Keep in mind, TR-8R and other Storm Troopers have those clubs to keep Kylo Ren in line if he starts getting out of control. The only people he can kill with his light saber are villagers on Tatooine. Also computer equipment.
Also, we see multiple times that Ren gets ragey and wildly beats up inanimate objects with his saber. Not exactly something that a person with formal training would be apt to do.
Keep in mind, TR-8R and other Storm Troopers have those clubs to keep Kylo Ren in line if he starts getting out of control. The only people he can kill with his light saber are villagers on Tatooine. Also computer equipment.
He has proven to be much more dangerous to computers than any living being so far.
I think I agree with Max Landis' argument for the Mary Sue-ness of Rey. She's good at too many things right out of the gate. Luke could fly things, because that's all there was to do on Tatoonie. Ok, she's had it rough so she knows how to fight, and she scavenges so she knows mechanical things. Fine, but then she flys the Millenium Falcon through a wrecked Star Destroyer. No fucking way, and then we just rachet up the force usage out of nowhere. Doesn't mean I didn't like her character, just that Max has a point. I think they weren't going to do all the force stuff in this movie, but they needed to light sabers and Starkiller base sets.
I think I agree with Max Landis' argument for the Mary Sue-ness of Rey. She's good at too many things right out of the gate. Luke could fly things, because that's all there was to do on Tatoonie.
Luke could fly an X-Wing combat fighter better than 80% of the entire rebel fleet at the end of Episode IV, yet had never flown a starship in his life. He didn't even have time for training.
I think I agree with Max Landis' argument for the Mary Sue-ness of Rey. She's good at too many things right out of the gate. Luke could fly things, because that's all there was to do on Tatoonie.
Luke could fly an X-Wing combat fighter better than 80% of the entire rebel fleet at the end of Episode IV, yet had never flown a starship in his life. He didn't even have time for training.
He also used the Force successfully the first time he needed to do so meaningfully, destroying the Death Star and saving the day.
While piloting the X-Wing he'd never flown before.
I think I agree with Max Landis' argument for the Mary Sue-ness of Rey. She's good at too many things right out of the gate. Luke could fly things, because that's all there was to do on Tatoonie.
Luke could fly an X-Wing combat fighter better than 80% of the entire rebel fleet at the end of Episode IV, yet had never flown a starship in his life. He didn't even have time for training.
He also used the Force successfully the first time he needed to do so meaningfully, destroying the Death Star and saving the day.
While piloting the X-Wing he'd never flown before.
I think I agree with Max Landis' argument for the Mary Sue-ness of Rey. She's good at too many things right out of the gate. Luke could fly things, because that's all there was to do on Tatoonie.
Luke could fly an X-Wing combat fighter better than 80% of the entire rebel fleet at the end of Episode IV, yet had never flown a starship in his life. He didn't even have time for training.
And before anyone says anything about Incom T-16s and bullseyeing womp rats, it don't work that way. Just because you can fly a light prop aircraft, doesn't mean you can fly a jet.
That's exactly my point, being unnaturally good at flying is basically his force power, but it's really his only power (aside from a 90 degree torpedo turn) that is used in the movie.
That's exactly my point, being unnaturally good at flying is basically his force power, but it's really his only power (aside from a 90 degree torpedo turn) that is used in the movie.
Rewatching A New Hope, I actually agree with the OPness of Rey as a character. In the original movie, every character fills a specific role. Breaking it down job wise, you have:
Luke - Adept Obi-Wan - Jedi (Who only fights Vader and tricks people) Han - Driver Chewie - Muscle Leia - Scout/Intel (Even as a damsel in distress, she does give vital info) C3PO - Interpreter R2D2 - Tech Hacker
She can both drive AND use force powers, which makes her pretty powerful as a character within the universe that often pegs characters within certain roles. And just like Luke, she was able to ride a ship that was thought to be broken when her experience was only hinted at as land hover-crafts. But this puts her in that power range of Kyle Katarn (Who everyone loves, myself included), not Starkiller.
I feel that one of the small strengths of The Force Awakens was that while it served as a "history repeats itself" reboot, the three new leads don't cleanly fit into the Luke/Leia/Han roles at all. The future can now go in many interesting directions.
My problem is that if we're going to presume she's not a Mary Sue for having incredible force powers right out of the gate, on top of everything else, then that makes Kylo Ren an outright pussy. Rey wrecks him in a battle of the minds, when his powers have been shown to extract any information he wanted. Rey beats Kylo Ren, a presumably at least briefly trained Force user, without any training and only having yesterday accepted that the Force is real.
Rey beats Kylo Ren, a presumably at least briefly trained Force user, without any training and only having yesterday accepted that the Force is real.
Did you miss the part of that fight where they have her calm down, get control, and start allowing the force to guide her actions, which is the point she started winning? I'm not sure how much clearer they could have been on that part without someone delivering a monologue about it down the barrel of the camera about it. It's her big "Use the force, Luke" moment.
Rey beats Kylo Ren, a presumably at least briefly trained Force user, without any training and only having yesterday accepted that the Force is real.
Did you miss the part of that fight where they have her calm down, get control, and start allowing the force to guide her actions, which is the point she started winning? I'm not sure how much clearer they could have been on that part without someone delivering a monologue about it down the barrel of the camera about it. It's her big "Use the force, Luke" moment.
Still quite a mighty feat when someone is poking around in your brain, and to get into Kylo's head when, again, he should be trained to resist such invasions, is an amazing accomplishment for someone who has no formal training to that point.
I can only presume Snoke is going to do a serious training montage with Kylo between the movies, because I'm now kinda sitting here like "goddamn he's a terrible villain at this point."
So at the end of this trilogy, does Kylo Ren have to die to pay for his actions, or does he get redeemed so that he can hang around and be a good guy in the next set of movies?
Kylo is great. Best thing about him is how much he can grow. He can grow as a person and as a villain. Having him be Darth Vader 2.0 right out of the bat would have been lot less interesting.
Still quite a mighty feat when someone is poking around in your brain, and to get into Kylo's head when, again, he should be trained to resist such invasions, is an amazing accomplishment for someone who has no formal training to that point.
I can only presume Snoke is going to do a serious training montage with Kylo between the movies, because I'm now kinda sitting here like "goddamn he's a terrible villain at this point."
Like I said before, the guy is all power, no finesse - He's smashing through those blocks. That's part of the power difference between him and Rey - He's power, she's finesse. She doesn't do any of the big power stuff, everything we see her do is pretty low-power, guided-by-the-force stuff - in fact, that resistance in the interrogation scene is the strongest we see her go, and we already know that the regular mind-trick only works on the weak-willed.
And remember, we saw earlier in the film, a scene with Poe being dug into, and it's set out in such a way that it implies it still took ren some time to get that information out, despite Poe having no force power at all.
Not to mention - with how few jedi(and sith, presumably) remain in the Galaxy, it could very well be the first time that he's actually come up against anyone who can actually offer any serious resistance.
Rei beats Kylo because Kylo was hit by a bowcaster (because he kills Han), sliced by a lightsaber (because he plays with his food with Fynn) and actually doesn't want to kill Rei (is attracted to her and wants to teach her the ways!) Rei wins when she calms down and closes her eyes and lets the force run through her...
Kylo's extremely powerful in the force as well, but he's not trained. Both he and Rei are pretty much loose force cannons, the only pluses for him is he's been at it longer.
Rei beats Kylo because Kylo was hit by a bowcaster (because he kills Han), sliced by a lightsaber (because he plays with his food with Fynn) and actually doesn't want to kill Rei (is attracted to her and wants to teach her the ways!) Rei wins when she calms down and closes her eyes and lets the force run through her...
Kylo's extremely powerful in the force as well, but he's not trained. Both he and Rei are pretty much loose force cannons, the only pluses for him is he's been at it longer.
We're talking before that, when he was attempting to interrogate Rey by using the same force technique he had used on Poe.
Yea, I figured it's kinda like telepathic characters in the X-men, some characters who have untrained skill are extremely hard to read by other telepaths and even untrained telepaths can be dangerous.
Judging by the comments here, it seems to me that the movie doesn't make it clear who has dis/advantage, when and why.
I'll agree with that. There's definitely a lot of stuff that you have to assume, or it gets a bit weird.
I think that is somewhat preferable to overexplaining. Like the force-mental-interregation, a long bit where two characters just silently stare at each other and one of them waives his hand around a bit. And from the little motions of the characters and the few lines afterwards you get what happened and it was enough of an explanation without any extra "I'm mind probing you now!" "No! I'm resisting." "How can you be so strong! Oh no!" -dialogue mixed in.
Judging by the comments here, it seems to me that the movie doesn't make it clear who has dis/advantage, when and why.
I'll agree with that. There's definitely a lot of stuff that you have to assume, or it gets a bit weird.
I think that is somewhat preferable to overexplaining. Like the force-mental-interregation, a long bit where two characters just silently stare at each other and one of them waives his hand around a bit. And from the little motions of the characters and the few lines afterwards you get what happened and it was enough of an explanation without any extra "I'm mind probing you now!" "No! I'm resisting." "How can you be so strong! Oh no!" -dialogue mixed in.
Overexplanation is a result of poor script writing and directing. There aren't enough subtleties in TWA to get what's going on without making assumptions.
Therefore ambiguities are in places where they really don't need to be.
For example: the mind reading battle between Rei and Kylo. Its clear she's resisting yes. If you look again it's literally just a staring contest.
The could have found a very simple way to illustrate that a mind battle was happening. Like a static hair effect. Using more 'force' would could cause more hair to stand on end.
Or even, some subtle light effects CGIed under the skin (might reason why there's a light/ dark side to the force) as mind powers focus and fluctuate.
Or even to actually show visually show what memories Kylo was trying to access only to have them fade away in a fog as Rei resists more. And when the battle is in her favour they could then show what memories of Kylo sje was able to 'see'.
But there isn't anything like that. They just stare at each other, then Rei is declared the winner. Slightly cringe worthy.
This review is so suspect. The reviewer keeps pointing out why it's good for fans and calls out references from the original.
Of course, the original fans will always be a huge part of the Star Wars galaxy. And there were delightful moments in The Force Awakens that were created for them: when Han makes a trash compactor joke and when Finn accidentally turns on the holographic chess game in the Millennium Falcon, not to mention Cantina 2.0 and all the fade transitions.
Why does that matter at all to a first time viewer? How does the reviewer know what the references are.
The reviewer doesn't really say why it was good for them personally. More for fans.
yea I was thinking the same when I read the review. but it was the only thing that came up when I searched for "Force Awakened is my first Star wars" or something like that. (all other results were George Lucas whining that people like this one more than his prequels.
Comments
While piloting the X-Wing he'd never flown before.
Luke - Adept
Obi-Wan - Jedi (Who only fights Vader and tricks people)
Han - Driver
Chewie - Muscle
Leia - Scout/Intel (Even as a damsel in distress, she does give vital info)
C3PO - Interpreter
R2D2 - Tech Hacker
She can both drive AND use force powers, which makes her pretty powerful as a character within the universe that often pegs characters within certain roles. And just like Luke, she was able to ride a ship that was thought to be broken when her experience was only hinted at as land hover-crafts. But this puts her in that power range of Kyle Katarn (Who everyone loves, myself included), not Starkiller.
I can only presume Snoke is going to do a serious training montage with Kylo between the movies, because I'm now kinda sitting here like "goddamn he's a terrible villain at this point."
And remember, we saw earlier in the film, a scene with Poe being dug into, and it's set out in such a way that it implies it still took ren some time to get that information out, despite Poe having no force power at all.
Not to mention - with how few jedi(and sith, presumably) remain in the Galaxy, it could very well be the first time that he's actually come up against anyone who can actually offer any serious resistance.
Kylo's extremely powerful in the force as well, but he's not trained. Both he and Rei are pretty much loose force cannons, the only pluses for him is he's been at it longer.
Edit:
Are there any reviews out there, for whom TWA, is the first Star Wars movie they've seen?
Therefore ambiguities are in places where they really don't need to be.
For example: the mind reading battle between Rei and Kylo. Its clear she's resisting yes. If you look again it's literally just a staring contest.
The could have found a very simple way to illustrate that a mind battle was happening. Like a static hair effect. Using more 'force' would could cause more hair to stand on end.
Or even, some subtle light effects CGIed under the skin (might reason why there's a light/ dark side to the force) as mind powers focus and fluctuate.
Or even to actually show visually show what memories Kylo was trying to access only to have them fade away in a fog as Rei resists more. And when the battle is in her favour they could then show what memories of Kylo sje was able to 'see'.
But there isn't anything like that. They just stare at each other, then Rei is declared the winner. Slightly cringe worthy.
Of course, the original fans will always be a huge part of the Star Wars galaxy. And there were delightful moments in The Force Awakens that were created for them: when Han makes a trash compactor joke and when Finn accidentally turns on the holographic chess game in the Millennium Falcon, not to mention Cantina 2.0 and all the fade transitions.
Why does that matter at all to a first time viewer? How does the reviewer know what the references are.
The reviewer doesn't really say why it was good for them personally. More for fans.