This forum is in permanent archive mode. Our new active community can be found here.

GeekNights Monday - That Penny Arcade Job Posting

Tonight on GeekNights, we consider the technical/skill requirements of one Penny Arcade job posting. We talk about how to learn how to set up that most dreaded of services: email. RMS proves that Bitcoin has finally "made it" by calling for an anonymous alternative. Amazon reveals its (entirely unsurprising) plans for drone deliveries, further casting into stark contrast the progress of technology and the inability of government and society to keep up. Rym is back from Istanbul and has photos to share.

Download MP3
Source Link
«13

Comments

  • Rym! Stop being an idiot about Istanbul waterways!

    1. Before you went to Turkey, you said you'd be eating Thanksgiving in a restaurant overlooking "the Bosphorus, one of the most famous rivers in the world!" But, of COURSE, the Bosphorus isn't a river. Idiot! It's a strait.

    2. The Great Chain didn't stretch across the Bosphorus! It stretched across the Golden Horn, which is the wide river mouth on one side of the old city. It's the old harbor. The Byzantines didn't want invaders to enter their harbor. A chain across the Bosphorus would have been super impressive, but completely useless for stopping ships getting into the harbor. Unless they used two chains.... no wait, even then that wouldn't have worked.
  • Wait Bitcoin ISN'T the hyper-libertarian anonymous non-fiat currency it was sold as? Fuck time to buy out!
  • Re: Amazon Prime Air

    I'm also amazed at the reaction to this one. First, I agree with the armchair technologists who can only find the lowest hanging problems which are trivially solved if you use your brain for two minutes, and consider that how it might work is slightly different than how it works in your head right now. For example:

    Everyone presumes "unmanned drones" means "100% automatic and controlled by computer". And then they start asking questions about safely landing and not hitting children.

    My first thought: 90% of the service and flight is automated. Then the drone hovers above the landing spot, pointing a camera down. The remote operator takes a look, checks for anyone around, clicks okay or abort, and the drone lands, drops the package and leaves. The final dropping of the package, from 20 ft (out of reach of all humans) down to the ground and up again takes four or five seconds. As long as any children of people are more than four or five seconds away from the landing spot, nobody can get hurt. This way the operator is just doing final safety checks, not flying single individual drones. One operator would be able to run a dozen or so of these drones at once.

    Second, I'm not sure why everyone is saying this is five to ten years off. All it takes is one city to do what Rym and Scott said, and just get it working themselves.

    My prediction (and I'd put money on it) is that between one and two years we'll see a real-life implementation of drone-delivered goods in an urban, or more likely suburban, environment. It might be by Amazon, but it could be a single local service or retailer.

    I think the city in America that could benefit the most would be Kansas City. They've already got some Google Fiber, and inviting Amazon to experiment on them with drones would make it into a real city of the future. The city is very sprawling (way bigger than needed for its population) and every building has plenty of space around it for drone landings. It's big enough to have its own Amazon distribution center (probably) but spaced out enough that deliveries by road would take ages.

    Anyone want to take my bet?
  • edited December 2013
    It's going to be somewhat troublesome, though - those drones don't fly very far, nor very fast. They promise "30 minutes or less" delivery, but that's maybe within a mile or ten(at absolute most, with unusually but not unrealistically fast and long range drones) of their fulfillment centers, and while that's great because they have a ton of fulfillment centers, there's also the problem that a ten mile radius of their current fulfillment centers is still fuck-all. Either they're going to have to build a shit-ton of warehouses, or it's going to be a pointless novelty for a small few.

    I mean, they could have some crazy extended range drones if they wanted, but there's a point of diminishing returns on that - the longer range it is, the heavier it is, and the less range per step up you get, and the greater the cost per drone for it.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • Again, instead of thinking you are clever for pointing out a problem, why not prove you are clever by proposing a solution to that problem?

    Let me try. Problem: "Drones don't fly very far."

    Reframing outside of the way it works in your head: Who says they have to fly all the way from the fulfillment center all the way to the final destination without stopping?

    Solution: a number of stations across a city, in a hex grid every two miles, where a drone can touch down, drop off a spent battery, and pick up a full charged battery. It'll be on its way within maybe ten or fifteen seconds. Even the Tesla Model S can do the same trick in 90 seconds. If the battery swapping stations were on the top of tall buildings or other high points in a city, they wouldn't even have to spend time or energy coming down to ground level that often.

    That objection is trivially solved using known technical fixes. Next!

    No, I'm serious, has anyone got any other problems with this technology? It's way more fun to find solutions than problems.
  • edited December 2013

    Again, instead of thinking you are clever for pointing out a problem, why not prove you are clever by proposing a solution to that problem?

    Because, to be frankly honest, I'm unreasonably drunk and I doubt I could find a clever solution to a solved problem, let alone something like drone range and the problem of diminishing returns re: range and delivery infrastructure.

    But I like your solution though. Sounds about right.

    Post edited by Churba on
  • Problem: "Churba is drunk."

    Reframing: "Why should Churba not be drunk?"

    Solution: Churba should stay drunk.
  • Problem: "Drones aren't very fast, so can't get far in 30 minutes."

    Reframing: "Maybe the 30 minutes number is marketing spin. How long would it really take?"

    Solution: To sign up for the drone delivery you'd have to submit a drone landing spot in advance. When you click on the "Fastest delivery possible" button, Amazon will know the exact distance between where the thing you want delivering is now and that landing spot. Amazon will check the routing options, flight time, weather, how busy the drones are, plus other factors, and say "We can deliver it in 52 minutes. Shall we do it?" You can always click the "Same day" or "Next day" option instead.

    Live near to a distribution center? Good news! It might be 18 minutes for you. Live a long way off? It'll probably be easier to have it delivered by human in a vehicle.
  • I live in Louisville Kentucky. There are two distribution centers within that 30 minute window they're proposing. Likely what they'll do is set up more centers just for Prime Air.
  • I think distribution centers and fulfillment centers are different things, so change the words in my above post to the right one.
  • I don't think there is a difference at all, just semantics. "Fulfilling" your order sounds a lot friendlier and less corporate than "distributing" your order.
  • edited December 2013
    Maybe. All goods go through distribution centers, but a fulfillment center is where they pick things off shelves and put them in boxes. Maybe.

    Edit: from here
    The difference between a DC, distribution center and fulfillment center is ultimately who the customer is that each center is working towards. The DC’s main customer are typically retail shops or other businesses who attend on selling the merchandise coming from the DC to another customer either directly or part of another product like what is found in manufacturing processes.

    Wal-Mart use DC’s to get product to their retail stores who then typical sell to the individual customer. Amazon.com on the other hand is, a prime example of who use fulfillment center. Fulfillment centers are where products are picked and then are sent directly to the end customer. DC usually deals in cases or bulk shipments while fulfillment centers usually deal with EA (eachs).
    Post edited by Luke Burrage on
  • I think the genuine issues with the drone idea are predominantly regulatory ones, but I think those issues alone could easily hold the whole thing up for several years. In particular, the FAA could hold things up.

    If regulators are cooperative, though, I don't see much of a reason that it couldn't happen within a couple of years.
  • Problem: "Regulatory approval will take time."

    Reframing: "Who gives a shit about the FAA?"

    Solution: I'm sure there are loads of non-USA places where this could be tested within new regulations before the FAA get around to coming up with the right regulation.

    Off the top of my head, why not do a test run in Monaco? It's a little nation of its own, can regulate its own airspace as it wants, is difficult to get around with vehicles, has many apartments and other towers, has a heliport. I'm sure people there would be willing to pay the extra for drone delivery too.
  • Churba said:

    Again, instead of thinking you are clever for pointing out a problem, why not prove you are clever by proposing a solution to that problem?

    Because, to be frankly honest, I'm unreasonably drunk and I doubt I could find a clever solution to a solved problem, let alone something like drone range and the problem of diminishing returns re: range and delivery infrastructure.

    But I like your solution though. Sounds about right.

    i lol'd
  • Is this whole "Problem - Reframing - Solution" a new thing for you Luke? Because I dig it.
  • It's a good recurring response. 9/10.
  • Is this whole "Problem - Reframing - Solution" a new thing for you Luke? Because I dig it.

    I came up with that exact presentation for this thread. It's something I use for creative stuff all the time.
  • "Most people..." - Rym
  • $150,000 for that job is a little unreasonable. If you took out the on call nonsense you'd be worth about $85k in Seattle. This isn't shithouse New York.
  • Is this whole "Problem - Reframing - Solution" a new thing for you Luke? Because I dig it.

    I came up with that exact presentation for this thread. It's something I use for creative stuff all the time.
    It's an excellent process. I like to investigate and "map" answers, but this is a good way to develop a creative solution.

    Do you have a newsletter?

  • I think the political climate in the US is one that's not going to allow such visible corporate/civilian use of drones anytime in the near future, and I think Bezos knows it. I think this was primarily an attempt at hours and hours of free advertising in the MSM and all over the internet right at the peak of online Christmas shopping season.

    I don't agree with the nonsense going around about trying to deflect attention from some expose book written about Bezos recently. They carry the fucking book on Amazon and as far as I can tell, most of the attention on the thing is due to Bezos' wife deigning to write a review of it in the first place.
  • NYC or any other city in the US lacks the authority to allow commercial drone use in the air above it simply because all airspace in the US is regulated by the FAA.

    I for one do not want to see unregulated or free for all use of drones in cities, one of the principle functions of the airspace in the US is the guarantee of safe corridors of flight for aircraft under instrument conditions.

    Additionally, as an EMS pilot who lands in cities for calls I don't want to hit a drone of any size.

    How high are these drones flying? Are we talking 20 feet of the ground, 75 feet? 150 feet? 500 feet? Each of those altitudes has a different concern and danger associated with it that has to be addressed. I don't love the FAA, but they are the correct agency for getting these issues of commercial drone use sorted properly for all the parties that use the sky.

    The well regulated use of drones is the future, I can easily envision a day where drones are used to fight fires, monitor power lines, fly for police departments, do survey work, search and rescue, etc etc.
  • Thanks for talking about Ponies a little bit in this episode!
    And I love RadioFree Equestria, so feel free to make more videos, your analysis style is a lot better than most of the videos the MLP analysis community puts out.
  • I thought that the magic for the potion was going to be super bad news too, so I would be interested in a new RFE as well.
  • I can predict that Deer Trail Colorado WON'T be the first place with Amazon Prime Air.
  • edited December 2013
    Re: Rym's comment suggesting a "get a desperate local government on your side" approach: the medical marijuana industry tried it in Oakland. It isn't going too well for them, at least in the short term.

    Kind of interesting to hear your thoughts on the BA/BS degree. Does enough experience ever make up that gap for you? On the flip side, I've heard some stories out here in SF about people who have chips on their shoulders about not having a degree or preferring to hire people without degrees. It's something I'm thinking about as I plan to move into web development full time but don't really want to spend multiple years back in school.

    Post edited by Nissl on
  • Few jobs are going to stretch you in all areas. Rym and Scott have both ended up specializing in a few fields but have a college level grounding in a bunch of stuff.

    Even though I never got to go to college, I've been trying to round out my base knowledge of IT and some coding. At this point I could probably apply for the IT guy of a small office but I'd still need to do a lot of looking up.
    May not sound like much, but I consider it a massive success considering where I've come from.
  • At this point, I'm not sure if Rym is leaving that post-outro song in because he thinks it's amusing or he's simply forgotten that it's still being put into each episode.

    It's still fairly catchy in any case.
  • edited December 2013
    Omnutia said:

    At this point I could probably apply for the IT guy of a small office but I'd still need to do a lot of looking up.

    Dude, like 90% of IT (especially when starting out) is looking up stuff. If you are moderately technical, good at communicating, and very capable of research on Google, you are highly qualified for the majority of entry-level (and even higher-level) IT jobs. Go for it!

    -EDIT- Hell, if you have the communication skills, you're already better than the majority of IT grunts out there.

    Post edited by ProfPangloss on
Sign In or Register to comment.