part in a specific activity? Not talking about general deductions but a specific tax that is offset by a specific deduction?
    There's the Earned Income Tax Credit, which is for being poor.
  • Are there any other specific taxes that are refunded for taking part in a specific activity? Not talking about general deductions but a specific tax that is offset by a specific deduction?
    There's the Earned Income Tax Credit, which is for being poor.
    Doesn't that work in the opposite direction?

  • Woooooh, more tax deductions. Because it costs no time or money to handle all those things and the US still has a Triple-A credit rating and no enormous national debt that should've bankrupted the shit half a decade ago.

    Still waiting till I can buy my own piece of US from my government so I can build an outhouse.
  • Are there any other specific taxes that are refunded for taking part in a specific activity? Not talking about general deductions but a specific tax that is offset by a specific deduction?
    The homeowners tax deduction sucks for renters. In effect the government is "forcing" you to buy a home.

  • Still waiting till I can buy my own piece of US from my government so I can build an outhouse.
    I hear Greece has a pretty good deal going on. Or Spain. Italy soon too. In fact, when will the house of cards that is the Euro fall down?

  • Are there any other specific taxes that are refunded for taking part in a specific activity? Not talking about general deductions but a specific tax that is offset by a specific deduction?
    The homeowners tax deduction sucks for renters. In effect the government is "forcing" you to buy a home.
    They're placing incentives on activities they feel benefits the nation and the economy. Don't worry, Republicans are working tirelessly to take away every middle class deduction there is (and create more for corporations).

  • edited June 2012
    Woooooh, more tax deductions. Because it costs no time or money to handle all those things and the US still has a Triple-A credit rating and no enormous national debt that should've bankrupted the shit half a decade ago.
    As a percentage of GDP the U.S. debt isn't all that big by international standards. The Netherlands isn't so hot on that count either; Australia has you all beaten :P
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • Are there any other specific taxes that are refunded for taking part in a specific activity? Not talking about general deductions but a specific tax that is offset by a specific deduction?
    The homeowners tax deduction sucks for renters. In effect the government is "forcing" you to buy a home.
    Don't you get near my homeowners tax deduction :-p Houses drive the economy :-p
  • Without my homeowner's deduction, I'd be contributing even less to the consumer economy than I do now. It's how we catch up at the end of the year right now.
  • As a percentage of GDP the U.S. debt is smaller than, say, that of the Netherlands you know.

    On that note, Australia's is half as big as either, as a percentage.
    I'm aware, but at least we do shit about it, even though we have a lot less people to tax. Just picture how trivial it will be for the US to get its act together, they just refuse the fucking idiots.
  • Without my homeowner's deduction, I'd be contributing even less to the consumer economy than I do now. It's how we catch up at the end of the year right now.
    Try buying less Mac Minis.
  • Are there any other specific taxes that are refunded for taking part in a specific activity? Not talking about general deductions but a specific tax that is offset by a specific deduction?
    The homeowners tax deduction sucks for renters. In effect the government is "forcing" you to buy a home.
    Don't you get near my homeowners tax deduction :-p Houses drive the economy :-p
    A friend of mine is renting a shoebox in a subdivided condo in NYC. We figured that the owner will probably pay off that condo in 2-3 years based on the rent she's charging. That gives me a lot of incentive to buy a "home" in a city with lots of universities.
  • Still waiting till I can buy my own piece of US from my government so I can build an outhouse.
    I hear Greece has a pretty good deal going on. Or Spain. Italy soon too. In fact, when will the house of cards that is the Euro fall down?
    Nobody wants Greece, not even Greece. If you haven't noticed, there was debate about Greece going back to it's unstable and far shittier Drachma. As for the Euro, you'd have to nuke Germany first.
  • I'm aware, but at least we do shit about it, even though we have a lot less people to tax. Just picture how trivial it will be for the US to get its act together, they just refuse the fucking idiots.
    Oh, and it seems my figures were too old; the Netherlands is beating the U.S. soundly here. Sadly, the U.S. isn't capable of doing anything at all at the moment, given the political deadlock.

    Even this health care bill, as trivial as it may seem by the standards of the civilized world, was a pretty significant achievement given the ridiculous political situation.
  • edited June 2012
    As for the Euro, you'd have to nuke Germany first.
    Or just suggest that inflation is going to rise if they stick with it.

    Post edited by Andrew on
  • Without my homeowner's deduction, I'd be contributing even less to the consumer economy than I do now. It's how we catch up at the end of the year right now.
    Try buying less Mac Minis.
    Is this a nonsense contest now? Try shaving with a spork!
  • edited June 2012
    the Netherlands is beating the U.S. soundly here.
    103% of GDP vs. our 66% of GDP?
    As for the Euro, you'd have to nuke Germany first.
    Or just suggest that inflation is going to rise if they stick with it.
    You sick monster.
    Is this a nonsense contest now? Try shaving with a spork!
    Been there, done that. Prefer serrated plastic forks.
    Sadly, the U.S. isn't capable of doing anything at all at the moment, given the political deadlock.

    Even this health care bill, as trivial as it may seem by the standards of the civilized world, was a pretty significant achievement given the ridiculous political situation.
    What else is new.
    they just refuse the fucking idiots.
    Post edited by Not nine on
  • edited June 2012
    the Netherlands is beating the U.S. soundly here.
    103% of GDP vs. our 66% of GDP?
    Yep. Like I said, you're beating the U.S. soundly - or did you think a bigger number was better?
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • The best part is that even though the US economy looks like shit, everyone else's looks even worse. 10 Year U.S. treasure bonds are still considered the safest investment. Period.
  • The best part is that even though the US economy looks like shit, everyone else's looks even worse. 10 Year U.S. treasure bonds are still considered the safest investment. Period.
    I'm sure that's a real comfort to everyone still unemployed past the end of their benefits.
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