So here's my beef with this movie. Everything up to the Rey getting captured was pretty awesome, then out of nowhere we have the death planet (starkiller?). It's like they wrote a decent movie and then Disney demanded it had a death star sequence.
At least this Death Star did something different from the one in Jedi.
Was more powerful not different enough? Never mind that at the point when you can blow up a planet, what's the point of more power?
The problem is, people roll their eyes at weapons of mass destruction like the Dath Star, but they forget in the EU that superweapons were at the heart of the Tarkin Doctrine, so completely in character for the Empire and now the New Order. I think there was one that basically acted like the Ishimura from Dead Space and cracked planets to be used as resources, except the Empire had no qualms about using it on a planet that still had intelligent life on it.
So iv just seen Star Wars. I'm confuzzzzed. So 'the bad guy' is hansolos and princess Diana's son. But the film said darth vader is his grandad?!?! AND Luke and princess Diana were together at the end of return of the Jedi? And is that Ray surpose to be the daughter of luke skywalker ? Help?
As usual Star Wars: TFA's hold up to repeat viewing. The second time, I noticed the music more, was able to spend more time looking at the crazy aliens in the background, wonder about bit character moments and still get oddly emotional when Rei uses the force to pull the lightsaber to her. The last I think is some latent childhood want to be a Jedi and either the thought that I'm too old to be a new Jedi or just the happiness of someone figuring out their "destiny" not really sure.
I've seen a lot of talk about how Rey having a British accent is used as a cover-up for many of the language-related plot holes. Essentially, that accent signifies your are from a core world, are extremely educated and multilingual. It's not impossible that her being dumped off at like, age 5, plus being raised around nobody but droids and aliens, that she could pick up all those languages.
I've seen a lot of talk about how Rey having a British accent is used as a cover-up for many of the language-related plot holes. Essentially, that accent signifies your are from a core world, are extremely educated and multilingual. It's not impossible that her being dumped off at like, age 5, plus being raised around nobody but droids and aliens, that she could pick up all those languages.
But then I really don't care.
What!? So, English language = intelligence, therefore rich backstory...
What!? So, English language = intelligence, therefore rich backstory...
Not Language, accent. Very big difference.
Not that it matters much, the significance of accents in star wars is basically 100% fan wank, and really the accents are completely inconsistent. Wedge and Han are both from the same place, but the former has a scottish/english mix accent, and Han sounds like he's from chicago. Carrie Fisher manages to use both an English and American accent in the early films. Anakin goes from strong Colorado(child) to Canadian dipping in and out of a ropey English accent(prequels) to neutral with English pronunciation(James Earl Jones vader) to very British(Jedi, with his mask off). Obi-wan goes from English, to Scottish, to a (different) English. Mandalorians go between New Zealand and Australian, depending on the work. Lando sounds Texan, with a bit of California and a dollop of windies. The list goes on.
What!? So, English language = intelligence, therefore rich backstory...
Not Language, accent. Very big difference.
Not that it matters much, the significance of accents in star wars is basically 100% fan wank, and really the accents are completely inconsistent. Wedge and Han are both from the same place, but the former has a scottish/english mix accent, and Han sounds like he's from chicago. Carrie Fisher manages to use both an English and American accent in the early films. Anakin goes from strong Colorado(child) to Canadian dipping in and out of a ropey English accent(prequels) to neutral with English pronunciation(James Earl Jones vader) to very British(Jedi, with his mask off). Obi-wan goes from English, to Scottish, to a (different) English. Mandalorians go between New Zealand and Australian, depending on the work. Lando sounds Texan, with a bit of California and a dollop of windies. The list goes on.
In a galaxy full of aliens, droids speaking multiple languages and no one having any issue difficulty whatsoever without so much of a universal translator of any description whatsoever (apart from C3PO) accents literally don't mean shit.
In a galaxy full of aliens, droids speaking multiple languages and no one having any issue difficulty whatsoever without so much of a universal translator of any description whatsoever (apart from C3PO) accents literally don't mean shit.
Well, they kinda would in universe, in the same way that my Australian accent marks me as likely being Australian. But it's nowhere near consistent enough in the films to really mean much outside of whatever extra material people are making for that film universe.
Accent has no bearing on the narrative. Any evidence from the films to prove otherwise?
I'm saying it could - since despite being fan wank, they've shown willing to import that fan wank to buttress up the universe - but I think that right now it's so inconsistent and disorganized that the ship has sailed on that one, unless they want to drag the HMS Retcon in to port.
But I also don't think they were actually doing that in TFA, I think it's just the usual "We grabbed a bunch of actors, some of them are from different places" thing from all the other star wars movies.
Just saw it. It's alright. I was correct in not getting hyped.
Same for me, basically. I watched it a couple of hours ago. I did not get hyped and did not get spoiled. There were a bunch of nice moments in there, but you could definitely feel that this seemed more like a re-make than a story continuation, but hey you could think that after 39 years a movie was allowed to be re-made. It still walks an odd line stepping on both territories. It's a good movie, but to be quite honest I also have never been that much of a fan of the any Star Wars movie, including the original trilogy. They're fine films but I never got into it the way some other people are.
One thing I really liked is how diverse the cast is. At one point I came to the realization that the heroes in this film are a woman, a black man and a man in his 70s (approximately). All of them feel natural and integrated, and not in a way to fulfill a quota or appeal to a minority group. Maybe I am primed to notice this kind of stuff since I have perhaps payed a bit too much attention to media and diversity in it over the last year and a half. However, this brings me to the following which I find surprising to not have been discussed in this thread already.
One of the few things I knew beforehand is that Max Landis (whom I am admittedly a little bit obsessed with) considers Rey a Mary Sue and that he got into a huge Twitter fight over it, including him being called a sexist for expressing that view. When considering his full reasoning I can understand his point. However, I don't necessarily agree that the point itself is valuable in raising.
For one, I think he uses the wrong terminology as a Mary Sue implies that the character is a self-insert of the author for the purpose of wish-fulfillment, and that the character is awarded social status or acceptance by canon-characters that they have not earned or was implied to have been earned previously "off-screen". He never addresses the former part. The later is somewhat addressed by him explaining that Han Solo thinking that she's cool and wants to hire her is this, which I disagree with because Han has seen what she is capable of in their escape from the freighter.
More importantly however, there have been plenty of similar overpowered characters. Few people ever raise a stink about this kind of character if they are male. To Landis's credit he has pointed out with the problems with this kind of "good at everything, never fails" characters before even if they're male, most notably John Cena. The problem is that most people are not aware of this, and the fact that he misapplied the gender specific "Mary Sue" label also loaded the argument somewhat.
The most remarkable thing is that he got praised by MRA-types for his comments on Rey, and of course he spat back in their faces as any decent human should.
This is one of the problems with the just one canon homogenous universe thing disney chose to do - almost literally everything landis points out was already explained the the books that came out before TFA. IIRC - she's a good pilot, because she practiced in an old simulator she either found or borrowed. She's an good mechanic - aside from the part where we're explicitly shown that she's been scavenging old ships and the like to survive for the majority of her life - Because she's friends with and has been taught by a bunch of junkyard mechanics.
As for the force - Didn't Luke use the force with practically no training? Didn't Anakin, for that matter, in using the force to guide his reflexes as a 9 year old child? At no point has the force required training just to use it, only to refine the use of it. Think of it like, say, field sports - most people don't need to be trained how to just run, but running well enough for track and field requires training.
Yeah but these characters are essentially competing in a track and field event against a trained Olympian track runner. It's not to say that if you are born with supernatural speed and you just never ran for sport because it wasnt something you were exposed to, and then went up against someone trained in that sport who also has the abilities you do, one might compete well, but obviously the Olympian would have the upper hand.
The more I think about this, the more I'm liking the idea that after Kylo ditched Luke he probably hasn't had much in the way of a real-deal sparring partner with the lightsaber, so he's kinda just been seal clubbing for a while. Until now.
So an untrained force user, being somewhat adept in the saber and holding off Kylo Ren, isn't the worst offense.
I just need to reinforce for emphasis that Kyle Ren had just been shot in the gut with a weapon show repeatedly to be powerful enough to kill multiple people in a single shot. He's not at peak performance.
It's like running track and field against a trained Olympian track runner... after you shot him in both thighs with a 9mm.
I just need to reinforce for emphasis that Kyle Ren had just been shot in the gut with a weapon show repeatedly to be powerful enough to kill multiple people in a single shot. He's not at peak performance.
It's like running track and field against a trained Olympian track runner... after you shot him in both thighs with a 9mm.
That's how I believe the movie justified Kylo Ren's defeat, because he did get shot and Finn got a few hits in with the saber. Plus, I appreciated how they pointed out that the laser hilt is super useful when two people are clashing. They also point out that Kylo and Snoke are essentially the only dark jedi around and Snoke has never trained Kylo one-on-one. So we could get a pretty neat evolution from both characters.
Yeah but these characters are essentially competing in a track and field event against a trained Olympian track runner.
Except the part where Kylo isn't really that trained. He excels in raw power, but has pretty ropey control, and little finesse. He's like a runner with enormously powerful leg muscles, who doesn't know how to start from blocks, and keeps tripping over his own feet.
Turn it on it's head - people say, oh, he's obviously trained, he ripped information from people's heads with the force. Yes, but both of those scenes, they telegraph the passage of a decent amount of time. And in one case, was resisted by someone with no training, who had barely come into their force power, just by instinct.
The more I think about this, the more I'm liking the idea that after Kylo ditched Luke he probably hasn't had much in the way of a real-deal sparring partner with the lightsaber, so he's kinda just been seal clubbing for a while. Until now.
As far as it goes, other than Luke and the other Knights of Ren, who we don't know dick about, does anybody else in the galaxy even have and use a lightsaber? There are weapons that resist lightsabers, but I somehow can't see him off slumming it down with the troopers trying to get TR-8R to teach him sick spins.
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But then I really don't care.
Not that it matters much, the significance of accents in star wars is basically 100% fan wank, and really the accents are completely inconsistent. Wedge and Han are both from the same place, but the former has a scottish/english mix accent, and Han sounds like he's from chicago. Carrie Fisher manages to use both an English and American accent in the early films. Anakin goes from strong Colorado(child) to Canadian dipping in and out of a ropey English accent(prequels) to neutral with English pronunciation(James Earl Jones vader) to very British(Jedi, with his mask off). Obi-wan goes from English, to Scottish, to a (different) English. Mandalorians go between New Zealand and Australian, depending on the work. Lando sounds Texan, with a bit of California and a dollop of windies. The list goes on.
But I also don't think they were actually doing that in TFA, I think it's just the usual "We grabbed a bunch of actors, some of them are from different places" thing from all the other star wars movies.
One thing I really liked is how diverse the cast is. At one point I came to the realization that the heroes in this film are a woman, a black man and a man in his 70s (approximately). All of them feel natural and integrated, and not in a way to fulfill a quota or appeal to a minority group. Maybe I am primed to notice this kind of stuff since I have perhaps payed a bit too much attention to media and diversity in it over the last year and a half. However, this brings me to the following which I find surprising to not have been discussed in this thread already.
One of the few things I knew beforehand is that Max Landis (whom I am admittedly a little bit obsessed with) considers Rey a Mary Sue and that he got into a huge Twitter fight over it, including him being called a sexist for expressing that view. When considering his full reasoning I can understand his point. However, I don't necessarily agree that the point itself is valuable in raising.
For one, I think he uses the wrong terminology as a Mary Sue implies that the character is a self-insert of the author for the purpose of wish-fulfillment, and that the character is awarded social status or acceptance by canon-characters that they have not earned or was implied to have been earned previously "off-screen". He never addresses the former part. The later is somewhat addressed by him explaining that Han Solo thinking that she's cool and wants to hire her is this, which I disagree with because Han has seen what she is capable of in their escape from the freighter.
More importantly however, there have been plenty of similar overpowered characters. Few people ever raise a stink about this kind of character if they are male. To Landis's credit he has pointed out with the problems with this kind of "good at everything, never fails" characters before even if they're male, most notably John Cena. The problem is that most people are not aware of this, and the fact that he misapplied the gender specific "Mary Sue" label also loaded the argument somewhat.
The most remarkable thing is that he got praised by MRA-types for his comments on Rey, and of course he spat back in their faces as any decent human should.
As for the force - Didn't Luke use the force with practically no training? Didn't Anakin, for that matter, in using the force to guide his reflexes as a 9 year old child? At no point has the force required training just to use it, only to refine the use of it. Think of it like, say, field sports - most people don't need to be trained how to just run, but running well enough for track and field requires training.
The more I think about this, the more I'm liking the idea that after Kylo ditched Luke he probably hasn't had much in the way of a real-deal sparring partner with the lightsaber, so he's kinda just been seal clubbing for a while. Until now.
So an untrained force user, being somewhat adept in the saber and holding off Kylo Ren, isn't the worst offense.
It's like running track and field against a trained Olympian track runner... after you shot him in both thighs with a 9mm.
Turn it on it's head - people say, oh, he's obviously trained, he ripped information from people's heads with the force. Yes, but both of those scenes, they telegraph the passage of a decent amount of time. And in one case, was resisted by someone with no training, who had barely come into their force power, just by instinct.
Trained olympian? Fuck that, Kylo's a scrub. As far as it goes, other than Luke and the other Knights of Ren, who we don't know dick about, does anybody else in the galaxy even have and use a lightsaber? There are weapons that resist lightsabers, but I somehow can't see him off slumming it down with the troopers trying to get TR-8R to teach him sick spins.