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When did "magic: the gathering" jump the shark?
... and why?
I've heard Rym and Scott mentioning a couple of times, that they stopped playing magic a long time ago (don´t remember which episode they said it, and which edition they stopped.) And I noticed there are a lot of ex-magic-players that show nostalgia towards old editions, but feel magic jumped the shark at some point.
I would like to know the different editions people stopped playing magic, and why. Especially if you are someone who cares about game design. I feel that the concept of magic changes all the time, even though the rules are relatively the same with every edition change.
I've heard Rym and Scott mentioning a couple of times, that they stopped playing magic a long time ago (don´t remember which episode they said it, and which edition they stopped.) And I noticed there are a lot of ex-magic-players that show nostalgia towards old editions, but feel magic jumped the shark at some point.
I would like to know the different editions people stopped playing magic, and why. Especially if you are someone who cares about game design. I feel that the concept of magic changes all the time, even though the rules are relatively the same with every edition change.
Comments
Once I figured that out, I realized what I really wanted was a customizable card game that was not collectible. Fantasy Flight made many such games, called LCGs, without me even realizing it. I didn't notice until they made Netrunner. And now Netrunner is my thing.
If you bought all of Netrunner right now it would be like 200+ dollars, that's more then I ever spent on Magic cards :-p
Still, my experience is the opposite of yours. Over the course of a year, I've spent a total of $270 on Netrunner including sleeves. I currently play 4-5 hours a week at meetups. In another life, I used to split cases of Magic cards that cost that much with my roommate every three months, and spent a lot of time worrying about and managing my collection instead of playing the game.
I'll still participate in a M:tG Draft if I'm offered. No more constructed, though. Netrunner and now Hearthstone have dealt the game a 1-2 punch for me.
However, it is a somewhat expensive hobby. Yes, you will have to spend some money. However, there are measures and strategies in how to allocate that money. For example, I primarily play two formats: Limited and EDH. Limited is a format where you play with the cards you open from sealed booster packs at the site of the tournament. This of course has a cost, but I consider this the entry fee. You can also keep the cards you buy there, sell or trade them.
EDH (Elder Dragon Highlander) a.k.a. Commander is an eternal formats. I've built decks and will keep those decks with some tweaks and updates over the years, as no cards rotate out of the format and thus I am not forced to replace them or even see my deck become entirely illegal. I'm also currently trying to build a somewhat competitive Modern deck. However, this format is also eternal, meaning the card pool only grows and cards for the most part keep their value. I consider this kind of a one-time investment, with the possibility to make my money back, or perhaps even make some money from it if I ever decide to get rid of those cards.
Do people still call it EDH, or has 'Commander' finally won out?
Net runner at least has a lower set price ceiling to have all available options. I will say, I didn't play the game enough to justify following it. I guess by strict definition it can be pay to win, but at least the cost is a known factor. I'd consider it basically the entry fee to get into the poker tournament (though for some reason we will still allow people to enter for less, and start with less chips, which really messes up the tournament fairness to all players and so-on).
Admittedly, most MTG also has a price ceiling to be fully competitive in most modes of play. I have no problem with an MTG draft or something similar. So it still can be played pay-to-win or not.
Dominion on the other hand, as another somewhat related game, absolutely does not have that pay-to-win component. New expansions may change the game, and experience or at least knowledge of all the cards and interactions incurred by all the expansions will let you win games, but since everyone is always playing from the same set of cards it's not pay-to-win.
People who have more real world wealth necessarily have a competitive advantage in any endeavour, including games.
The key things to watch out for are:
1) The paying is going to the publisher/officiator of the game.
2) The limit on how much you can pay the publisher/officiator to gain an advantage is very high or unlimited.
3) The amount of money spent on the game is a greater indicator of success than other factors.
4) Spending time (instead of money) on the game is rewarded with explicit in-game advantages (levels, equipment, etc.) in addition to the usual benefits of spending time on a game (i.e: practicing).
Netrunner is just as much pay to win as cycling and golf. Yeah, the equipment you need to play can be moderately expensive. Yes, more expensive, optional, and potentially superior equipment is available. If you spend a bit more than someone else you may have an advantage over them. Someone who plays Netrunner with just a core set is like someone playing in the US open with crappy old golf clubs, or someone riding in the Tour de France with a steel frame bike.
Farmville, if you can even call it a "game" is the extreme other end. Whoever has spent more time and money is better. Period. There is no limit on what you can spend.
M:TG lies somewhere in the middle. There is a limit on what you can spend, but it is ludicrously high. Spending alone doesn't grant victory. You could give me the grand champion's M:TG deck, and I would not win without practicing, studying, and building my skills.
The other key thing to look for is how much the spending matters. Consider two players. The novice and the champ. The novice knows the rules of the game, but hasn't practiced enough or gained a deep understanding of high level strategies. The champ is the champ.
Obviously in either M:TG or Netrunner it is possible to make completely garbage decks. They won't win no matter who uses them, so let's consider decent decks vs. championship decks.
In M:TG a novice with a decent deck will get crushed. A novice with a championship deck can do pretty well. M:TG champs with decent decks will do decently, but will probably lose to novices or average players with better decks. In Netrunner a novice with either deck will be completely demolished. The champs will rise to the top no matter what deck they have. Only against the other champs will their lackluster deck start to hurt them.
The point is that spending matters more in M:TG than it does in Netrunner.
In the right format, it's still a great game.
It's not how I want to spend my time and money, though.
The collectible aspect of things definitely made it needlessly costly.
I'm more interested in games like Dominion, where we have deck building from a common pool. Of course, you could totally hack Magic to be like that, and it might be amazing.
Definitely less expensive than fucking Warhammer, though, so I'm not really judging how anyone chooses to spend their money. Fuckin' 50 dollars for a few dolls? Why did I ever think that was a good idea?
I still remember what a Hecatomb card smells like...
Man, you go right for the throat.
Did anyone ever play the L5R CCG? I always liked the setting, but I never really played the game at all.
Schwarz is interesting just because of the theme. All the Vocaloid and Madoka characters. ZOMG.
Also, if he's just distributing, who is is translating, printing, publishing, marketing, etc.?
They also had a brief stint at Weiß Schwarz and called the rules pointlessly convoluted.
Why can't tabletop games of licensed properties be good?