Yes, you use datasucker/wyrm/ice carver to bring the strength of the ICE down to zero when you encounter it to destroy it when the parasite is installed rather than waiting for the parasite to slowly do its work.
Remember the following:
Like any other icebreaker, Wyrm can only affect a piece of ICE when its strength is equal or greater than the strength of the ICE. So you have to get Wyrm's strength up first, then lower the strength of the ICE.
If it's a tollbooth or a data raven, you still have to deal with the tag or toll portion of the ICE before the parasite kills it.
Ice carver only brings the strength of the ICE down when you encounter it. So a strength 4 ICE with 3 counters on a parasite won't die on its own. But if you run it while ICE carver is installed, then it will die.
The weakness of this whole strategy is the corp can clear virus counters. Sometimes the corp forgets (guilty!) and then you win. Other times they always remember, and it is very hard.
Use doppleganger to fill your datasuckers with those free extra runs, usually on empty archives.
If it's a tollbooth or a data raven, you still have to deal with the tag or toll portion of the ICE before the parasite kills it.
But don't runner encounters resolve before corp encounters? That's how femme fatale and inside job work, no? Data sucker says "encountered ice" so I thought you can trash first and not pay toll.
If it's a tollbooth or a data raven, you still have to deal with the tag or toll portion of the ICE before the parasite kills it.
But don't runner encounters resolve before corp encounters? That's how femme fatale and inside job work, no? Data sucker says "encountered ice" so I thought you can trash first and not pay toll.
Femm Fatale lets you bypass the ICE, you never encounter it because you bypass on approach. The parasites and datasuckers work when icebreakers work, which means you encountered the ICE and had to deal with the booth/raven.
The text of femme fatale says "when you encounter that ice". Similarly, inside job says "encountered ice". So it seems inconsistent. But the official FAQ agrees with you. ):
The text of femme fatale says "when you encounter that ice". Similarly, inside job says "encountered ice". So it seems inconsistent. But the official FAQ agrees with you. ):
The rules are written so poorly. They need a rulebook 2.0 so badly, and they really need someone much better to edit the card text with much more precise language.
Also watch out for chum. Put chum in front of an ICE that just got femme'd. Then if they want to use their femme, they have to either break the chum, take the damage, or break the ice they femme'd the old fashioned way.
You're more pissed about this than the time I got you back into Magic.
The text of femme fatale says "when you encounter that ice". Similarly, inside job says "encountered ice". So it seems inconsistent. But the official FAQ agrees with you. ):
The rules are written so poorly. They need a rulebook 2.0 so badly, and they really need someone much better to edit the card text with much more precise language.
What they need (and reletively fast) is a Netrunner equivilent of Wizard's Oracle/Gatherer: a central repository for rulings about the cards, and a place where they can post errata'd wordings.
Yeah. Magic took many years before they got their rules in order. Some people see that as a valid excuse for Netrunner's rules issues. Other people point at Fantasy Flight's lack of resources as an excuse, and indeed FF is a lot smaller than Hasbro.
I disagree on both those points. It's not hard to clarify these gaping rules issues. If they would just tell me the rulings, I could probably fix all the card text and rule book inside of a week. Then setup a simple WordPress blog that posts official rules in real time in response to hot threads in the BGG Netrunner rules forum. Lukas apparently has time to email rulings to people, it isn't much harder to spend 10 minutes to write a very precisely worded blog post instead of an email.
As for the resources, stop being so cheap. This game is a smash hit. They are getting plenty of money from it. The competitive scene is growing. Netrunner can easily be the third biggest card game after Magic and Pokemon, if it isn't already. If you don't support it with proper rules instead of just swag, the competitive scene will only tolerate it for so long. The amount of investment required to get the rules right is very very small. It's the cost of a web site and a portion of a single employee's time to write rules properly. That's very inexpensive, and the return on that investment will be very large.
I basically agree with everything you said. There's already a model for how to successfully create the exact thing this game needs. The only possible worry could be people proxying cards, but full scans of this shit are already online, and Wizards has slightly more to lose than FF in the "People proxying shit" arena.
I basically agree with everything you said. There's already a model for how to successfully create the exact thing this game needs. The only possible worry could be people proxying cards, but full scans of this shit are already online, and Wizards has slightly more to lose than FF in the "People proxying shit" arena.
People are already playing for free on OCTGN with completely downloaded cards, and FFG knows about it. So that doesn't even register.
Scott, it's obvious then. Go to FF and work for them part time to work on rules.
They probably won't pay me enough, but there are other people out there who are actually better than I am and cheaper. Programmers in NYC cost a lot more than rulebook editors in Minnesota.
Finally a card to purge virus counters and at a cost of 0. FUCK!
Also that Jinteki Ice is sick. Just plain sick.
It's not that sick. It's a strength 2 sentry. If you let it go off, it's a Neural Katana that costs 2 more to rez. It really just punishes people running Creeper instead of Pipeline, Femme Fatale, Ninja, or Mimic. Not too shabby with a chum in front of it, though.
The virus clearing card I don't think is worth it. You put a whole card in your deck that will save you two clicks once. If the runner doesn't play viruses, it's a wasted card slot. Corp card slots are already really tight.
I'm hoping they release a box that's all of Genesis cycle to help us catch up.
It's not that sick. It's a strength 2 sentry. If you let it go off, it's a Neural Katana that costs 2 more to rez. It really just punishes people running Creeper instead of Pipeline, Femme Fatale, Ninja, or Mimic. Not too shabby with a chum in front of it, though.
This ice also has an end-the-run, though, and splits the damage across four subroutines so it still costs slightly more to break. Also, looking at the rules, the Runner can't break ice after subroutines start triggering, so it's not like the Corp has to pay a credit and then the Runner breaks the damage ones.
It's not that sick. It's a strength 2 sentry. If you let it go off, it's a Neural Katana that costs 2 more to rez. It really just punishes people running Creeper instead of Pipeline, Femme Fatale, Ninja, or Mimic. Not too shabby with a chum in front of it, though.
This ice also has an end-the-run, though, and splits the damage across four subroutines so it still costs slightly more to break. Also, looking at the rules, the Runner can't break ice after subroutines start triggering, so it's not like the Corp has to pay a credit and then the Runner breaks the damage ones.
But if the corp doesn't have a dollar, you can just smack into it and the run will end. Unlike neural katana which can deal damage from a broke corp.
Under what circumstances would someone be making that run in the first place, if they know they can't break through it? I can only foresee that happening if the corp just rezzed it and spent all their credits.
Under what circumstances would someone be making that run in the first place, if they know they can't break through it? I can only foresee that happening if the corp just rezzed it and spent all their credits.
Exactly. Those early game runs where you are just trying to force the corp to spend their credits rezzing their ice. Imagine if the first turn the corp installs two ice, one of which is this new one and then they take a credit. They have exactly 6. You run into the ICE. They can rez it to keep you out of the server, but can't pay the 1 to make you take damage.
I don't understand why the Corp would want to pay 1. It says End the run UNLESS the Corp pays 1. I would understand it if it said End the run IF the Corp pays 1. Also, regarding the discussion with Femme Fatale, she says you may pay 1 credit per subroutine to bypass it. You don't have to match the strength, but you still have to "break" it. Femme is more or less a wild card vs one Ice in play.
I don't understand why the Corp would want to pay 1. It says End the run UNLESS the Corp pays 1. I would understand it if it said End the run IF the Corp pays 1. Also, regarding the discussion with Femme Fatale, she says you may pay 1 credit per subroutine to bypass it. You don't have to match the strength, but you still have to "break" it. Femme is more or less a wild card vs one Ice in play.
Because if you end the run, then those three net damage subroutines won't happen. Basically, if the runner runs into it without breaking or bypassing, the corp can decide to end the run (for a credit) OR do three net damage and let the run continue. Considering Jinteki has so few end the run ICE, this plays right into their bluffing game. Maybe you end the run when there is a trap behind it, hoping to get the runner to use an inside job to fall into a junebug. Maybe let the three damage happen when there is a Fetal AI behind it, hoping for a kill, or hoping the runner will jack out afterwards.
Comments
Remember the following:
Like any other icebreaker, Wyrm can only affect a piece of ICE when its strength is equal or greater than the strength of the ICE. So you have to get Wyrm's strength up first, then lower the strength of the ICE.
If it's a tollbooth or a data raven, you still have to deal with the tag or toll portion of the ICE before the parasite kills it.
Ice carver only brings the strength of the ICE down when you encounter it. So a strength 4 ICE with 3 counters on a parasite won't die on its own. But if you run it while ICE carver is installed, then it will die.
The weakness of this whole strategy is the corp can clear virus counters. Sometimes the corp forgets (guilty!) and then you win. Other times they always remember, and it is very hard.
Use doppleganger to fill your datasuckers with those free extra runs, usually on empty archives.
Also watch out for chum. Put chum in front of an ICE that just got femme'd. Then if they want to use their femme, they have to either break the chum, take the damage, or break the ice they femme'd the old fashioned way.
I disagree on both those points. It's not hard to clarify these gaping rules issues. If they would just tell me the rulings, I could probably fix all the card text and rule book inside of a week. Then setup a simple WordPress blog that posts official rules in real time in response to hot threads in the BGG Netrunner rules forum. Lukas apparently has time to email rulings to people, it isn't much harder to spend 10 minutes to write a very precisely worded blog post instead of an email.
As for the resources, stop being so cheap. This game is a smash hit. They are getting plenty of money from it. The competitive scene is growing. Netrunner can easily be the third biggest card game after Magic and Pokemon, if it isn't already. If you don't support it with proper rules instead of just swag, the competitive scene will only tolerate it for so long. The amount of investment required to get the rules right is very very small. It's the cost of a web site and a portion of a single employee's time to write rules properly. That's very inexpensive, and the return on that investment will be very large.
I question your motives, SIR.
http://fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4134
Also that Jinteki Ice is sick. Just plain sick.
The virus clearing card I don't think is worth it. You put a whole card in your deck that will save you two clicks once. If the runner doesn't play viruses, it's a wasted card slot. Corp card slots are already really tight. Don't hold your breath.
Also, regarding the discussion with Femme Fatale, she says you may pay 1 credit per subroutine to bypass it. You don't have to match the strength, but you still have to "break" it. Femme is more or less a wild card vs one Ice in play.